PFS Summoner and spells help

[Gonn]

Hello guys and gals, I'm making a new character (a Summoner) for pathfinder society and I was wondering if I could ask a few questions on how things work.

Firstly, I wanna state that I've got a couple of characters in PFS already, but they are all melee based.

I honestly cannot figure out how spells work. I mean, I get the effects and all, just not how you figure out the attacks. Do I use my CHA ability modifier + BAB vs their reflex save (like a fighter using a sword vs AC) or...?

[Marthian]

no it's like skill checks. You use the spell, and they roll a reflex save (or whatever save the spell asks for).

As for the DC, it's
DC of Spell = 10 + CHA Modifier + Spell Level.

If the spell calls for a touch attack, then it's just like using a weapon except you target their Touch AC.
Melee is d20 + STR + BAB
Range is d20 + DEX + BAB

otherwise, if it's an AOE, it hits.

[Gonn]

Awesome man, just awesome. You've answered my question so perfectly... I get it now. :) Big thanks!

[Xyver]

Yeah, some spells you just say "I do this." and it happens.

Other ones, Marthian explained them perfectly.

[KenderKin]

Take rejuvinate e.

must must must know this spell....

[Gonn]

KenderKin wrote:

Take rejuvinate e.

must must must know this spell....

I was thinking about that but (as I just realized that I forgot to mention) I'm going with the Master Summoner archetype and as such my Eidolon will suck, but I'll have tons of normal summons.

[Maggiethecat]

Also keep in mind that 1st level wands are really cheap, and in PFS you can use 2 Prestige Points to purchase them at any time. You may want to consider using your spells known on spells that will require a high DC and purchase a wand of Rejuvenate Eidolon instead.

[Gonn]

Maggiethecat wrote:

Also keep in mind that 1st level wands are really cheap, and in PFS you can use 2 Prestige Points to purchase them at any time. You may want to consider using your spells known on spells that will require a high DC and purchase a wand of Rejuvenate Eidolon instead.

There's different DCs of spells within the same spell level?

Huh, I thought that "DC of Spell = 10 + CHA Modifier + Spell Level."

Bearing this in mind, can you please give me some examples?

[Maggiethecat]

There generally won't be different DCs within the same spell level for spells that are cast by the same caster. For example, if your Summoner's CHA is 16 (+3) and you cast a 1st level spell that requires a save (say, Grease, or Compel Hostility) they would have the same DC (10 + CHA mod (+3) + spell level (+1) = 14.) The only change would be if you had something like Spell Focus, which would increase the DC for spells within whatever school you chose Spell Focus for.

However, wands are always created with the lowest casting modifier allowable for that spell. So a wand of Grease would only have a DC of 11 (the lowest possible CHA you could have to cast a 1st level spell is 11, which has a +0 bonus, so the DC is 10 + CHA bonus (+0) + spell level (+1) = 11.)

So it's better to get wands of spells that don't require saves, and use your spell slots for spells that you want to have high DCs.

Actually, looking at the Summoner spell list, there are more spells that are beneficial with longer durations, but the same principal still applies. If you cast Mage Armor as a 3rd level Summoner, it will last for 3 hours. But a wand of Mage Armor only lasts for 1 hour per charge, since it's made at the lowest possible caster level (1.)

[Axebeard]

Gonn wrote:

Maggiethecat wrote:

Also keep in mind that 1st level wands are really cheap, and in PFS you can use 2 Prestige Points to purchase them at any time. You may want to consider using your spells known on spells that will require a high DC and purchase a wand of Rejuvenate Eidolon instead.

There's different DCs of spells within the same spell level?

Huh, I thought that "DC of Spell = 10 + CHA Modifier + Spell Level."

Bearing this in mind, can you please give me some examples?

The difference is that wands always use the minimum possible value for determining spell DC and spell penetration caster level checks.

So looking at a spell you cast from a wand, you use the wand's stats. Let's examine a level 1 spell:

Level 1 spells require, at a minimum, a caster level 1 to cast, and a charisma of 11 to cast. So a wand of a 1st-level spell is by default at caster level 1 and charisma 11.

This means that the DC to resist the level 1 spell is 10+1(spell level)+0(charisma modifier for cha 11) = 11. To get through spell resistance, you roll 1d20+1, for the wand's caster level of 1.

Your spells you cast yourself will have higher DCs because they all use your stats instead.

What this means is that offensive spells (like glitterdust) that require your enemies to roll saving throws are much better if you cast them because they use your stats, while spells that always function (so spells you cast on your allies, generally) make fantastic wands.

Here are some of the best wand spells:
Cure Light Wounds
Infernal Healing
Rejuvinate Eidolon
Protection from Evil
Comprehend Languages
Mage Armor
Shield

All of these cost 2PA.

Another good set of gear that costs 2 PA are level 4 wiz/cleric scrolls and level 3 potions. Potions of Fly make great get-out-of-jail-free cards. Or, they would, if you weren't a master summoner and generally capable of soloing modules anyways.

I would recommend maxing out your Use Magic Device roll and, at later levels, getting scrolls of Freedom of Movement and maybe Death Ward (2 PA) for when you need them. Although those spells don't come up all the time, when they DO come up, they're huge. HUGE.

[Gonn]

Hmm, I see both of the points that you guys have, and they're valid ones.

Ok, I think that I'll do that with my spell casters from now on.

One last question, does anyone have some good tips on feats? I'm a bit stumped there, seeing as how I'm used to fighters and paladins.

And while we're on that thought; do metamagic feats have to be assigned a spell when selected, or are they like power attack in that they can be used when you like with whatever spell (that qualifies) you like?

Sorry for my many questions, I just really am new to the concept of being a caster.

[KenderKin]

What kind of summoner are you going to be?

The standard issue feats are:
spell focus conjuration
agument summoning

[Kolokotroni]

Gonn wrote:

Hmm, I see both of the points that you guys have, and they're valid ones.

Ok, I think that I'll do that with my spell casters from now on.

One last question, does anyone have some good tips on feats? I'm a bit stumped there, seeing as how I'm used to fighters and paladins.

And while we're on that thought; do metamagic feats have to be assigned a spell when selected, or are they like power attack in that they can be used when you like with whatever spell (that qualifies) you like?

Sorry for my many questions, I just really am new to the concept of being a caster.

Since you are going master summoner, DEFINATELY go spell focus conjuration and augment summoning. Summoning crittors is what you do, giving them +4 con and +4 str makes a big difference.

From ultimate magic, you might want to take a look at Extra Summon (giving you an additional use of your summon monster ability per day) and Superior summoning for when you want to swarm the battlefield with lots of beasties.

[El Baron de los Banditos]

The Master Summoner gets Augmented Summoning as a bonus feat for 2nd level, so he doesn't NEED Spell Focus(Conjuration.) That being said, PFS has a set of rules for summons (one combat animal/casting of Summon X at a time per player,) so you'll want something to do while your riding dog is still alive early on. If you DO take the conj spell focus, you could build around debuffing with Grease and, at later levels, Pit spells. Taking Spell Focus(Conjuration) and its Greater Spell Focus brother (if you're Human) will allow you to neutralize anything that uses a weapon without a locked gauntlet. With such a build, the only NEEDED stat is Cha, which is what I normally see on Master Summoners.

[jjaamm]

El Baron de los Banditos wrote:

The Master Summoner gets Augmented Summoning as a bonus feat for 2nd level, so he doesn't NEED Spell Focus(Conjuration.) That being said, PFS has a set of rules for summons (one combat animal/casting of Summon X at a time per player,) so you'll want something to do while your riding dog is still alive early on. If you DO take the conj spell focus, you could build around debuffing with Grease and, at later levels, Pit spells. Taking Spell Focus(Conjuration) and its Greater Spell Focus brother (if you're Human) will allow you to neutralize anything that uses a weapon without a locked gauntlet. With such a build, the only NEEDED stat is Cha, which is what I normally see on Master Summoners.

Actually the one combat pet only, applies to AC/familiar ect... that you start with. Not your summons. With that said, please refrain from summoning a whole army that takes forever to use. come prepared with stat cards, and maybe ask others to run some for you.

[Gonn]

jjaamm wrote:

Actually the one combat pet only, applies to AC/familiar ect... that you start with. Not your summons. With that said, please refrain from summoning a whole army that takes forever to use. come prepared with stat cards, and maybe ask others to run some for you.

I was thinking about printing off my favorites and using them en masse. My group has a house rule wherein we roll all of our attack and damage rolls in one go (ie, 3 attacks = 3 d20s). :) But I do like your suggestion.

Big thanks on the feats btw guys. Extra Summon and superior summoning sound really fun at later levels. I might also start with spell focus to enhance my annoy-ability to the enemy's forces.

As for augment summoning, I had a quick question on that too. Does it affect my eidolon? I was thinking about making him a greatsword wielding pointed-stick (I don't think that they can have armour anymore), but if he's not getting that extra +4 STR/CON then there's no point to me ever using him after level 2 due to Lesser Eidolon.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/summoner/archetypes/paizo---su mmoner-archetypes/master-summoner

Given that my Eidolon will only get weaker with levels, is this a viable build? Is there even a point to using my Eidolon after level 2 as a master summoner?

Once again, thank you for all of your input guys. :)