Emulate class ability


Rules Questions


So a question regarding the emulate class feature use of use magic device; the text of the skill use says that you act as a member of the class whose feature your emulating at level equal to 20- skill check. So, if I emulate a class feature that increases with level (monk unarmed damage and AC bonuses, barbarian fast movement, druid wild shape usages, etc...) I will then fool the item into thinking I have the class feature of a class member of the level my check indicated. An example; I use an item that that improves on ranger favored enemy bonuses and get a UMD result of 30. So, for that activation of the item, I act as a 10th level ranger and use the item to get bonuses to the favored enemy ability of a 10th level ranger (+6 potentially and whatever the item gives me). Is that correct? How does this usage of UMD work with wondrous items? How often do you have to make the check? Others in our group put forth the reading that this use only gives you the class feature at its lowest level but then what does the thing about acting as a class member of level 20-check mean?


For your example, you would emulate the class feature for the purposes of activating the item. It does not actually grant you the class feature:

prd wrote:
Emulate a Class Feature: Sometimes you need to use a class feature to activate a magic item. In this case, your effective level in the emulated class equals your Use Magic Device check result minus 20. This skill does not let you actually use the class feature of another class. It just lets you activate items as if you had that class feature. If the class whose feature you are emulating has an alignment requirement, you must meet it, either honestly or by emulating an appropriate alignment with a separate Use Magic Device check (see above).

So you would activate the item, but it would do nothing for you because you have no favored enemy feature to improve. Now, if the device, say, allowed you to become invisible, or to give you a different bonus (say, a +2 luck bonus to attack and damage rolls), but one of the requirements for using the device was "favored enemy", then you would be able to use the item to become invisible, or gain the +2 luck bonus to attack and damage rolls, because you fooled the item.

Wondrous items aren't special. You still emulate the class feature as if you had it at (skill check - 20)th level. As for how often, it's just like any other item. If it's an activation effect, like a pearl of power or a wand, you make the UMD check every time you use the effect. If it's a continuous effect, like boots of speed, then you make the check once an hour:

prd wrote:
If you are using the check to emulate an alignment or some other quality in an ongoing manner, you need to make the relevant Use Magic Device check once per hour.


Well, if the emulate usage is binary (either I get class feature or I don't) what's the point of saying I act as a class of level (check-20)? If I don't already have the class feature then emulate just let's me act like I do so the level I'm faking doesn't matter. My reading of the section you bolded is that emulate ability does not let you fake class feature outside of activating a magic item. I can't walk around emulating class features whenever I want just to get bonuses. But when I'm activating a magic item I can fake a class feature as if I were a class of level (check - 20). To use my example, I can't just turn on favored enemy at lvl 10 with that check unless I'm also using it to activate my magic item. That's my take on it anyway. Otherwise what's the point of faking a certain level of the class?


So, with one skill check, and a magic item that requires that class ability, you can emulate ANY class ability? No. It states quite clearly you cannot use the class feature, you just fool the item into thinking you have it.


James Vacca wrote:
Well, if the emulate usage is binary (either I get class feature or I don't) what's the point of saying I act as a class of level (check-20)? If I don't already have the class feature then emulate just let's me act like I do so the level I'm faking doesn't matter. My reading of the section you bolded is that emulate ability does not let you fake class feature outside of activating a magic item. I can't walk around emulating class features whenever I want just to get bonuses. But when I'm activating a magic item I can fake a class feature as if I were a class of level (check - 20). To use my example, I can't just turn on favored enemy at lvl 10 with that check unless I'm also using it to activate my magic item. That's my take on it anyway. Otherwise what's the point of faking a certain level of the class?

Well, say you have a magic item that requires still mind. Monks dont get it at level 1, so you'd have to fake the appropriate level in order to activate the item of a monk that would have still mind.


Let's assume as an example that there is an item that says "if you ahve still mind you get +2 damage with unarmed weapon". If you roll a use magic device check and succed, you "fool" the item into thinking that you ahve still mind, ad thus he grants you the +2 to damage with unarmed weapon, You do not get however the +2 against enchantment and compulsion effects, since you don't actually ahve still mind.

In short, even when you succed the use magic device check, you benefit only from the bonus the item itself grants, not those of the class feature you emulate.


I understand all this but it still doesn't answer the question about what the level reference is for. If the emulate class feature usage is just an on/off switch then there's no need to know what level you're faking of the class in question. You either succeed on the check and use the item or you don't and you don't. But if the check is supposed to let you fake a certain specific tier of the class feature then you would need the level reference. I'm not faking a class, I'm faking a class feature as if I were a class of level x.

Liberty's Edge

It doesn't matter what level you're emulating at, since you don't get to use the ability at all. You just get to trick the magic item into thinking you have that ability.

It might help us to answer more clearly if you can give a precise example of an item that you think this would matter for.

In the example in your first post, I don't think it would get you anything. You're tricking the item into thinking you have the favoured enemy ability, and it increases that ability. However, you don't actually get to use favoured enemy, so the item doesn't really do anything for you at all.


James Vacca wrote:
I understand all this but it still doesn't answer the question about what the level reference is for. If the emulate class feature usage is just an on/off switch then there's no need to know what level you're faking of the class in question. You either succeed on the check and use the item or you don't and you don't. But if the check is supposed to let you fake a certain specific tier of the class feature then you would need the level reference. I'm not faking a class, I'm faking a class feature as if I were a class of level x.

The level reference is for two purposes:

1) If the item requires you to be an Xth level caster (or a Xth level barbarian, or an Xth level Y), the DC is now 20+X.
2) If the item requires you to have a class feature which is not gained until Xth level of a class, the DC is now 20+x.

If, on the other hand, the item just requires you to be a member of that class, a DC 20 check is sufficient.


James Vacca wrote:
I understand all this but it still doesn't answer the question about what the level reference is for. If the emulate class feature usage is just an on/off switch then there's no need to know what level you're faking of the class in question. You either succeed on the check and use the item or you don't and you don't. But if the check is supposed to let you fake a certain specific tier of the class feature then you would need the level reference. I'm not faking a class, I'm faking a class feature as if I were a class of level x.

Whether or not you have to deal with scroll mishaps is a level-dependent thing; if you aren't high enough level to cast the spell that's on the scroll, you might flub it and get problems using the scroll. For instance.


Alitan wrote:
James Vacca wrote:
I understand all this but it still doesn't answer the question about what the level reference is for. If the emulate class feature usage is just an on/off switch then there's no need to know what level you're faking of the class in question. You either succeed on the check and use the item or you don't and you don't. But if the check is supposed to let you fake a certain specific tier of the class feature then you would need the level reference. I'm not faking a class, I'm faking a class feature as if I were a class of level x.
Whether or not you have to deal with scroll mishaps is a level-dependent thing; if you aren't high enough level to cast the spell that's on the scroll, you might flub it and get problems using the scroll. For instance.

Scrolls are a separate use of UMD, though, so they're not relevant to faking a class feature.


@Bobson; for your first point I can see why a level would be necessary but your second point is moot. The way that emulate is being described is a binary function; you either succeed on the check and fake the class feature or you don't. The level of the class your faking never enters the equation. At least that's what I'm hearing.

@Zonto; this conversation stems from the Braid of a Hundred Masters from the Quest for Perfection series of mods. The Braid gives you a bonus to damage from flurry of blows attacks three times a day (among other things). What I'm postulating is the following:

Interpretation 1: I activate the Braid and roll a UMD of 30. That gives me an effective monk level of 10 so my faked flurry of blows is +8/+8/+3/+3 and then the Braid effect gets added to that (adding STR x1.5 in damage). Every hour, or every time I want to use this item I roll a check and depending on the check my faked monk level goes up or down and then I apply the Braid's effect.

Interpretation 2: I activate the Braid and roll a UMD of 30. This gives me an effective monk level of 10 but since I have no real monk levels I don't get to flurry. I've now activated the item by faking flurry but do I get to use the actual ability of the item? If so, how do I determine which of my attacks count as flurry attacks for the purposes of using the item? Do all of my attacks for 1 round (the duration of the effect) get the bonus damage? Why do I need to know what level of monk I'm faking?

Interpretation 3: The other abilities of the Braid are increasing fast movement and unarmed damage by 2 levels. If I, a non-monk, activate the Braid with a UMD of 30 (effective monk level 10) do I then now have fast movement and unarmed equivalent to a 12th lvl monk? Or do I just need to get the a UMD check of at least 23 which would be a 3rd level monk, the earliest they get fast movement?

The chart for UMD lists the emulate class feature DC as 20 but the text of the ability makes the reference to effective level of check - 20. I don't understand why I need an effective level if the intention of the emulate feature is just to fake a class feature at its most basic level. I don't care what level of monk I'm faking, just whether or not I can fake flurry or fast movement or unarmed damage. If, however, the intention is to fake a certain level of the class that grants the feature then I can see why the effective level entry is necessary but that would also imply that the tier of the class feature I am faking goes up as well.

I also understand that Interpretation 1 is really pretty broken and is most likely incorrect. I'm ok with that, but I'm trying to point out the inconsistencies and vagueness in the text.


You get the boost to flurry of blows.

But you don't have flurry of blows, so it doesn't matter.

The effective level bit is for situations where there's also a level dependent effect.

So, for example, "A level 10 monk with flurry of blows gets a +2 bonus to Will saves."

You fake having flurry of blows, and due to your roll, you count as a level 10 monk. You then get the +2 to Will saves.

The text is exceedingly clear that it does not let you use the class feature that you faked.

Emulating Armor Training for Sash of the War Champion doesn't let you get the benefits of armor training. Emulating Smite Evil for a silver smite bracelet doesn't let you smite evil.

Liberty's Edge

Cheapy is correct. You get a bonus to your nonexistent flurry of blows ability, which grants you a net gain of nothing. As for the fast movement and unarmed damage, you would get the fast movement and unarmed damage of (your monk level) +2. So, a 2nd level monk.

Liberty's Edge

Actually I take that back - it increases your fast movement and unarmed damage by two levels - both of which are abilities you don't have. So again, it doesn't do anything for you unless you have monk levels.


James Vacca wrote:

@Bobson; for your first point I can see why a level would be necessary but your second point is moot. The way that emulate is being described is a binary function; you either succeed on the check and fake the class feature or you don't. The level of the class your faking never enters the equation. At least that's what I'm hearing.

...
The chart for UMD lists the emulate class feature DC as 20 but the text of the ability makes the reference to effective level of check - 20. I don't understand why I need an effective level if the intention of the emulate feature is just to fake a class feature at its most basic level. I don't care what level of monk I'm faking, just whether or not I can fake flurry or fast movement or unarmed damage. If, however, the intention is to fake a certain level of the class that grants the feature then I can see why the effective level entry is necessary but that would also imply that the tier of the class feature I am faking goes up as well.
UMD wrote:
Emulate a Class Feature: Sometimes you need to use a class feature to activate a magic item. In this case, your effective level in the emulated class equals your Use Magic Device check result minus 20.

Text always takes precedence over a table when there's a conflict.

A 3rd level monk does not have the Still Mind class feature. A 4th level monk does. Therefore, if I roll a 23, I don't manage to emulate the Still Mind feature, because I "am" only a 3rd level monk. If I roll a 24, I "am" a 4th level monk, and 4th level monks have Still Mind, so I can activate an item that requires it.

It's still binary, because I either manage to emulate Still Mind or not, but I need to roll high enough to emulate a high enough level in that class to have the feature. If the item requires Tongue of the Sun and Moon, I either have to be a 17th level monk, or pretend to be a 17th level monk. To pretend to be a 17th level monk, I need to roll a 37.

Does that make sense?

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

Here is an actual example of a magic item with an effect where class level matters:

PRD wrote:

Holy Avenger

Aura strong abjuration; CL 18th

Slot none; Price 120,630 gp; Weight 4 lbs.

DESCRIPTION

This +2 cold iron longsword becomes a +5 holy cold iron longsword in the hands of a paladin.

This sacred weapon provides spell resistance of 5 + the paladin's level to the wielder and anyone adjacent to her. It also enables the paladin to use greater dispel magic (once per round as a standard action) at the class level of the paladin. Only the area dispel is possible, not the targeted dispel or counterspell versions of greater dispel magic.

Construction

Requirements Craft Magic Arms and Armor, holy aura, creator must be good; Cost 60,630 gp

So you could emulate being a paladin with a DC 20 check, but your "effective level" would determine how good the SR and dispel effects are.

I love the mental image of a rogue tricking a holy avenger into thinking he's a paladin.


Yes.

And as long as the rogue can make the check every hour, he's golden.

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