Duelist advice wanted (1st character)


Advice


OK, I’m new to Pathfinder and PFS. I’ll be playing in my first PFS game in a week or so and I’ve decided on what I want to play. I just feel drawn to the Duelist and have an image of the character in mind.
Here’s my character concept. As a boy, Devan was separated from his family while travelling in a caravan. He made his way to the nearest city. He survived using his speed and wits by stealing, begging fighting and the slight generosity from a few in the city. Eventually, he found his way aboard a ship, where he learned to sail and fight with a rapier or saber. Now that the sea is in his blood, he is setting out to make his fortune to purchase his own vessel to begin a life as a trader or pirate.

To meet my vision of his background, I like the idea of taking a little bit in both, but not sure how best to do it. Looks like I’ll need 3 levels rogue and 4 levels fighter or 2 levels rogue and 5 levels fighter.

Got a few questions and any help you can offer is much appreciated.

1. Good idea to mix fighter & rogue, or just stick to one class?

2. If I go 3 rogue & 4 fighter, should I do 4 & 4? Or, given that, should I just go 8 levels of rogue.

3. If mixing classes, can one use an archetype from each class (i.e. mobile-fighter & swashbuckler-rogue)?

4. If one has two classes, do benefits from different feats & abilities stack? For instance, if one takes Power Attack & has Sneak Attack, can they both be applied?

5. Do Prestige Classes continue to gain feats every other level like base classes or do they only get their PrC class benefits?

6. Is there something else that would meet my character concept easier?


1.and2. It's hard to say as for as power you sound like you will be right on target if you think he is more "rougy" take more rouge if he seem tougher and stronger take more fighter. If you want pure power take fighter but from the background some or all rouge makes more sense.

3. Yes you can even use multiple archetypes in one class as long as they don't trade the same features so if one substitutes your armor training you couldn't take a different on that also substitutes armor training but taking one for each class is fine.

4. Yes you can power attack a flanked enemy and you would get both the -x to hit the +x to damage and the +xd6 from sneak attack. If it modifies an attack it will work together.

5. Yes you get feats just for leveling up regardless of class some classes, like fighter, also grant extra feats but you always get the level feats the table is on the page before barbarian.

6. Take a look at the weapon finesse feat and the agile weapon property in the magic items section finesse lets you use dex to hit and the agile property adds dex to damage, it represents better technique rather then brute force. That sounds like it's what you are looking for.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

The fighter archetype you want is probably the loreguard from Pathfinder Society. More skill points and gives up the armor profs that you aren't going to be using anyways.

I'd take a look at the Aldori archetype as the base fighter build, too. The Aldori sword qualifies specifically as a duelist weapon.

For feats, I'd highly recommend the Crane Wing series for any sort of duelist...the ability to utterly neutralize one attack is an extraordinary gift, it relies on single weapon wielding which you are already doing, and makes you tougher to hit. Get the trait that lets you fight defensively for less of a penalty and you can basically get the defensive mods for fighting defensively all the time for no penalty.

With the Loreguard, there's no need to take Rogue levels, and you'll probably want to stay fighter for the extra feats if you truly want to be a damage dealer. You might grab one level to get the class skills bonus and an exta +1d6 SA, but that's really all you'll need.

==Aelryinth


If you are going with Aelryinth's advice make sure to train in acrobatics as it gives you a better bonus to fighting defensively you would more then likely train it anyway.

Also I forgot if you get medium armor prof you can get a mithril breast plate and it counts as light armor so you don't lose any class features from rouge and dualist for wearing it, it depends on how high you dex gets but it will be a nice bump to ac unless you have a godly 32 dex


Where do I find the Loreguard archetype? Currently all I have at my for reference is the Core Rulebook & APG.

Actually, do you mean Lore Warden?

I thought duelists had to use a piercing weapon. Isn't the Aldori considered a slashing weapon or is this considered an exception?


With the APG, Mobile fighter & free-hand fighter are good fighter archetypes for working towards duelist. I believe the other one mentioned comes from a campaign setting supplement.


I think Freehand Fighter 6/Duelist is all you need

Take Weapon Finesse at level 1, dodge, and toughness
then Dervish Dance at lv2

Then work towards the feat requirements or duelist

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

The Aldori Sword is slashing, but is considered an exception to the requirement for the Duelist class if you have EWP Aldori Sword.

Favorite this link.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/

It has absolutely everything you could want for the rules.

yes, I meant Lore Warden.

Find the Pathfinder Wiki, and you'll be able to access most of the campaign world information, too.

Both sites do a bang up job of making information available to those of us low on funds.

Keep in mind that a duelist has two approaches: A nimble fighter who bounces in and hits and bounces away, which is a Spring Attacking Vital Striker build.

The other is a master swordsman using only a weapon in one hand to defend himself, which is what Crane Wing/Aldori Sword wielder is geared towards, with superb defensive benefits when using one blade.

==Aelryinth

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Dervish Dance is scimitars. Duelist requires a piercing weapon, with the specific exception of an Aldori sword (which is also finessable).

==Aelryinth

Sovereign Court

I presently have a Free Hand Fighter 6/Duelist 1. Of my five remaining levels, at least one or two will be Fighter. I took Aldori Dueling Mastery which has four prerequisite feats.

I think you have to think ahead in terms of feats and traits.

You could achieve a similar effect earlier by going Beast Master (Ranger) 1 Free Hand Fighter 11. I feel the skills are what make a swashbuckling character work.

thanks,

Kodger


Aelryinth wrote:

The Aldori Sword is slashing, but is considered an exception to the requirement for the Duelist class if you have EWP Aldori Sword.

Favorite this link.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/

It has absolutely everything you could want for the rules.

yes, I meant Lore Warden.

Find the Pathfinder Wiki, and you'll be able to access most of the campaign world information, too.

Both sites do a bang up job of making information available to those of us low on funds.

Keep in mind that a duelist has two approaches: A nimble fighter who bounces in and hits and bounces away, which is a Spring Attacking Vital Striker build.

The other is a master swordsman using only a weapon in one hand to defend himself, which is what Crane Wing/Aldori Sword wielder is geared towards, with superb defensive benefits when using one blade.

==Aelryinth

Sadly, not a viable option, since Jason Bulhman clarified that using Vital Strike is a Standard Action. =/

Liberty's Edge

Aelryinth wrote:

Dervish Dance is scimitars. Duelist requires a piercing weapon, with the specific exception of an Aldori sword (which is also finessable).

==Aelryinth

Dervish Dance makes them count as Piercing for Class-related stuff, specifically so it works with Duelist.


Ope wrote:

OK, I’m new to Pathfinder and PFS. I’ll be playing in my first PFS game in a week or so and I’ve decided on what I want to play. I just feel drawn to the Duelist and have an image of the character in mind.

Here’s my character concept. As a boy, Devan was separated from his family while travelling in a caravan. He made his way to the nearest city. He survived using his speed and wits by stealing, begging fighting and the slight generosity from a few in the city. Eventually, he found his way aboard a ship, where he learned to sail and fight with a rapier or saber. Now that the sea is in his blood, he is setting out to make his fortune to purchase his own vessel to begin a life as a trader or pirate.

To meet my vision of his background, I like the idea of taking a little bit in both, but not sure how best to do it. Looks like I’ll need 3 levels rogue and 4 levels fighter or 2 levels rogue and 5 levels fighter.

Got a few questions and any help you can offer is much appreciated.

1. Good idea to mix fighter & rogue, or just stick to one class?

2. If I go 3 rogue & 4 fighter, should I do 4 & 4? Or, given that, should I just go 8 levels of rogue.

3. If mixing classes, can one use an archetype from each class (i.e. mobile-fighter & swashbuckler-rogue)?

4. If one has two classes, do benefits from different feats & abilities stack? For instance, if one takes Power Attack & has Sneak Attack, can they both be applied?

5. Do Prestige Classes continue to gain feats every other level like base classes or do they only get their PrC class benefits?

6. Is there something else that would meet my character concept easier?

If you are going to mix rogue/fighter your best bet is probably 4 levels of rogue and 3 levels of fighter. Use the free-hand fighter archetype. However consider I would advise Ninja instead instead of Rogue, they are very cool and fit the duelist archetype better and can come with some neater tricks, yay for Ninja Ki pool.

I've already specced dueliest to 16th level with three different builds. One Fighter/Duelist, one Ninja/Monk/Duelist and a Ninja/Magus/Duelist. If you are interested in seeing any of them let me know and I'll post a stat block from Hero Lab.


Hawktitan,

Since you're willing. I'd like to take a look at the 1st & 2nd. Pretty sure we can leave the Magus one out.

Thanks. Actually, thanks to all already. Several good ideas here. I appreciate all the help.


I rebuilt these builds to level 12, which was fairly simple but I haven't redone the gear. 15 point buy stats, so there is even room to make them better. Human Race for both

level 6 Fighter (free hand fighter archetype) / Duelist
This is one of the easiest way to build a duelist in my opinion and I think the build is fairly straight forward. Only piece of gear given was a scimitar.

Str - 12
Dex - 20
Con - 14
Int - 14
Wisdom - 10
Cha - 7

Feats-
Crane Style
Crane Wing
Crane Riposte
Dervish Dance
Dodge
Improved Unarmed Strike
Mobility
Step Up
Weapon Finesse
Weapon Focus (Scimitar)
Weapon Specialization (Scimitar)

Hero Lab statblock -

FIGHTER/DUELIST CR 11
Male Human Duelist 6 Fighter (Free Hand Fighter) 6
NG Medium Humanoid (Human)
Init +7; Senses Perception +15
--------------------
DEFENSE
--------------------
AC 21, touch 21, flat-footed 10 (+7 Dex, +4 dodge)
hp 100 (12d10+24)
Fort +9, Ref +12, Will +4
Defensive Abilities Canny Defense +2, Parry
--------------------
OFFENSE
--------------------
Spd 30 ft.
Melee Scimitar +19/+14/+9 (1d6+14/18-20/x2) and

Special Attacks Precise Strike, Riposte
--------------------
STATISTICS
--------------------
Str 12, Dex 20, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 7
Base Atk +12; CMB +13 (+15 Disarming); CMD 34 (36 vs. Disarm)
Feats Combat Reflexes (6 AoO/round), Crane Riposte, Crane Style, Crane Wing, Dervish Dance, Dodge, Improved Unarmed Strike, Mobility, Step Up, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus: Scimitar, Weapon Specialization: Scimitar
Skills Acrobatics +20, Bluff +12, Escape Artist +20, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +6, Knowledge (Engineering) +6, Perception +15, Perform (Dance) +3, Ride +9, Sense Motive +13, Spellcraft +12
Languages Celestial, Common, Draconic, Elven, Halfling, Infernal
SQ Acrobatic Charge (Ex), Deceptive Strike +2 (Ex), Elusive +2 (Ex), Enhanced Mobility (Ex)
Combat Gear Scimitar;
--------------------
SPECIAL ABILITIES
--------------------
Acrobatic Charge (Ex) You can charge over difficult terrain.
Canny Defense +2 (Ex) +INT bonus to AC (max Duelist level).
Combat Reflexes (6 AoO/round) You may make up to 6 attacks of opportunity per round, and may make them while flat-footed.
Crane Riposte When you deflect an attack, you may make an attack of opportunity
Crane Style Take -2 penalty when fighting defensively
Crane Wing May deflect one attack per round while fighting defensively or using total defense
Deceptive Strike +2 (Ex) +2 to Disarm CMB/CMD, Bluff checks to feint or create a diversion to hide.
Dervish Dance Use Dex modifier instead of Str modifier with scimitar
Elusive +2 (Ex) +2 Dodge AC
Enhanced Mobility (Ex) +4 AC vs attacks of opportunity while moving out of a square.
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Mobility +4 to AC against some attacks of opportunity.
Parry (Ex) Forego an attack to defend against enemy attacks.
Precise Strike (Ex) Extra damage when using light / 1-handed Piercing weapons.
Riposte (Ex) AoO when you parry.
Singleton +1 (Ex) +1 to hit and damage when weilding a one-handed melee weapon.
Step Up You may make a 5' step closer when your opponent makes a 5' step away from you.

Monk/Ninja build is a little more tricky.

Level 4 Monk (Flowing Monk archetype) / Level 4 Ninja / Level 4 Duelist
Take extra ki for favored bonus. I like cleanliness and truth vows, but you can take whatever you desire. Use your fists while a monk, a light weapon when a ninja and dervish dance with a scimitar when a duelist.

Str - 11
Dex - 18
Con - 14
Int - 14
Wis - 14
Cha - 7

Special Abilities of note from Monk
Ki Pool
Redirection (Yay trips)
Evasion
Unbalancing Counter (Possible to make people flat-footed with AoOs, allowing you to hit easier and gets your Sneak-Attack damage in)
Wisdom to AC
Flowing Dodge (more AC)

Special Abilities of note from Ninja
More Ki (see Monk)
Vanishing Trick (Yay invisibity)
Shadow Clone (Yay Mirror image)
Sneak Attack (2d6)
Uncanny Dodge
Ki Attack Speed

Special Abilities of note from Duelist
Int to AC
Precise Strike
Parry

Adding a couple more levels would be nice, but PFS ends here. You'd get Parry and Greater Trip and things really become fun then.

Feat breakdown -
Crane Riposte
Crane Style
Crane Wing
Dervish Dance
Dodge
Improved Trip
Mobility
Weapon Finesse

Hero lab statblock

NinjaMonkDuelist HERO CR 11
Male Human Duelist 4 Monk (Flowing Monk) 4 Ninja 4
LN Medium Humanoid (Human)
Init +6; Senses Perception +17
--------------------
DEFENSE
--------------------
AC 20, touch 20, flat-footed 13 (+6 Dex, +1 dodge)
hp 86 (4d10+8d8+24)
Fort +8, Ref +16, Will +8
Defensive Abilities Canny Defense +2, Evasion, Parry, Uncanny Dodge
--------------------
OFFENSE
--------------------
Spd 30 ft.
Melee Scimitar +14/+9 (1d6+8/18-20/x2) and
Unarmed Strike +14/+9 (1d8/20/x2)
Special Attacks Flurry of Blows +2/+2, Ki Attack Speed, Ki Strike, Magic, Precise Strike, Sneak Attack +2d6
Spell-Like Abilities Shadow Clone, Vanishing Trick
--------------------
STATISTICS
--------------------
Str 11, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 7
Base Atk +10; CMB +11 (+13 Tripping); CMD 30 (32 vs. Trip)
Feats Combat Reflexes (5 AoO/round), Crane Riposte, Crane Style, Crane Wing, Dervish Dance, Dodge, Improved Trip, Improved Unarmed Strike, Mobility, Monk Weapon Proficiencies, Weapon Finesse
Skills Acrobatics +19, Bluff +13, Climb +4, Disguise +2, Escape Artist +19, Intimidate +2, Knowledge (Arcana) +3, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +3, Knowledge (Engineering) +3, Knowledge (Geography) +3, Knowledge (History) +6, Knowledge (Local) +6, Knowledge (Nobility) +6, Knowledge (Religion) +6, Perception +17, Perform (Dance) +3, Ride +8, Sense Motive +17, Sleight of Hand +8, Stealth +19, Swim +4, Use Magic Device +13 Modifiers Ki Jump (Running Start), No Trace +1
Languages Common, Elven, Halfling
SQ AC Bonus +3, Enhanced Mobility (Ex), Flowing Dodge (maximum +2) (Ex), Ki Defense (Su), Ki Movement, Ki Pool (Su), Ki Stealth, Maneuver Training (Ex), Poison Use, Redirection (4/day) (DC 16) (Ex), Slow Fall 20' (Ex), Unarmed Strike (1d8), Unbalancing Counter (DC 14) (Ex), Vow of Cleanliness (+1 Ki), Vow of Truth (+1 Ki)
Combat Gear Scimitar;
--------------------
SPECIAL ABILITIES
--------------------
AC Bonus +3 The Monk adds his Wisdom bonus to AC and CMD, more at higher levels.
Canny Defense +2 (Ex) +INT bonus to AC (max Duelist level).
Combat Reflexes (5 AoO/round) You may make up to 5 attacks of opportunity per round, and may make them while flat-footed.
Crane Riposte When you deflect an attack, you may make an attack of opportunity
Crane Style Take -2 penalty when fighting defensively
Crane Wing May deflect one attack per round while fighting defensively or using total defense
Dervish Dance Use Dex modifier instead of Str modifier with scimitar
Enhanced Mobility (Ex) +4 AC vs attacks of opportunity while moving out of a square.
Evasion (Ex) If you succeed at a Reflex save for half damage, you take none instead.
Flowing Dodge (maximum +2) (Ex) At 3rd level, a flowing monk gains a +1 dodge bonus to AC for each enemy adjacent to him, up to a maximum bonus equal to his Wisdom modifier (minimum 1). This ability replaces fast movement.
Flurry of Blows +2/+2 (Ex) Make Flurry of Blows attack as a full action.
Improved Trip You Trip at +2 and don't cause an attack of opportunity.
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Ki Attack Speed (Su) By spending 1 point from her ki pool, a ninja can make one additional attack at her highest attack bonus, but she can do so only when making a full attack.
Ki Defense (Su) A monk can spend 1 point from his ki pool to give himself a +4 dodge bonus to AC for 1 round.
Ki Jump (Running Start) (Su) Jumping is always counted as being at a running start.
Ki Movement A Ninja can spend 1 point to increase her speed by 20 feet for 1 round.
Ki Pool (Su) You have a ki pool equal to 1/2 your monk level + your Charisma modifier.
Ki Stealth A ninja can spend 1 point from her ki pool to give herself a +4 insight bonus on Stealth skill checks for 1 round.
Ki Strike, Magic (Su) At 4th level, ki strike allows a monk's unarmed attacks to be treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
Maneuver Training (Ex) CMB = other BABs + Monk level
Mobility +4 to AC against some attacks of opportunity.
No Trace +1 (Ex) Survival DCs to track you are at +1, gain +1 to Disguise and Stealth when you are stationary and not acting.
Parry (Ex) Forego an attack to defend against enemy attacks.
Poison Use You don't accidentally poison yourself with blades.
Precise Strike (Ex) Extra damage when using light / 1-handed Piercing weapons.
Redirection (4/day) (DC 16) (Ex) At 1st level, as an immediate action, a flowing monk can attempt a reposition or trip combat maneuver against a creature that the flowing monk threatens and that attacks him. If the combat maneuver is successful, the attacker is sickened for 1 round
Shadow Clone (Su) The ninja can create 1d4 shadowy duplicates of herself that conceal her true location. This ability functions as mirror image, using the ninja's level as her caster level. Using this ability is a standard action that uses up 1 ki point.
Slow Fall 20' (Ex) Treat a fall as shorter than normal if within arm's reach of a wall.
Sneak Attack +2d6 +2d6 damage if you flank your target or your target is flat-footed.
Unarmed Strike (1d8) The Monk does lethal damage with his unarmed strikes.
Unbalancing Counter (DC 14) (Ex) At 2nd level, a flowing monk's attacks of opportunity render a struck creature flat-footed until the end of the flowing monk's next turn (Reflex DC 10 + 1/2 the monk's level + Wisdom modifier negates). This ability replaces the bonus feat gained at 2
Uncanny Dodge (Ex) Retain Dex bonus to AC when flat-footed.
Vanishing Trick (Su) As a swift action, the ninja can disappear for 1 round per level. This ability functions as invisibility. Using this ability uses up 1 ki point.
Vow of Cleanliness (+1 Ki) A monk undertaking this vow must wash daily. He must change into fresh clothes daily or shortly after his robes become dirty. His appearance must be kept immaculate, including either neatly braiding or shaving off his hair (and, for male monks, maint
Vow of Truth (+1 Ki) The monk is not allowed to deliberately speak any lies, including bluffing, stating half-truths with the intent to deceive, exaggerating, telling white lies, and so on. This applies to all forms of communication.


Just chiming in to say props on such a cool sounding character. Nice and simple and plenty of cool potential. One of my first characters was a gnome duelist, and I made a lot of BIG mistakes in building him that meant I was really useless in a straight up fight compared to my party members. By the looks of things you're really on the right track, so good luck in your game.

You'll essentially want to find some nice, reliable sources of damage. A moderate strength score (13-16)** should be pretty achievable, and will let you take the power attack feat for another nice spike to damage before you invest in the duelist prerequisites. As well as these I'd look at weapon specialisation or a few rogue levels worth of sneak attack to top it off. Personally I prefer the former. Once you start levelling up as a duelist, your precise strike damage will add to this, but you simply can't rely on ONLY your precise strike to pull out decent damage. **unless you can get your dex to damage somehow. However in this case I'd still reccomend 13 str, for both power attack and for adding to your combat manuevers, which with decent str and BAB (as well as power attack and combat expertise to open up the improved feats) should be pretty strong.

There's a lot of great advice in this thread. I personally stuck with Core stuff because I find Ultimate Combat easy to get lost in with its sheer array of (some good, some horrendous) options, so I wouldnt want to thrust it on a new player.

Other stuff:
If you're still looking for other options, I'd consider the fighter (core or with the cad archetype)following the above advice or a straight rogue with everything but power attack. Also don't forget you can spread your skill points around as you level, putting a point into as many class skills as you like. Even your fighter levels with the favored class and human bonus, not to mention your intellegence bonus, should give you a nice pile of 'em.

Remember, if you start at level one you can always change your mind later, so I'd reccomend jumping in as a fighter and getting a feel for your options.


I was just conceptualizing one of these last night an here is what I came up with for a level 11.

6 Free Hand Fighter / 5 Duelist

Feats
1 Dodge (Level 1 Feat)
1 Mobility (Human Feat)
1 Weapon Focus (Raiper) (Fighter Feat)
2 Pirhana Strike (Fighter Feat)
3 Quick Draw (Fighter Feat)
4 Weapon Spec (Raiper)
5 Spring Attack (Fighter Feat)
6 1st level of Duelist
7 Vital Strike (Level 7 Feat) (2nd level duelist)
8 Improved Critical (Rapier) (6th level Fighter feat)
9 Devastating Strike (Level 9 Feat, 3rd level duelist)
10 5th level duelist
11 Improved Weapon Focus (11th level feat, 5th level duelist)

Str 10
Dex 23
Con 16
Int 14
Wis 12
Cha 8

HP= 118 (1st level full hit die + con mod. Every level after is 3/4 hit die, rounded down, + con mod. Favored class Duelist, all levels into + HP)
AC= 26 +8 (vs. AoO)
CMD= 26
CMB= 11

Saves
Fort=10
Ref=13
Will=4

Init=8

BaB = 11/6/1

To hit = 22/17/12 (-3 Prihana)

To damage= 1d6+14 (+6 Prihana) (+2 Devistating)

Items
Raiper +2 (agile) 18k
Belt of Dex +2 4k
Headband of Int +2 4k
Mithral Studded Leather +1 (4 AC + 6/7 Dex) 2k
Amulet of Natural Armour +2 8k
Pink Rhomboid Ioun Stone +2 Con 8K
44K Total
Roughly 40k to spend on rolled or chosen items.


Joanna Swiftblade wrote:

I was just conceptualizing one of these last night an here is what I came up with for a level 11.

6 Free Hand Fighter / 5 Duelist

Feats
1 Dodge (Level 1 Feat)
1 Mobility (Human Feat)
1 Weapon Focus (Raiper) (Fighter Feat)
2 Pirhana Strike (Fighter Feat)
3 Quick Draw (Fighter Feat)
4 Weapon Spec (Raiper)
5 Spring Attack (Fighter Feat)
6 1st level of Duelist
7 Vital Strike (Level 7 Feat) (2nd level duelist)
8 Improved Critical (Rapier) (6th level Fighter feat)
9 Devastating Strike (Level 9 Feat, 3rd level duelist)
10 5th level duelist
11 Improved Weapon Focus (11th level feat, 5th level duelist)

Str 10
Dex 23
Con 16
Int 14
Wis 12
Cha 8

HP= 118 (1st level full hit die + con mod. Every level after is 3/4 hit die, rounded down, + con mod. Favored class Duelist, all levels into + HP)
AC= 26 +8 (vs. AoO)
CMD= 26
CMB= 11

Saves
Fort=10
Ref=13
Will=4

Init=8

BaB = 11/6/1

To hit = 22/17/12 (-3 Prihana)

To damage= 1d6+14 (+6 Prihana) (+2 Devistating)

Items
Raiper +2 (agile) 18k
Belt of Dex +2 4k
Headband of Int +2 4k
Mithral Studded Leather +1 (4 AC + 6/7 Dex) 2k
Amulet of Natural Armour +2 8k
Pink Rhomboid Ioun Stone +2 Con 8K
44K Total
Roughly 40k to spend on rolled or chosen items.

A few things wrong here - you can't vital strike and spring attack. Additionally you can't favored class for Duelist, it would need to be Fighter. I would also do average HP rather then 3/4 hp when designing a character concept but that's just me. Did you use a 25 point buy for this guy? The stats look high, but good.


Hawktitan wrote:

I've already specced dueliest to 16th level with three different builds. One Fighter/Duelist, one Ninja/Monk/Duelist and a Ninja/Magus/Duelist. If you are interested in seeing any of them let me know and I'll post a stat block from Hero Lab.

Hawktitan, could you please post the Ninja/Magus/Duelist build? I was toying with the concept of going Ninja/Magus (and more specifically kensai for the flavor) but could not find a way to make it work. Maybe I could get some insight from your build.


So, was just scanning http://www.d20pfsrd.com/. (Thanks again Aelryinth.

The Corsair fighter archetype seems like an appropriate route for the back-story I have in mind. Is that allowed in PFS? I'm not really sure what sources are fair game. Granted, I have no idea how well it will work, but I sort of like it.


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Ope wrote:


To meet my vision of his background, I like the idea of taking a little bit in both, but not sure how best to do it.

You don't need class mechanics to satisfy your ideas for your PC. Taking ranks in sleight of hand makes you as much of the thief that you described for example. You could even pick up a trait to make it a class skill should you wish to do so.

Its easy to get hung up on mechanical names for a class and confuse that for roleplaying choices. With the exception of the summoner, no PC has their class tattooed on their forehead.

Likewise even your goal of 'duelist' is not the roleplaying goal, but rather the mechanical one. Your character could be a 'duelist' and yet mechanically have only levels in fighter.

My advice is list out all that you want out of the character. Rate these by 'must have', 'really want' and 'kinda nice'. Then list out what you don't want with similar ratings.

This can help you keep in mind what you really want and not get confused or flim/flammed into buying a lemon,

James

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Don't thank me, thank the guys who run that site. it's awesome!

:)

==Aelryinth

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

If you're going the Duelist route, you NEED Power Attack or Piranha Strike, it's no-str cousin, to keep up with the damage as you level. Keep in mind that you are losing the Weapon Group training of the Fighter, exchanging +3/+3 for +3d6 of Precision damage. Scimitars are also geared for crit feats, but you won't have a lot of feats to spare for such things until very high level.

At this point, I'd say you probably want to do the scimitar/saber route, with Dervish Dance. Keep in mind you'll still need Weapon Finesse, so your feat cost is going to be tight.

If you decide you want to do the Aldori sword route, that's also feat intensive, and I'd say you probably want to go all the way to level 10 before taking your first level of Duelist...lots of feats to grab!

==Aelryinth


For duelists, elf ALCHEMIST make surprisingly good base. Hear me out:

- You need int to be a good duelist, and int to be a good alchemist.
- The vivisectionist archetype trades bombs for sneak attack.
- You have good fort and reflex save, which a fighter/rogue would have as well
- You have tons of combat buffs to compensate for light armor and no shield
- You get constructive use of your otherwise empty off-hand (potions, infusions, mutagens)
- You can qualify at lv8 (same as rogue)
- Elves get bonuses to both primary stats, and proficiency in rapiers, the go-to weapon for duelists
- Poison use and crafting, which helps the skirmisher type. Swift action to use poison at lv6.

And more.


I agree with Kamelguru. Although I would also add that 4 levels of Alchemist/vivisectionist and three of Fighter/Weapon master is a fine build gaining many fine abilities.


j maissen - I understand your point fully. Pathfinder just offers so many options (one could argue too many too a new player) that it is almost overwhelming. Guess I was just looking for advice as I'd rather not put several levels into a character and find I've taken choices which make that character not effective. Or worse, end up with a character nothing like I envisioned.

Kamelguru - that is an interesting proposal. Not at all what I had in mind, but sounds like it would be a great option for the future.

Thanks again to all. I really appreciate all the guidance, suggestions and support.

-Ope


Sorry for the late response. First of all I wouldn't archetype a Ninja/Magus/Duelist. Spell Recall is too important to make sure you have the right spells over the course of multiple fights. If you wanted to archetype go Magus 8 /Duelist X instead and I'd go crazy and pick up both Kensai and Blackblade.

Magus 4 / Ninja 4 / Duelist 8
Half Orc (Mainly for Darkvision)

Magus

Arcane Pool - Arcane Accuracy

Sample Spell Selection

Arcane Mark
Detect Magic
Ghost Sound
Mage Hand

Shield
True Strike
Shocking Grasp
Chill Touch

Darkness (Remember you are a half-orc)
Web

Ninja

Tricks-
Shadow Clones
Vanishing Trick

Other-
Uncanny Dodge
Sneak Attack
Ki Pool

Feat Selection
Combat Casting
Dervish Dance
Dodge
Extra Arane Pool
Extra Ki
Hammer the Gap
Mobility
Weapon Finesse

Traits-
Magical Knack
Reactionary

One nice thing with this build is just how many attacks at your full BAB you can get with this build like this. While iteratives are great they are also less likely to land. You can get your normal one, Magus Spellstrike, Ki Attack Speed, hopefully haste (from another caster or you can lie, cheat, beg or steal Boots of Speed). You can also go defensive pretty fast with Shadow Clone + Darkness in a single round. Pay attention to your defensive casting. Magical Knack lets you cast as a level 6 magus (with appropriate concentration check bonuses).

Alternatives -
I take Vanishing Trick and Shadow Clone with Ninja, but you could also go human, and use ninja tricks for additional feats. Use Vanish and/or Mirror image spells and work toward the Crane Style chain. Depending on your stat buy and items you might want to get Uncanny Concentration as well.

Silver Crusade

Ope wrote:
Here’s my character concept. As a boy, Devan was separated from his family while travelling in a caravan. He made his way to the nearest city. He survived using his speed and wits by stealing, begging fighting and the slight generosity from a few in the city. Eventually, he found his way aboard a ship, where he learned to sail and fight with a rapier or saber. Now that the sea is in his blood, he is setting out to make his fortune to purchase his own vessel to begin a life as a trader or pirate.

Trait : Vagabond Child (urban)You grew up among the outcasts and outlaws of your society, learning to forage and survive in an urban environment.

Benefit: Select one of the following skills: Disable Device, Escape Artist, or Sleight of Hand. You gain a +1 trait bonus on that skill, and it is always a class skill for you.

I'm guessing this character is for Skulls and Shackles AP.
Trait : Touched by the Sea: You’ve always felt the call of the
sea and your blood surges with the ebb and f low of the
tides. Perhaps one of your parents was a sailor or pirate,
or maybe one of your ancestors had a bit of aquatic elf
or undine blood in them. Whatever the reason, you’re as
comfortable in the water as you are on land. You gain a
+1 trait bonus on Swim checks and Swim is a class skill
for you. In addition, penalties on attack rolls made
underwater are lessened by 1.

Now that the back ground is coverd for almost any class.
Bard level 8 can go in to Duelist. You realy don't need to with a bard. As the bard can do every thing the Duelist can. With a few low level spells. Making picking up the PC more of a set back then a step forward. Plus all your back ground skills start as class skills for bards. With the exception of Disable Device (See Vagabond Child).

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