Grapple vs Still & Silent spells

[Dezhem]

So I got my Wizard foolishly caught by a Grapple the other week. What concerned me was how utterly debilitating that was. Aside from being more careful in the future (Invisibility is not a get-out-of-perception-free-card), I started to think about ways to escape a grapple sans ranks in Escape Artist.

And I'm coming up dreadfully short, pretty much because this ONE line from the grapple rules.

Grappled Condition:

Grappled: A grappled creature is restrained by a creature, trap, or effect. Grappled creatures cannot move and take a –4 penalty to Dexterity. A grappled creature takes a –2 penalty on all attack rolls and combat maneuver checks, except those made to grapple or escape a grapple. In addition, grappled creatures can take no action that requires two hands to perform. A grappled character who attempts to cast a spell or use a spell-like ability must make a concentration check (DC 10 + grappler's CMB + spell level), or lose the spell. Grappled creatures cannot make attacks of opportunity.

Is that meant to be a blanket statement covering ALL spells, regardless of what they require? For example, if I had a Silent Dimension Door prepared, that reduces the components required for it to nothing. Would I still need to make a concentration check? (Against any half-decent grappler that's impossible to make)

The best I could come up with is to have a Spell Tattoo inscribed on a hand; this works like a scroll but you only need to use one hand and be able to see the tattoo to activate it. It does provoke but would hopefully bypass the Concentration check.

[Tiny Coffee Golem]

Only somatic components are affected by grappling. It's why dimension door is verbal only. It's the magic version of a get out of grapple free card.

So if you have a stilled spell ready then you can use it in a grapple without issue. To use a somatic spell while grappled you have to make a concentration check.

[Dezhem]

I really wish that was explained in the Grappled condition, as opposed to extrapolating that from the Pinned condition. I've had a number of people (including my DM at the time) argue that the Concentration check happens regardless of what sort of spell is being attempted.

[Tiny Coffee Golem]

Dezhem wrote:

I really wish that was explained in the Grappled condition, as opposed to extrapolating that from the Pinned condition. I've had a number of people (including my DM at the time) argue that the Concentration check happens regardless of what sort of spell is being attempted.

How much do you have to really concentrate to just say a word?

Anyway, Your dm is creating a house rule, which he can do, but i'd make sure he understood that is what he is doing.

[AvalonXQ]

Actually, it's the worse than that. Only spells without somatic components can be cast at all, and all spells require the concentration check.

Concentration Checks and Casting Spells wrote:

Grappling or Pinned

The only spells you can cast while grappling or pinned are those without somatic components and whose material components (if any) you have in hand. Even so, you must make a concentration check (DC 10 + the grappler's CMB + the level of the spell you're casting) or lose the spell.

So, yes, your still DD still requires a concentration check when you're grappled.

Grappling is a very effective tactic against spell-casters; this is intentional.

[gishjunkie]

Nope. It doesn't matter if it doesn't have a somatic component, you still have to make the concentration check. So dimension door is not a get out of grapple free card.

[AvalonXQ]

Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

How much do you have to really concentrate to just say a word?

An easy experiment to do: we'll turn on Dragon Dictation, and you pronounce a tongue twister while I have you in a bear hug and are trying to force you to the ground.

Afterwards, we'll see whether the Dragon Dictation properly captured every word, and you can tell us if my wrestling was a distraction -- and if you think a better wrestler might have been a worse distraction.

[Tiny Coffee Golem]

AvalonXQ wrote:

Actually, it's the worse than that. Only spells without somatic components can be cast at all, and all spells require the concentration check.

Concentration Checks and Casting Spells wrote:

Grappling or Pinned

The only spells you can cast while grappling or pinned are those without somatic components and whose material components (if any) you have in hand. Even so, you must make a concentration check (DC 10 + the grappler's CMB + the level of the spell you're casting) or lose the spell.

So, yes, your still DD still requires a concentration check when you're grappled.

Grappling is a very effective tactic against spell-casters; this is intentional.

Ah, so if they have somatic components you can't cast them at all. My bad. I haven't memorized every pathfinder rule yet.

Though the teleportation specialist wizard and travel cleric (8th level) could use their abilities without a check as they are SLA's.

[AvalonXQ]

Actually, the general consensus seem to be that SLAs require a concentration check as well.

I've not found any specific rules support for this, though -- I think it's primarily based around the fact that concentration checks are not listed as an exception in the SLA rules to treating them like spells.

[Dezhem]

Ah well. I suppose the spell tattoo filled with DDoor or Liberating Command (much cheaper!) will have to suffice as my safeguards against being grappled. I'm going out on a limb here that I can activate a spell tattoo without having to jump through too many hoops.