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I'm currently playing in a wild-west Pathfinder game, and my character is an old Vanara monk. We're low-level (2nd at the moment), and the backstory is my character used to be a martial artist of no small talent. Age and time without practicing has dulled his skills (thus the low level).
Currently statted out with high dex and wisdom, moderate intelligence and wits, and a low strength. For my second level, I'm taking either sorcerer or wizard, with my GM working with me and allowing me to use my wisdom score in place of intelligence or charisma for purposes of spell-casting.
I was looking at doing a fairly even multi-classing (1 monk, 1 mage, 1 monk, one mage, etc.). My big question is, with a low strength, is there any options for monks that will still let me do good damage, or should I perhaps just keep on the mage path?
For additional clarification; I had made him originally with the old 'drunken monk' concept; though I am using the Flowing Monk alternate build instead, as I feel it more fluidly captures the martial arts style. As the game played out, he took on a life of his own, and became a semi-crotchety old chinese man much in the same vein as Jade's Uncle from the Jackie Chan cartoon. It's with that in mind (and the fact that our party has no arcane spellcasters) that I started looking at multi-classing into a mage class.
Any help? Our next session is tonight, so quick responses would be most appreciated. :)
Well there's the guided weapon property that you could get your unarmed strikes enchanted for to switch +str to hit/damage to +wis to hit/damage that is a wimpy monk's best friend. That's not really in a level 2 character's budget though.
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Well, one thing:
Empyreal
Your heavenly power derives from insight rather than force
of personality.
Associated Bloodline: Celestial.
Bloodline Arcana: Unlike most sorcerers whose innate
magic is powered by force of personality, you use pure
willpower to master and fuel your magic. You use your
Wisdom, rather than your Charisma, to determine all class
features and effects relating to your sorcerer class, such as
bonus spells per day, maximum spell level you can cast,
and the save DCs of your spells. You gain a +2 bonus on all
Heal and Knowledge (religion) checks.
Bloodline Powers: Your quasi-divine nature gives you
strange powers.
Sacred Cistern (Su): At 9th level, your bloodline makes
you a natural receptacle of divine energy. You can channel
energy once per day as a cleric of your sorcerer level – 4.
This bloodline power replaces wings of heaven.
That would let you use your wis instead of cha if you went sorc. Also, I have a monk that has an 8 str, but still does 1d8+8 currently with his +1 Agile Aldori Dueling Sword. For 5000gp you can get an Agile Amulet of Mighty Fists to use your dex instead of str for damage when you use Weapon Finesse. It might just take some time to get there.
I'm currently playing in a wild-west Pathfinder game, and my character is an old Vanara monk. We're low-level (2nd at the moment), and the backstory is my character used to be a martial artist of no small talent. Age and time without practicing has dulled his skills (thus the low level).
Currently statted out with high dex and wisdom, moderate intelligence and wits, and a low strength. For my second level, I'm taking either sorcerer or wizard, with my GM working with me and allowing me to use my wisdom score in place of intelligence or charisma for purposes of spell-casting.
I was looking at doing a fairly even multi-classing (1 monk, 1 mage, 1 monk, one mage, etc.). My big question is, with a low strength, is there any options for monks that will still let me do good damage, or should I perhaps just keep on the mage path?
For additional clarification; I had made him originally with the old 'drunken monk' concept; though I am using the Flowing Monk alternate build instead, as I feel it more fluidly captures the martial arts style. As the game played out, he took on a life of his own, and became a semi-crotchety old chinese man much in the same vein as Jade's Uncle from the Jackie Chan cartoon. It's with that in mind (and the fact that our party has no arcane spellcasters) that I started looking at multi-classing into a mage class.
Any help? Our next session is tonight, so quick responses would be most appreciated. :)
All right, a couple of things come to mind:
1.) Leverage wisdom, with Sensei, your wisdom is your to hit.
2.) You can still play a drunken master archetype, in fact have 18 con, and you can take the fast drinker feat that will let you drink as a swift action which fills up your drunken ki pool quite quickly.
3.) If you want to live life dangerously, also take the drunken brawler feat that lets you add your level in temporary HP every time you take a drink (as a swift action, see above) (your reflex saves suffer) you're basically Jackie Chan in Drunken Boxer now.
4.) If you want even more mystical abilities, take the qinggong monk archetye (which will go well with drunken master's basically unlimited ki) or multiclass into ninja.
5.) Ninja is nice because your ki pool is also based on wisdom and you get extra damage based on sneak attack.
6.) You can get lots of damage off sneak attack with the sap adept and sap mastery feats if you take the scout archetype for the ninja to cover your lack of damage from strength.
How do I know all this? I made a character based on these theorums here:
I made a character based on these theorums here.
If you want to peruse it.
prototype00
+0 agile weapon amulet of mighty fists and weapon finesse problems solved
edit NINJA'D by Jiggy
Agile amulet of mighty fists.. Okay, wasn't aware of that item. Thanks!
Other good ideas all around, too; thanks for the speedy answers!
I'd personally go with Guided over Agile, especially if he also takes Eric Clingenpeel's suggestion of going Empyreal Sorcerer.
A lower cost alternative to agile weapons is the sensei archetype, weapon finesse, a short dip into the empyrean sorc with a focus on buffs, and the piranha strike feat that works like power attack but with dex and light weapons only. Don't do monk 10/ sorc 10 though; you'll lose too much from both for it to be worth it. Identify a spell that you absolutely want to cast,figure out how many levels you need to get it, and take only that many.
This isn't what you asked about, but I'd be cautious about an arcanist/monk even-split multiclass. If you go sorcerer, you won't get level 2 spells until level 8, when full sorcerers are getting level 4 spells, and any offensive spells you cast are going to be fairly easy to save against, since you're down four caster levels. On the monk side, at level 8 your BAB will only be +5 (+6 when you can flurry.) You'll be flurrying at +4/+4 when a full monk would be flurrying at +6/+6/+1/+1 - in other words, you're doing about half as much damage as a similarly-built full monk would. The longer the campaign lasts, the more relatively useless your casting and melee abilities with both be. I would go as heavy as possible in one direction or the other.
Any help? Our next session is tonight, so quick responses would be most appreciated. :)
It's doable. Weapon Finesse and Agile Maneuvers, using intelligence for extra skills makes them a decent trap-finder and maneuvers make them effective without having to damage things at lower levels. They canhit things, and at low level DR is generally not an issue. Taking an AoMF with the Agile property helps you ram everything into dexterity.
Guided sounds good too, though!
This isn't what you asked about, but I'd be cautious about an arcanist/monk even-split multiclass. If you go sorcerer, you won't get level 2 spells until level 8, when full sorcerers are getting level 4 spells, and any offensive spells you cast are going to be fairly easy to save against, since you're down four caster levels.
Feel obligated to nitpick and point out that caster level has no effect on save DCs for spells; the only factors are casting stat bonus and the spell level.
You do have a point on the problem of a split progression though; the end result of monk 10/caster 10 is a mediocre caster and a mediocre monk. I'd personally suggest that the OP ask their GM about adapting the 3.5 Enlightened Fist PRC for Pathfinder; a PRC that lets you progress as a caster and as a monk would do a lot to offset the problem of this multiclass.
This isn't what you asked about, but I'd be cautious about an arcanist/monk even-split multiclass. If you go sorcerer, you won't get level 2 spells until level 8, when full sorcerers are getting level 4 spells, and any offensive spells you cast are going to be fairly easy to save against, since you're down four caster levels.Feel obligated to nitpick and point out that caster level has no effect on save DCs for spells; the only factors are casting stat bonus and the spell level.
You do have a point on the problem of a split progression though; the end result of monk 10/caster 10 is a mediocre caster and a mediocre monk. I'd personally suggest that the OP ask their GM about adapting the 3.5 Enlightened Fist PRC for Pathfinder; a PRC that lets you progress as a caster and as a monk would do a lot to offset the problem of this multiclass.
Doy. Mashed-together sentences like that are what I get for trying to sneak in posts at work. Thanks for the catch.
You do have a point on the problem of a split progression though; the end result of monk 10/caster 10 is a mediocre caster and a mediocre monk.
Best way is to either dip a level or two of monk to make the caster more durable, or dip a level or two of caster to make the monk more versatile (shield for +4 AC, magic weapon for a bonus to hit & damage).
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Challenge Accepted!
The desire is to do a lot of damage & maintain attack bonus with some spell access. To whit, I introduce the idea of a Cabalist - Magus, with the intent @ 7th level to take the Empyreal bloodline. Add to this the Spire Defender Archetype and you'll gain Dodge & Combat expertise @ 1st level. Magus gives you spell combat & Spell strike, you can chose your unarmed strikes to be enhanced as magical weapons and you should be able to maintain a 3/4 attack bonus. Alternative to the Spire Defender you could go with Kensai... but that combo seems a little to often used. Ofcourse, the agile amulet of mighy fist is the best early bet for increased damage, but the Cabalist/Magus is great for enhancing your damage out put and still take advantage of your monk-like abilities.
Agile Amulet of Mighty Fists exists. Just sayin'.
Which book is agile amulet of mighty fist at or agil enchantment??
It's in one of the Golarian/PFS supplements, I don't know which one, but it is in the PFSRD.
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To be honest a monk does not need a high str. the monk flurry attacks get to 2d10 later and you can hit 7 times a round, 8 if expending ki. Now on the concerns of adding a caster class to monk its both good and bad. Its bad because you unarmed damage will not be as high as it could and you lose out on a lot of the monk awesomeness. Its good though because it gives you ranged capability, not including throwing stars, and versatility spells like mage armor, shield, spider climb, fly, ext. The caster class I would add to monk btw is sorcerer with the Infernal bloodline with the Pit-Touched wilddblooded archetype. This will grant you additional con and more importantly the qualifications to pick up the Eldritch Heritage feats. Eldritch Heritage feats should be spent on the Ork bloodline wich will give you more str and if you take it further the ability to increase in size to large which will up the die step of you unarmed damage accordingly to the size chart. Also the Robes of Arcane Heritage will aid you with you sorcerer abilities and same goes for Monk's Robe with you monk armor and unarmed damage.
The agile property is PFS legal, which is a big plus - while the guided property is really good for certain builds (if your GM allows it).