Fire and building / object burning rules?


Rules Questions

The Exchange

ok since skull and shackles is out I anticipate a few fireballs, explosive alchemist bombs etc to be thrown about.

So my question is where are rules for let's say a ship caught on fire? How does it spread? How is it put out? Or other rules. In the naval combat section of the skull and shackles players guide it lists spells such as fireball catching a ship on fire.

Thanx


The only rules for catching on fire in the CRB are those relating to creatures, rather than objects. Being on fire deals 1d6 per round with a DC 15 Reflex save to be extinguished. Assuming it is the same for objects, a ship would take 1d6 damage per round until the flames are put out. Most objects take only half damage from elemental sources and then apply hardness, meaning fire would generally do no actual hit point damage to a ship, however it is noted that some elemental attacks are particularly effective and deal double damage and ignore the object's hardness (possibly fire to wood), meaning that a ship would take 2d6 fire damage per round ignoring hardness if afire. Fire is extinguished via a DC 15 Reflex saving throw (only creatures, magic objects, and attended objects recieve saving throws, smothering the flame provides a +4 bonus on the saving throw), or automatically by being doused with a sufficient quantity of water. Quickly browsing the vehicle section of UC, I see no rules on how fire spreads; it looks to be for GMs to decide.

Dark Archive

The Elusive Jackalope wrote:
The only rules for catching on fire in the CRB are those relating to creatures, rather than objects. Being on fire deals 1d6 per round with a DC 15 Reflex save to be extinguished. Assuming it is the same for objects, a ship would take 1d6 damage per round until the flames are put out. Most objects take only half damage from elemental sources and then apply hardness, meaning fire would generally do no actual hit point damage to a ship, however it is noted that some elemental attacks are particularly effective and deal double damage and ignore the object's hardness (possibly fire to wood), meaning that a ship would take 2d6 fire damage per round ignoring hardness if afire. Fire is extinguished via a DC 15 Reflex saving throw (only creatures, magic objects, and attended objects recieve saving throws, smothering the flame provides a +4 bonus on the saving throw), or automatically by being doused with a sufficient quantity of water. Quickly browsing the vehicle section of UC, I see no rules on how fire spreads; it looks to be for GMs to decide.

I was under the impression that objects took half damage from elemental sources, but did not have hardness applied.

Liberty's Edge

Mergy wrote:
The Elusive Jackalope wrote:
The only rules for catching on fire in the CRB are those relating to creatures, rather than objects. Being on fire deals 1d6 per round with a DC 15 Reflex save to be extinguished. Assuming it is the same for objects, a ship would take 1d6 damage per round until the flames are put out. Most objects take only half damage from elemental sources and then apply hardness, meaning fire would generally do no actual hit point damage to a ship, however it is noted that some elemental attacks are particularly effective and deal double damage and ignore the object's hardness (possibly fire to wood), meaning that a ship would take 2d6 fire damage per round ignoring hardness if afire. Fire is extinguished via a DC 15 Reflex saving throw (only creatures, magic objects, and attended objects recieve saving throws, smothering the flame provides a +4 bonus on the saving throw), or automatically by being doused with a sufficient quantity of water. Quickly browsing the vehicle section of UC, I see no rules on how fire spreads; it looks to be for GMs to decide.
I was under the impression that objects took half damage from elemental sources, but did not have hardness applied.

Nope. Hardness is applied as well.

Quote:

Energy Attacks

Energy attacks deal half damage to most objects. Divide the damage by 2 before applying the object's hardness. Some energy types might be particularly effective against certain objects, subject to GM discretion. For example, fire might do full damage against parchment, cloth, and other objects that burn easily. Sonic might do full damage against glass and crystal objects.

RAW does not mention ignoring hardness, just avoiding the half-damage clause. This means that wood would only take 1 damage every 6 rounds from being on fire.

However, that's not terribly unrealistic. That would be 10 damage per minute. After about 10 minutes, that's 100 damage and enough to burn through 10 inches of wood, which in turn would cause a collapse of most load-bearing wooden structures. (Note: Because of the long time it would take, I'd just take an average rather than rolling damage.)

The sail, on the other hand, would go much more quickly.

Dark Archive

Ah, well my character's +1 sword was almost destroyed by a remorhaz for nothing!


StabbittyDoom wrote:
RAW does not mention ignoring hardness, just avoiding the half-damage clause.
The PRD wrote:
Vulnerability to Certain Attacks: Certain attacks are especially successful against some objects. In such cases, attacks deal double their normal damage and may ignore the object's hardness.

Dark Archive

Then again, thick, treated wood used in building tends to be quite difficult to burn.


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Mergy wrote:
Then again, thick, treated wood used in building tends to be quite difficult to burn.

I was under the impression that historical ships were sealed with pitch to be waterproof which caused fire to be a legitimate hazard, though a fantasy world doesn't need to analogue to real world history, so I guess the point is moot. Ships can be highly flammable or fire-resistant based on the GM.

It would be convienent if there were more rules for burning objects, though.

Liberty's Edge

The Elusive Jackalope wrote:
StabbittyDoom wrote:
RAW does not mention ignoring hardness, just avoiding the half-damage clause.
The PRD wrote:
Vulnerability to Certain Attacks: Certain attacks are especially successful against some objects. In such cases, attacks deal double their normal damage and may ignore the object's hardness.

Well color me embarrassed. Had to double-check to be sure that rule existed.

Its weird, though. Exactly what constitutes an "attack" in this context? Is a passive fire an "attack"? Sometimes I wish certain rules were more clearly written.

As written we have two different ways an object can be vulnerable: To attacks, and to energy. Does this mean that an axe deals double damage against a tree, while a fireball deals double (not halved, then doubled)? Or were those clauses meant to be applied in a mutually exclusive manner? And how does this relate to the "ineffective weapons" clause?

Also, it looks like ray spells get screwed in relation to sundering: They're both a ranged weapon (half damage) and an energy (half again).

Perhaps this is one of those segments that could use a good FAQing.


StabbittyDoom wrote:
Also, it looks like ray spells get screwed in relation to sundering: They're both a ranged weapon (half damage) and an energy (half again).

It would look really cool to be able to melt someone's sword with with a scorching ray, wouldn't it?

StabbityDoom wrote:
Perhaps this is one of those segments that could use a good FAQing.

I'd second that. These are the sort of rules that don't come up very often, but when they do, they can be pretty important.

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