Did I do it right? I was going for a mad Captain Ahab meets Cthulu theme.
It's a 25-point buy 10th-level venerable half-elf summoner who isn't taking age penalties due to his embedded ioun stone.
He has 4 additional evolution points from feats and favored class bonuses, 2 of which were used on himself.
The character was created from an older summoner character sheet, so there may be copy and paste errors.
Jep is an eidolon/summoner it's broken
The damage on the eidolon's attacks doesn't look right. You have a +10 Str, but the claws and tentacles are both getting +9 damage? I think it should be +10 for claw and +5 for tentacle [url=http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/additionalMonsters/universalMonsterRules.html#natural-attacks](secondary attacks get half Str)[url].
I don't think you really need pull on the tentacles. If you succeed on a grapple check, don't you already automatically pull them adjacent to you? I suppose the pull would be for things that you don't end up grappling (like things that are too big)?
Your eidolon's unarmed strike should be able to deal lethal damage, yes? (You have Imp Unarmed Strike)
I didn't check a bunch of things, because I assume you can add up evolution points correctly, and I don't want to try to reverse engineer your skill ranks.
Yep, damage looks to be off. Fixed now.
I was thinking that pull would help her to better use her body shield feat, which only allows you to gain cover from adjacent grappled enemies, but now I realize that the very act of grappling already pulls them adjacent--so perhaps you're right.
I know unarmed strikes can be lethal, but her other attacks are universally better as far as lethality goes, so I'm listing it as a "nonlethal alternative." In short, it's a deliberate.
Con should be 17 (13+4 for large), not 18. It looks like you already spent both your ability point increases in Str. (16 base, +8 large, +4 from Str/Dex bonus, +2 from levels).
Con should be 17 (13+4 for large), not 18. It looks like you already spent both your ability point increases in Str. (16 base, +8 large, +4 from Str/Dex bonus, +2 from levels).
I'll double check the numbers. That may be a holdover error from the previous character sheet.
EDIT: It looks like I removed the belt of giant strength from the previous character sheet, but didn't adjust the strength to suit on the new one.
Fixed now. Thanks.
EDIT: I've uploaded an updated version of the character sheet with the corrections. You may access it from the same link in the OP. This way, people won't be required to read the whole thread to make sure they're not posting about redundant errors.
And your spells per day on the summoner are off. Base you should be getting 5, 4, 3, 1 (level 1, 2, 3, 4 respectively). Bonus spells for 23 Cha give +2, +2, +1, +1. That means:
Level 1: 7
Level 2: 6
Level 3: 4
Level 4: 2
I almost pointed out that you're not proficient with shields, but it doesn't matter, since it's a masterwork mithral buckler.
And your spells per day on the summoner are off. Base you should be getting 5, 4, 3, 1 (level 1, 2, 3, 4 respectively). Bonus spells for 23 Cha give +2, +2, +1, +1. That means:
Level 1: 7
Level 2: 6
Level 3: 4
Level 4: 2I almost pointed out that you're not proficient with shields, but it doesn't matter, since it's a masterwork mithral buckler.
Finally! A change for the positive. :D
And yes, you are absolutely right about the mithral buckler. Extraordinary baubles those.
EDIT: Updated the PDF character sheet. Again.
You remembered to write down your racial +2 to perception, but didn't actually add it in the two places where you have perception written down. You should have a total of +2.
You remembered to write down your racial +2 to perception, but didn't actually add it in the two places where you have perception written down. You should have a total of +2.
Ah. He used to have 7 wisdom (-2 penalty) before I discovered the nacreous gray sphere ioun stone and decided to make him venerable (better matches his picture anyways). I must have forgotten to update it when I made the changes.
Fixed and updated.
maybe I am missing it but I don't see the tentacle under your listed evolutions...I must be blind.
Is this an NPC? If you are making a player character that is using an advanced age on creation but not taking penaties... well I call cheese. As an NPC it's fine I suppose though.
Additionally it looks like your tentacle beast has no tentacles :)
Running the numbers and adding 3 tentacles it looks like you are 2 evolution points over the cap.
I'd consider removing Reach and +2 armor. First of all I believe that Reach is only meant for 1 of your attacks, not all attacks of the same type, so only one of your tentacles would be extra long (which is fine if you want more attacks of opportunities but you don't get combat reflexes to help it).
He has two extra EP for being half-elf, which explains the points over cap... but yeah, he didn't actually buy the tentacle attacks.
And yeah, his avoidance of age penalties with embedded ioun stones is kinda cheesy, but I was just looking for illegal stuff.
He has two extra EP for being half-elf, which explains the points over cap... but yeah, he didn't actually buy the tentacle attacks.
And yeah, his avoidance of age penalties with embedded ioun stones is kinda cheesy, but I was just looking for illegal stuff.
Did you run the numbers? I believe counted those and the extra evolution feats. Adding the tentacles puts him over budget.
I didn't do the EP numbers, no.
Listed evolutions:
1 - Climb
2 - Grab
2 - Improved Natural Armor x2
1 - Magic Attack
1 - Reach
4 - Size
4 - Spell Resistance
1 - Swim
2 - Aspect
Total: 18 points
14 - 10th level summoner
+2 - half-elf favored bonus
+2 - extra evolution feat x2
Total: 18 points
Three tentacles are unaccounted for and unpaid... *cut*
EDIT: Somebody check my math and the sheet as I am quite sleepy now, in the middle of the night.
18 Evolution Points seems right. I don't know where '2 - Aspect' comes from though. As far as I can tell these are two free points.
I did make a mistake when I ran the numbers earlier (I had put energy attacks instead of magical attacks), so I saw 1 free point instead of two but still two free points is not enough for three tentacle attacks obviously.
18 Evolution Points seems right. I don't know where '2 - Aspect' comes from though.
Two EP went to his summoner via the Aspect rule to give the guy a pair of tentacle attacks.
Oh I see. Right then, yes, it all adds up.
Added in the mention of the 3 tentacles on the evolutions line. So...all the EP DOES add up correctly then?
Cross-posted from another thread.
Maybe I missed it...but did you link back to the artist's page in your PDF? I'm sure that would be appreciated.Created the Chaerim Witch eidolon (and her master) here. I was going for a mad Captain Ahab meets Cthulu theme.
What do you think? I imagine any time he casts a buff or size-change spell it comes with some kind of gruesome change, much like in the Parasite Eve or Resident Evil video games (or in the case of polymorph effects, a gruesome and painful looking transformation sequence).
Thanks for the heads up. I usually use these character sheets in house only, and linked to the artist in the OP, so I hadn't really considered the legal ramifications of spreading the PDF around.
I'll be sure to change that. EDIT: Fixed. You can now get to both artists' sites by clicking the embedded images.
Should probably do that with my other online sheets as well...
No, because:
name cost num total cost
climb 1 1 1
claws 0* 1 0
grab 2 1 2
armor 1 2 2
limbs 0* 2 0
magic 1 1 1
reach 1 1 1
size 4 1 4
resist 4 1 4
swim 1 1 1
tentacl 1 3 3
19
(Edit: That looks terrible, but it adds up)
That's a total cost of 19 EP, even assuming your limbs and claws are free. You have 14 EP base, plus another 4, minus 2 that you're stealing for aspect, giving you 16 EP available for your eidolon. That's a 3 EP difference. You could drop spell resist, which would give you an extra point to pick up something like energy resist or scent. Unnatural Aura from Ultimate Magic would be a pretty good pick too. Thematically, anyways.
Thanks Castarr4. I've also just noticed that I can't get body shield AND chokehold just yet, as they both require BAB +6, and the eidolon only gets one feat between the 6th and 8th HD.
Just curious.
Why not this instead of Mithril?
MUCH cheaper...
No armor check penatly but it still has arane spell failure chance.
Nacreous Gray Sphere (Ioun Stone)
Aura moderate abjuration; CL 12th
Slot none; Price: 10,000 gp; Weight —.
DESCRIPTION
This stone protects you from ability score penalties from aging and you cannot be magically aged. Any penalties you have already incurred remain in place. Bonuses still accrue, and you still die of old age when your time is up. If you lose the stone or its abilities are negated in some way, all age and penalties apply immediately.
The ioun stone won't counter penalties if they already exist. I don't know what the rules are for creating characters that are beyond the normal starting age.
Added in the mention of the 3 tentacles on the evolutions line. So...all the EP DOES add up correctly then?
You may have already realized this -
You were on budget BEFORE the tentacle attacks were added to the evolutions (although they were listed as part of it's attacks, which was incorrect). Adding three tentacle attacks put you 3 EP over budget.
Removing the tentacles from the summoner, then taking away reach or armor for his minion probably makes the most sense. However, I'm guessing that changes the flavor of what you are going for. You can take away Spell Resistance and have 1 more EP to spend on the Eidlon itself. You can remove both natural armor increases and reach if you want to keep Spell Resistance.
I'll say again, having the reach seems lack-luster on this minion and it only will happen with one singular tenticle attack (it won't be applied to all three).
The ioun stone won't counter penalties if they already exist. I don't know what the rules are for creating characters that are beyond the normal starting age.
Right, which is why as a player it would be pure cheese. If it's an NPC with a history I think it's actually a kind of cool way to make a tougher BBEG as long as it's not something that you overdo.
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No armor check penatly but it still has arane spell failure chance.Just curious.
Why not this instead of Mithril?
MUCH cheaper...
But if he is casting with somatic components then he loses the AC bonus of the shield for that round anyways. And if you don't cast a spell with somatic components then there is no failure. Eh I guess I don't want to spend like 1,000g to get rid of a 5% failure chance...
But if he is casting with somatic components then he loses the AC bonus of the shield for that round anyways. And if you don't cast a spell with somatic components then there is no failure. Eh I guess I don't want to spend like 1,000g to get rid of a 5% failure chance...No armor check penatly but it still has arane spell failure chance.Just curious.
Why not this instead of Mithril?
MUCH cheaper...
Typically it's flavored thusly -
Free action to have your weapon in your other hand - cast spell - free action to move it back. Works by strict reading of RAW but your mileage may vary.
It would be a bonus when you don't cast a spell on that turn. You can also just not have a weapon in one hand when you cast a spell and have the buckler for more AC (not what is going on here I know).
You asked the reason for the Mithril Buckler and it's because of the ASF chance, simple as that.
Thanks for the explanation Hawktitan, that is likely what happened.
The ioun stone won't counter penalties if they already exist. I don't know what the rules are for creating characters that are beyond the normal starting age.
You DO know that the starting ages are not mandatory right? They are merely offered as suggestions. RAW you can start your character at any age you want. Clearly this character created the ioun stone while he was still a young man.
But if he is casting with somatic components then he loses the AC bonus of the shield for that round anyways. And if you don't cast a spell with somatic components then there is no failure. Eh I guess I don't want to spend like 1,000g to get rid of a 5% failure chance...
It's kind of a moot point, as I can always cast spells with the other hand while holding the harpoon in my buckler hand. If I need to use the weapon, I can always wield it with both hands as a free action (which I would do at the end of my turn every turn so as to be able to take advantage of any AoO's that arise. I do see now, though, that I should probably apply a -1 to hit with that harpoon due to the buckler.
UPDATED PDF
I have over 100+ Pathfinder characters under my belt. I'm a character designing veteran. I can't believe there have been this many mistakes.
Summoner truly is something else.
Thanks for the explanation Hawktitan, that is likely what happened.
The ioun stone won't counter penalties if they already exist. I don't know what the rules are for creating characters that are beyond the normal starting age.You DO know that the starting ages are not mandatory right? They are merely offered as suggestions. RAW you can start your character at any age you want. Clearly this character created the ioun stone while he was still a young man.
The following section determines a character’s starting age, height, and weight. The character’s race and class influence these statistics. Consult your GM before making a character that does not conform to these statistics.
Age
You can choose or randomly generate your character’s age. If you choose it, it must be at least the minimum age for the character’s race and class (see Table 7–1). Alternatively, roll the dice indicated for your class on Table 7–1 and add the result to the minimum age of adulthood for your race to determine how old your character is.
With age, a character’s physical ability scores decrease and his mental ability scores increase (see Table 7–2). The effects of each aging step are cumulative. However, none of a character’s ability scores can be reduced below 1 in this way.
When a character reaches venerable age, secretly roll his maximum age (on Table 7–2) and record the result, which the player does not know. A character who reaches his maximum age dies of old age sometime during the following year.
The maximum ages are for player characters. Most people in the world at large die from pestilence, accidents, infections, or violence before getting to venerable age.
I suppose the strictest reading of the RAW would state that you could start at any age above the minimum, but then you should be starting at level 1 from that point too.
All I'm saying it that the ioun stone doesn't reverse aging penalties that already exist. If they don't already exist because very conveniently this character created the ioun stone at the right time that's a perfectly reasonable claim to make.
You can choose or randomly generate your character's age. If you choose it, it must be at least the minimum age for the character's race and class. Alternatively, roll the dice indicated for your class on Table: Random Starting Ages and add the result to the minimum age of adulthood for your race to determine how old your character is.
RAW. Though I likely would anyways, the way the rules are written I'm not obligated to consult the GM when picking age, provided it conforms to the statistics (that is, falls into the normal ranges for the given race).
Many people find it cheesy (I can't help but think such roleplayers really limit themselves conceptually), but its still part of the game, and perfectly within the rules.
UPDATED PDFI have over 100+ Pathfinder characters under my belt. I'm a character designing veteran. I can't believe there have been this many mistakes.
Summoner truly is something else.
You still have 21 evolution points on your Eidolon when your cap is 18. I agree that a Summoner is a PITA.
RAW. Though I likely would anyways, the way the rules are written I'm not obligated to consult the GM when picking age, provided it conforms to the statistics (that is, falls into the normal ranges for the given race).Many people find it cheesy (I can't help but think such roleplayers really limit themselves conceptually), but its still part of the game, and perfectly within the rules
A GM has final say whether or not a character is let in, especially over level 1. If your GM allows it then hey more more to him and you, but it's not something you should stealth in. It should only be allowed in a high powered high fantasy game with other players making similiar characters otherwise it is pure cheese, you know it and I know it and there is no way that I can see defending it with a straight face.
Ok, that's the last thing I'm going to say about the stone.
A GM has final say whether or not a character is let in, especially over level 1. If your GM allows it then hey more more to him and you, but it's not something you should stealth in. It should only be allowed in a high powered high fantasy game with other players making similiar characters otherwise it is pure cheese, you know it and I know it and there is no way that I can see defending it with a straight face.
A GM having final say on any and all characters in his campaign? That goes without saying.
I also agree that "stealthing things in" is bad form, even when the rules "technically" allow for it.
I don't see it as cheese though. I see it as the only way of reaching my character concept (a really old guy) while still keeping the character at all viable (a -6 to all physical stats is NEVER viable).
I honestly liked the way 4E handled age best. There are no modifiers. If you are old, you simply say so, and maybe adjust your point buy to reflect it. You could be a really strong old guy, for example. That is just not something you can do in Pathfinder without either (1) ignoring the mandatory aging modifiers altogether or (2) resorting to what you refer to as "cheese."
Also, the existence of the age resistance line of spells and the above ioun stone let's me know that getting around the aging penalties (with some investment) is fully endorsed by the game designers themselves.
If anything, I see it as taking advantage of a patch, not being cheesy.
EDIT: Just realized that my post may come off as sounding negative or defensive. Just to be clear: I am in no way upset by your comments or stance, though I do have a differing opinion on the matter.
The issue that makes it seem cheesy isn't just that you're avoiding penalties for being old... It's that you're actually benefiting overall. +3 to all mental scores is pretty awesome for the low cost of "old."
I totally see where you're coming from though, and I mostly agree with you. Feel free to not respond to this post, since you've already stated your opinion. I just wanted to say mine too.
I have 5 or 6 other summoner characters on file. Having seen how many errors have cropped up with this one I'm tempted to ask for help looking over the others as well.
Would anyone mind if I posted them for review? Or is that asking for too much? In return, you'll get some cool characters to use in your games as you see fit.
EDIT: Just counted them up. Not counting the above summoner, it's four summoners (with eidolons) and two additional eidolons (without summoners).
Asking too much then?
Only looking at the eidolon evolutions, not checking other numbers.
Baby Hecaton, enslaved demigod - Looks fine
Durin Wrang, eidolon rider - Looks fine
Haloy Wrang, possessed being - Looks like he's 1 EP over budget. Seems like you have wings 3 times, my quick advice is to drop one wing evolution and add a bite or some armor.
Lataf, undead bull eidolon - Looks fine
Ruel Wheaton, air ship quartermaster - 1 EP over budget. Additionally the Mount evolution isn't valid with biped. If you remove it then everything balances.
Hopefully I didn't make any mistakes while checking these over - Summoners are as always a pain.
I think the baby hecaton's Con is too high. Should be 16 instead of 17. And Fort should be a +6 instead of +7, regardless of whether Con is wrong or not.
I think the baby hecaton's Con is too high. Should be 16 instead of 17. And Fort should be a +6 instead of +7, regardless of whether Con is wrong or not.
The con is correct at 17, but you are correct about the fortitude being too high.
Fixed Baby Hecaton's Fortitude save.
Haloy has 2 bonus EP from favored class bonuses and thus right on target I believe. She has wings once (2 EP) and added additional wing speed twice (+2 EP).
Ruel's breakdown:
1 claws (2) - one set free, one not
3 flight (wings, speed +20 ft.) - 2 base, +1 additional speed
2 improved natural armor (2)
0 limbs (arms, legs) - FREE
1 mount - illegal
1 reach (claws)
4 size (large)
2 skilled (perception, stealth)
That totals up to 14, or 13 once I get rid of mount. As an 8th-level eidolon, Myrn has 11 EP to start. Due to favored class bonuses and feats, however, she gets 3 more from Ruel, for a total of 14 EP.
I might rebuild her as a quadruped, since I really wanted to use her as a steed.
Thanks for the help everyone. Let me know if you spot anything else.
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There should be a joke about this.
How many people does it take to build a Summoner correctly?
Answer: It doesn't matter, something will always be wrong.
