My EK generally use the BS...but even then, it is only a difference of 3 damage on average. For a spell that kicks in at level 17 (although you can use undead form 3 for huge form sooner). On a side note, you can enlarge person yourself for even bigger damage dice as giants are humanoids and enlarge person is not a polymorph effect for a slight bigger boost in damage (but mostly for reach). In anycase, it is something that comes up REALLY late game, and I pick the BS because I like them mostly. My favorite sword in real life is a BS. But mechanically, yeah complete dud.I think that bastard sword hits a great sweetspot. If you use it marshally it is a two hander if you take the feat you get a bump to damage die. I think this fits very nicely for the standard sword and board type.Meh. If Weapon Specialization wasn't Fighter only there would be no reason to take bastard sword proficency. All it does is increase your damage range by two. Weapon Specialization increases every damage roll by two.Spending a feat on Weapon Focus and wielding a Longsword would be just as good as spending a feat and wielding a bastard sword in one hand. Weapon specialization isn't even necessary. :\
The +5% hit goes a lot farther than +1 average damage. That being said, there is one situation where bastard swords get better results and that's when you're enlarged out of your mind. An eldritch knight using Giant Form II might get a bit more mileage out of a bastard sword, but even then it's probably not worth the investment.
EDIT: For those with feats to burn, Weapon Focus + Power Attack = +2-3 damage at 1st level with nothing lost, and +5% to hit when you don't wanna Power Attack.
Sadly that is an illegal tactic. You cannot use enlarge person on someone whose been polymorphed, even if the type of creature they have been turned into would be a legal target for the spell.
You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell. In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell.
What about things like half elfs do they get the interesting use of bastard sword through the racial optoin that gives them weapon proficency.
What is "interesting use" in +1 damage?
What? All melee weapons sneak attack for exactly the same damage. Critting doesn't increase your sneak attack damage.If something crits quite commonly, and you add sneak to that... It is very effective.
Of course sneak is not multiplied.
Taking a x3 weapon really pays off for a sneak attack if you get the 20, not so much if you never see a 20, but get plenty of 18s, 19s, etc.
...how so?
Say you're a first level rogue, stabbing people for 1d6+2 damage. You get a crit and deal 2d6+4 damage. Sweet!
If you're sneak attacking, you deal 2d6+2 damage or 3d6+4 damage. There's no increased effectiveness for sneak attacking and critting on the same attack, that's a fallacy. It doesn't matter if you got a sneak attack one round and a crit the next, or if both happened on the same attack.
Just taking a step back from math for a moment. Having been someone that's trained in different types of swordplay, both western, eastern and fencing. (Which is radically different) and competed on the college level in the last.... Using a Bastard sword or "Hand and a half" sword is different from simple one handed swords, long sords, or great swords. It's not 'just one or the other when you feel like it.'.
Someone on the first page pointed out that they typically have longer grips and this is true, but they are designed, on purpose to be functional one handed or two. The grip helps give counter ballance as well as lengthen the lever action of the weapon and the force of the strikes, while maintaining the finer manipulation and grace of the blade. It's not like it's "A two handed weapon that if you're REALLY good you can use One handed" nor is it "A one handed weapon that if you're REALLY good you can use two handed" It's a hybrid. It's designed to be used as both a one and two handed weapon, more or less at the same time. You wouldn't pick up one and a shield and go 'Today I'm using it as a one hander, sword and board!! YEAH'. It's not really like that. To get the intended usage out of it you would use it 1 and 2 handed in the same fight, depending on the ebb and flow of combat. You might make one handed strikes or two, you might parry some blows with one or if needed two.
That's the beauty of the weapon, is the versatility with in the single combat. NOT "I can use a shield, or I can use it like a great sword! MUAHAHAHA".
If someone's trained in using one, they're not going to have something in their other hand. That hand would be used for fully half if not more (Depending on need and style) in any combat.
Now.. game mechanics are an attempt to give 'rules' and 'limitations' to real life so we don't have one guy going 'I stabbed you' and the other guy going "no you didn't!" and the first guy going "Yes I did!"
So some people ARE going to try and use Hand and a half swords as 'one handers' to get the benefit and extra damage and what not. *shrugs* No matter what RPG there is, SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE will try and twink the math.
For those people, I recommend picking up the Pathfinder Core book... and WACKING THEM Right in the head!
For everyone else. I'd just not make it exotic. It does use a different way of fighting than a standard sword, or a great sword, but every sword you pick up is used differently. Be it broad sword, long sword, hand and a half (Bastard) sword, Katana, Nodachi, Ninja-to, Claymore, basket hilt claymore, rapier, ect ect ect. Making one require a feat to use, but not others is a bit weird to me. If it was a 6 or 7 foot great sword or Nodachi, I might could see it, because you just don't use weapons like that in the same way as 'most swords'. But the difference between a "long sword" or 'Hand and a half sword" you're talking a few inches of blade or handle. It's how you USE the weapon that really defines it. And as pointed out more than once, the 'term' or 'definition' isn't consistent. Far from it. You get 10 people in a room and ask them to divide up a number of blades into "long sword" "Hand and a half sword" and "Great swords" You'll get 11 different results.
|
@Pepsi: So, basically, you're saying that hand-and-a-half weapons in general are designed so you could use them with free-hand benefit in mind. IE: fight 1-h and use a style like Crane or Turtle or Free-hand Fighter abilities to take advantage of your free-hand, but when it comes time to hammer it home you can instantly give up the free-hand advantage to come down with a 1.5x str 2-h attack.
That is ONE way to use a longsword (not using the D&D or pre-hasting definition...bastard swords are basically what sword people and post hasting historians call longsword). You can use it one handed with a shield and WHEN your shield broke, you can use it in two for more power against armor. The type XIIa or XIII longswords would have been used more for this aspect. By the time of crecy and agincourt, armor had advanced enough that people who could afford these longswords would be in armor that made shield redundant and as such fought with them two handed, but could use it in one to grapple or what not. You general do not go one handed as often as pepsi says if you follow any of the historical fetchbooks...but if your fighting somebody who just wants to make it a no brainer to grab them...well then you can end up one handing pretty dang often :P .
On a side note, I actually like using a shield and a longsword. You can use the shield to cover your footwork to do some sneaky sneaky things with your reach.
What about things like half elfs do they get the interesting use of bastard sword through the racial optoin that gives them weapon proficency.What is "interesting use" in +1 damage?
Well, for some classes it's marginally better. For a cleric (except certain deities), it might be a boost of +1 damage and +1 threat range compared to a heavy mace. You'd still pick a falcata if you go by the numbers, but that's more of an issue with the falcata than all the other weapons.
And at 1st and 2nd level, +1 damage is pretty noticeable.
Not saying it's worth a feat, but it's no prone shooter.
I only take them if my PC is an evil offspring of a single mother.
In one game I'm running, a war criminal uses one.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
What about things like half elfs do they get the interesting use of bastard sword through the racial optoin that gives them weapon proficency.What is "interesting use" in +1 damage?Well, for some classes it's marginally better. For a cleric (except certain deities), it might be a boost of +1 damage and +1 threat range compared to a heavy mace. You'd still pick a falcata if you go by the numbers, but that's more of an issue with the falcata than all the other weapons.
And at 1st and 2nd level, +1 damage is pretty noticeable.
Not saying it's worth a feat, but it's no prone shooter.
I'd hate to think that a feat that does nothing is going to be the feat by which we judge the quality of other feats. Please, oh please, tell me that is not what the d20 system has come to. :(
Basically it comes down to it like this. If you can get bastard sword proficiency for "free" (IE - weapon familiarity, deity weapon, doppelganger racial trait) then it's worth having. If you're not in that excessively small window of individuals (dwarves get an axe-version of the bastard sword, the Waraxe), then it is bad and should feel bad.
Ironically, everything that is attributed to the style of the bastard sword exists in the standard longsword. It is actually a sword that you can 1 hand or 2 hand, with noticeable differences in between. I use longswords on my characters (be they PCs or NPCs) in the exact manner people like Pepsi Jedi infer. Heck, I use clubs in that way too. I've ignored greatswords vs longswords in the past because while the greatsword has +2.5 average damage over a longsword the longsword has the versatility to be wielded with a shield and without (and I'd rather have a weapon I can use with more options). I feel that's fairly optimal since the majority of your damage comes in the form of modifiers from ability scores, feats, static or activated abilities and so forth.
The bastard sword lives up to its name quite well. It has no place in D&D currently. All aspects of the bastard sword are included in the longsword, and the bastard sword itself exists only as a trap for newbies who have little understanding of what they are getting into.
@Pepsi: So, basically, you're saying that hand-and-a-half weapons in general are designed so you could use them with free-hand benefit in mind. IE: fight 1-h and use a style like Crane or Turtle or Free-hand Fighter abilities to take advantage of your free-hand, but when it comes time to hammer it home you can instantly give up the free-hand advantage to come down with a 1.5x str 2-h attack.
No.. I kinda mean you don't go in with a shield in your other hand, because you know going in you're going to use one hand, then two, then one, then two, all through the fight, depending on your need that second. You wouldn't hobble yourself with a shield at the start, as the POINT and style of the sword, is to use it to both attack and parry, instead of a shield. The style of fighting with one depends on that instant and constant ability to change and use either a one handed grip or two depending on your need.
It's not "I'll use one hand while I have a shield and if I drop it I'll use two"
You go in knowing you'll use both one and two handed grips from the first second.
|
|
What about things like half elfs do they get the interesting use of bastard sword through the racial optoin that gives them weapon proficency.What is "interesting use" in +1 damage?Well, for some classes it's marginally better. For a cleric (except certain deities), it might be a boost of +1 damage and +1 threat range compared to a heavy mace. You'd still pick a falcata if you go by the numbers, but that's more of an issue with the falcata than all the other weapons.
And at 1st and 2nd level, +1 damage is pretty noticeable.
Not saying it's worth a feat, but it's no prone shooter.
I'd hate to think that a feat that does nothing is going to be the feat by which we judge the quality of other feats. Please, oh please, tell me that is not what the d20 system has come to. :(
If it makes you feel any better, we can compare it to monkey lunge. I mean even prone shooter is a better choice then that one.
|
|
@Pepsi: So, basically, you're saying that hand-and-a-half weapons in general are designed so you could use them with free-hand benefit in mind. IE: fight 1-h and use a style like Crane or Turtle or Free-hand Fighter abilities to take advantage of your free-hand, but when it comes time to hammer it home you can instantly give up the free-hand advantage to come down with a 1.5x str 2-h attack.No.. I kinda mean you don't go in with a shield in your other hand, because you know going in you're going to use one hand, then two, then one, then two, all through the fight, depending on your need that second. You wouldn't hobble yourself with a shield at the start, as the POINT and style of the sword, is to use it to both attack and parry, instead of a shield. The style of fighting with one depends on that instant and constant ability to change and use either a one handed grip or two depending on your need.
It's not "I'll use one hand while I have a shield and if I drop it I'll use two"
You go in knowing you'll use both one and two handed grips from the first second.
That is what kazaan is talking about. You use the sword two handed, then switch to one to use crane style then back to two for damage.
I mentioned the shield for the era of the type XIIa and XIII as there is pretty strong historical evidence that they were used with a shield. Mostly on horseback...but not always. In anycase, in such a situation, the longsword is primarily a one handed weapon that you would switch to to AFTER your shield broke. Because shield did that sort of thing when hit repeatedly by sharp objects meant to chop wood. Course there is no fighting manual from back that far so we don't have a more direct written evidence like with later era longsword usage.
If it makes you feel any better, we can compare it to monkey lunge. I mean even prone shooter is a better choice then that one.What about things like half elfs do they get the interesting use of bastard sword through the racial optoin that gives them weapon proficency.What is "interesting use" in +1 damage?Well, for some classes it's marginally better. For a cleric (except certain deities), it might be a boost of +1 damage and +1 threat range compared to a heavy mace. You'd still pick a falcata if you go by the numbers, but that's more of an issue with the falcata than all the other weapons.
And at 1st and 2nd level, +1 damage is pretty noticeable.
Not saying it's worth a feat, but it's no prone shooter.
I'd hate to think that a feat that does nothing is going to be the feat by which we judge the quality of other feats. Please, oh please, tell me that is not what the d20 system has come to. :(
When you have to compare your car to a rusty car that is absent a motor system to make it seem like a good car, it's better to just design a new car.
|
|
When you have to compare your car to a rusty car that is absent a motor system to make it seem like a good car, it's better to just design a new car.
Could be worse...your car could be a GM. A rusty car absent a motor won't KILL you. Was in a rental malibu for a weekend...the driving dynamics of that car was bad enough to be dangerous. Who the heck puts in super soft springs and then increase the dampeners to the max to make up for the cheap cruddy springs? The ride was harsh but with absolutely NO control...even under moderate breaking, much less an emergency stop. Prone shooting is the rusty car absent engine (won't do anything)...monkey lunge is the GM car (will KILL you).
When you have to compare your car to a rusty car that is absent a motor system to make it seem like a good car, it's better to just design a new car.Could be worse...your car could be a GM. A rusty car absent a motor won't KILL you. Was in a rental malibu for a weekend...the driving dynamics of that car was bad enough to be dangerous. Who the heck puts in super soft springs and then increase the dampeners to the max to make up for the cheap cruddy springs? The ride was harsh but with absolutely NO control...even under moderate breaking, much less an emergency stop. Prone shooting is the rusty car absent engine (won't do anything)...monkey lunge is the GM car (will KILL you).
I dunno. Paying to put gas in a car that won't run (but apparently consumes as much fuel as a car that will) is a good way to starve to death.
|
|
I dunno. Paying to put gas in a car that won't run (but apparently consumes as much fuel as a car that will) is a good way to starve to death.When you have to compare your car to a rusty car that is absent a motor system to make it seem like a good car, it's better to just design a new car.Could be worse...your car could be a GM. A rusty car absent a motor won't KILL you. Was in a rental malibu for a weekend...the driving dynamics of that car was bad enough to be dangerous. Who the heck puts in super soft springs and then increase the dampeners to the max to make up for the cheap cruddy springs? The ride was harsh but with absolutely NO control...even under moderate breaking, much less an emergency stop. Prone shooting is the rusty car absent engine (won't do anything)...monkey lunge is the GM car (will KILL you).
Meh, at current prices...not too likely unless your in sever financial trouble...and even then, there are food stamps. Going off a bridge...less likely to be okay (and yes I almost went off a bridge in the stupid car when I had to suddenly brake).
Meh, at current prices...not too likely unless your in sever financial trouble...and even then, there are food stamps. Going off a bridge...less likely to be okay (and yes I almost went off a bridge in the stupid car when I had to suddenly brake).I dunno. Paying to put gas in a car that won't run (but apparently consumes as much fuel as a car that will) is a good way to starve to death.When you have to compare your car to a rusty car that is absent a motor system to make it seem like a good car, it's better to just design a new car.Could be worse...your car could be a GM. A rusty car absent a motor won't KILL you. Was in a rental malibu for a weekend...the driving dynamics of that car was bad enough to be dangerous. Who the heck puts in super soft springs and then increase the dampeners to the max to make up for the cheap cruddy springs? The ride was harsh but with absolutely NO control...even under moderate breaking, much less an emergency stop. Prone shooting is the rusty car absent engine (won't do anything)...monkey lunge is the GM car (will KILL you).
To spring back from the analogy, I'm not in favor of any feat or option that requires you to go on a mechanical equivalent of welfare (which I assume would be GM-specific modification to ensure you aren't made of suck).
From what Pepsi (and others) say and my own experience with fighting with a "bastard sword" I would suggest some special feature like:
"If you have exotic weapon Prof. Bastard Sword you're off-hand count as empty for the use of feats, abilities etc. but you can't manipulate or wear items in it"
So after reading 120 posts what I learned is: Unless you are taking the Bastard Sword for some role playing reason, it just isn't worth it.
So after reading 120 posts what I learned is: Unless you are taking the Bastard Sword for some role playing reason, it just isn't worth it.
Actually, you missed the part where it's not worth it for a role-playing reason.
So after reading 120 posts what I learned is: Unless you are taking the Bastard Sword for some role playing reason, it just isn't worth it.Actually, you missed the part where it's not worth it for a role-playing reason.
You are so right. Thanks for reminding me.
You are so right. Thanks for reminding me.So after reading 120 posts what I learned is: Unless you are taking the Bastard Sword for some role playing reason, it just isn't worth it.Actually, you missed the part where it's not worth it for a role-playing reason.
I try to help. ^-^
|
|
You are so right. Thanks for reminding me.So after reading 120 posts what I learned is: Unless you are taking the Bastard Sword for some role playing reason, it just isn't worth it.Actually, you missed the part where it's not worth it for a role-playing reason.
But you can take the exotic feat if it makes you have more fun. I do sometimes.
But you can take the exotic feat if it makes you have more fun. I do sometimes.You are so right. Thanks for reminding me.So after reading 120 posts what I learned is: Unless you are taking the Bastard Sword for some role playing reason, it just isn't worth it.Actually, you missed the part where it's not worth it for a role-playing reason.
I...I request explanation...this does not compute. (>.O)
|
|
I...I request explanation...this does not compute. (>.O)But you can take the exotic feat if it makes you have more fun. I do sometimes.You are so right. Thanks for reminding me.So after reading 120 posts what I learned is: Unless you are taking the Bastard Sword for some role playing reason, it just isn't worth it.Actually, you missed the part where it's not worth it for a role-playing reason.
Well, like I said, I like bastard swords...own quite a few of them in fact. Yeah I can reflavor the longsword (esp since the proper name for a bastard sword is a longsword...assuming talking about post hasting anyways), but for me, not exactly the same. So sometimes I pick the bastard sword because it makes me happy...even if it is a stupid feat.
I happen to prefer hand and a half swords myself (( never really liked calling them bastards.)) So I take them for the flavor.
That being said, yeah I just drop the exotic prereq.
I'd use them even with out mathematical benefits, because i LIKE that type of sword.
Having a 1d10, 19-20/x2 one-handed weapon increases some peoples fun, Ashiel.
Well, like I said, I like bastard swords...own quite a few of them in fact. Yeah I can reflavor the longsword (esp since the proper name for a bastard sword is a longsword...assuming talking about post hasting anyways), but for me, not exactly the same. So sometimes I pick the bastard sword because it makes me happy...even if it is a stupid feat.
I apologize...I still don't "get it" exactly. TriOmagaZero's explanation sounds very gamist and yet I can't understand what the difference in having a d10 is to "fun-factor". Is it the novelty, perhaps? The desire to be different somehow? Perhaps my confusion is I fail to see why it is fun. I suppose some people have fun banging their heads against a brick wall (I know someone who seems to do this for amusement), and yet I cannot fathom what is the allure of it, or what makes it "fun".
Most of the time, I feel like I have a pretty good grasp on different things in the game that contribute to "fun factor". Things like (in no particular order)...
1) Story aspects.
2) General roleplaying entertainment value.
3) Creativity aspects.
4) Teamwork aspects.
5) Fantasy fulfillment.
6) Sense of accomplishment.
7) Thrill of danger and threat of failure.
8) Overcoming threats or succeeding at tasks.
9) Tactical aspects (and just whoopin' up on orcs).
10) Character building aspects (it's kind of a thought exercise).
11) Archaic weapons are cool ("Swords, not words!").
12) Gaming aspects (figuring out how to play the game portion of the Role-Playing Game).
And though I'm not particularly fond of the following, I do acknowledge them as ways some people have fun (yet often at the detriment of others)...
1) Playing a character solely for comic relief and failures (usually ends up more as a failure at life than comical).
2) Playing whatever is the least appropriate thing possible("I know you said only core races, but I just won't be happy unless I can play a pacifist half-fiend ogre wizard who speaks halfling and was raised by unicorns on the celestial plane...").
3) Playing a completely insane character (generally unbelievably insane in the sense that you comic off as comically loony instead of interesting, most often paired with stupid phobias or random acts of inane violence or paranoia or delusion).
4) Playing a character to act out your own sick desires of self gratification and/or inhibitions (playing someone that steals everything, enacts random acts of silly violence, or otherwise expect the game to be Grand Theft Dungeon).
However, I'm seriously having a hard time wrapping my head around why a d10 is more fun than a d8, or why one wouldn't just use a longsword and call it a day, because of the following:
1) It offers no mechanical benefit so it's not a gaming thing.
2) It offers no role-play benefit (there is nothing in its mechanics that help to emulate a concept better than other options).
3) It offers no flavor benefits (it is actually worse at emulating what the bastard sword is known for than its peers) because it's not even exotic in the sense of the word (not the mechanic).
4) It's not even a sense aesthetics that make it look nicer than something else (a reason my brother chooses certain inferior items over others in video games, because they look nicer) because the game is imagination based and what an item looks like is more or less up to you (within reason).
This is what I'm asking for help with. I'm finding myself unable to understand the why this increases fun, because I can't see how it affects the game, the player, or the player character and their interaction with the game world at all. It's clear to me it is not mechanics, it is not fluff, it is not for realistic accuracy...so what is it? Is it some sort of fetish for d10s?
EDIT: Additions to the lists notified with bold listings.
|
|
Mostly...it's 5. I like bastard swords in real life and I want my fantasy character to have the bastard sword as well...and it better be the real stuff and not some reflavored longsword :P . I know, wierd...but different things make different people happy and have fun. If wasting a feat makes somebody have fun and they don't complain about how gimped their character is...I say have at it.
Mostly...it's 5. I like bastard swords in real life and I want my fantasy character to have the bastard sword as well...and it better be the real stuff and not some reflavored longsword :P . I know, wierd...but different things make different people happy and have fun. If wasting a feat makes somebody have fun and they don't complain about how gimped their character is...I say have at it.
Are you suggesting that bastard swords in real life deal 1d10 damage and cannot be wielded properly without special training beyond what it takes to learn how to properly use a weapon (in the sense that you must spend a feat on it, must have at least a +1 BAB, require a 13+ Strength, etc)? Because I too am a sword enthusiast, and I think that is a bid odd to say the least. O.o
Also, please understand, I'm not saying people shouldn't do this (even if the core of my being is somehow shaken by this in an OCD sort of way), just trying to wrap my noggin' around it. Like I implied before, people derive fun from things I don't fully understand (some people set themselves on fire for fun, and I don't get the appeal); but I am honestly trying to understand the attraction.
From your response it sounds like naming fallacies. Like people who can't accept a character class being used for anything except what its given name implies (such as using a Ranger to make a detective with a pet dog named Sparky instead of Aragorn, or using the Ranger to create a strong-willed Samurai, or getting upset because someone wants to make a Roguish sort of character but isn't using the Rogue class, etc).
Am I getting closer here?
The problem is that not all exotic weapons are equal. I believe steps have been taken to enure that there are very few weapons mechanically identical. So the solution in my mind it to add a new quality to it that does not change damage die nor crit range. Perhaps a +2 to confirm crits.
Like I said, I want the real stuff :P .
It's a bit of the OCD honestly...related to playing by RAW as much as possible.
So it is purely a naming convention? As in, if Longsword were renamed Bastard Sword you would be using it instead?
Only in the official rules, I imagine.
And if the system were "patched" (IE - a house rule)?
One of the few things I liked about 4th ed was the way it handled its wepaons. Certain classes got bonuses wth various weapons and swrods were more accurate than axes which dealt more damage.
A bastard sword is a wasted feat and the Katana has a higher crit range and the deadly ability. THe BS needs another ability thats not crit related perhaps something like brutal 1 (reroll 1st).
THe current experiments I am doing is making feats that are better than normal feat but limited in other ways usually in what they can apply them to. An Improved critical type feat could be made for bastard swords only but you also get ++1 damage/AC/initiative. Yes ttis a better feat than inproved crit but you can only add it to a BS.
I do not know if someone have mentioned this before but, Fauchard.even if exotic weapon prof gave you ALL of them, I am not sure it would be worth a feat from a pure mechanical stand point beyond the falcata.
Fauchards are definitely worth it for certain builds. It's awesome for fighters in particular; they have feats to spare and it aids in building up some nice tricks in addition to just dealing damage.
|
|
I do not know if someone have mentioned this before but, Fauchard.even if exotic weapon prof gave you ALL of them, I am not sure it would be worth a feat from a pure mechanical stand point beyond the falcata.
Where is the fauchard from? I don't see it in any of the hardcover books...or am I being blind again?
Again, 'playing by RAW as much as possible'.
A bit off topic but, while I'm a RAW enthusiast (I generally keep my chattering to RAW in these public discussions unless the subject is mods and such) I can't help but think that we wouldn't have Pathfinder (or 3.5, or Kirthfinder, or 3E, or 2E, or any iteration of D&D post initial) if not for deviations from the RAW. Likewise, I can't help but think that one of the greatest strengths of P&P RPGs is the sheer modability of the games. I mean, looking at the d20 system, it has produced a wide range of rebuilds for a variety of purposes and settings. You can get up one day and say "Gee, I think bastard swords get the short end of the stick and have ran the numbers to confirm it, so now I'm going to mod 'em". A few minutes later, the mod is complete in your patch (house rules) and everyone gets to be happy; versus trying to mod a computer program like say Baldur's Gate to retroactively modify all bastard swords from 2d4 to 1d10 and change their item descriptions (something I'm actually figuring out in WeiDU, but that's beside the point ATM).
I suppose I can't help but to wonder why people would rather stick with bad rules that don't give them what they want if given the option for good rules that do give them what they want. It would be like if longswords dealt 3d3 nonlethal bludgeoning damage, and insisting "I like longswords in reality and while the longswords in D&D are nothing like longswords I like I'm choosing it because of its name. Even though our group has offered to patch-fix it by making longswords deal X slashing damage, I'd turn them down for wonky mechanical version because it's RAW and I like it reality". At least, that's what I'm getting from the statements.
However, I think I at least am closer to understanding the process behind it, even if I'm still a bit bewildered by the idea. I think this line of thinking is antithetical to my very functionality in that it is completely alien and/or the polar opposite to my thinking and line of reasoning. Of course, that is probably why I want to understand it all the more.
|
|
Again, 'playing by RAW as much as possible'.A bit off topic but, while I'm a RAW enthusiast (I generally keep my chattering to RAW in these public discussions unless the subject is mods and such) I can't help but think that we wouldn't have Pathfinder (or 3.5, or Kirthfinder, or 3E, or 2E, or any iteration of D&D post initial) if not for deviations from the RAW. Likewise, I can't help but think that one of the greatest strengths of P&P RPGs is the sheer modability of the games. I mean, looking at the d20 system, it has produced a wide range of rebuilds for a variety of purposes and settings. You can get up one day and say "Gee, I think bastard swords get the short end of the stick and have ran the numbers to confirm it, so now I'm going to mod 'em". A few minutes later, the mod is complete in your patch (house rules) and everyone gets to be happy; versus trying to mod a computer program like say Baldur's Gate to retroactively modify all bastard swords from 2d4 to 1d10 and change their item descriptions (something I'm actually figuring out in WeiDU, but that's beside the point ATM).
I suppose I can't help but to wonder why people would rather stick with bad rules that don't give them what they want if given the option for good rules that do give them what they want. It would be like if longswords dealt 3d3 nonlethal bludgeoning damage, and insisting "I like longswords in reality and while the longswords in D&D are nothing like longswords I like I'm choosing it because of its name. Even though our group has offered to patch-fix it by making longswords deal X slashing damage, I'd turn them down for wonky mechanical version because it's RAW and I like it reality". At least, that's what I'm getting from the statements.
However, I think I at least am closer to understanding the process behind it, even if I'm still a bit bewildered by the idea. I think this line of thinking is antithetical to my very functionality in that it is completely alien and/or the polar opposite to my...
Well you have to realize that I play with a pretty varied groups of gamers. A few of the gaming groups I play with is very much RAW only and we don't houserule ANYTHING. On those where the rules are fuzzy, we have hours long discussions and come to a ruling on them. I don't even want to know how long a houserule discussion will go on with one of my group. On the flip side, I do have a some casual groups where we do in fact houserules, reflavor things and basically have fun being morons who kick down the door, kill the monsters and loot them...all the while having a chicken familiar named johan sebastian bach. Both are fun in their own ways.
Oh and just to throw your brain into further choas, when I saw the picture of the dueling gloves in UE, I thought it looked pretty so I got one for my sorcerer. Along with the boots of friendly terrain. I can go from powergaming to the inch to doing stuff like that :P .
|
|
Where is the fauchard from? I don't see it in any of the hardcover books...or am I being blind again?I do not know if someone have mentioned this before but, Fauchard.even if exotic weapon prof gave you ALL of them, I am not sure it would be worth a feat from a pure mechanical stand point beyond the falcata.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons
1d10 18-20/x2, reach and trip.
Ah...from those various accessory books. Wonder why that was left out of UE. Seems like it would be another useful exotic.
Ah...from those various accessory books. Wonder why that was left out of UE. Seems like it would be another useful exotic.Where is the fauchard from? I don't see it in any of the hardcover books...or am I being blind again?I do not know if someone have mentioned this before but, Fauchard.even if exotic weapon prof gave you ALL of them, I am not sure it would be worth a feat from a pure mechanical stand point beyond the falcata.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons
1d10 18-20/x2, reach and trip.
the fauchard is interesting, but you can trip just fine with a glaive, yeah, your crits don't happen as often, but your coup de grace becomes nastier. you can trip with any weapon, it's just that trip weapons let you drop them to avoid being tripped, which has the same move action penalty of standing back up in the first place. not really much benefit when the attack of oppurtunity will still hit you on a 2 or better anyway.
Oh and just to throw your brain into further choas, when I saw the picture of the dueling gloves in UE, I thought it looked pretty so I got one for my sorcerer. Along with the boots of friendly terrain.
the fauchard is interesting, but you can trip just fine with a glaive, yeah, your crits don't happen as often, but your coup de grace becomes nastier. you can trip with any weapon, it's just that trip weapons let you drop them to avoid being tripped, which has the same move action penalty of standing back up in the first place. not really much benefit when the attack of oppurtunity will still hit you on a 2 or better anyway.Ah...from those various accessory books. Wonder why that was left out of UE. Seems like it would be another useful exotic.Where is the fauchard from? I don't see it in any of the hardcover books...or am I being blind again?I do not know if someone have mentioned this before but, Fauchard.even if exotic weapon prof gave you ALL of them, I am not sure it would be worth a feat from a pure mechanical stand point beyond the falcata.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons
1d10 18-20/x2, reach and trip.
You could drop it if you have a weapon cord so you can recover it as a swift action.
You could drop it if you have a weapon cord so you can recover it as a swift action.the fauchard is interesting, but you can trip just fine with a glaive, yeah, your crits don't happen as often, but your coup de grace becomes nastier. you can trip with any weapon, it's just that trip weapons let you drop them to avoid being tripped, which has the same move action penalty of standing back up in the first place. not really much benefit when the attack of oppurtunity will still hit you on a 2 or better anyway.Ah...from those various accessory books. Wonder why that was left out of UE. Seems like it would be another useful exotic.Where is the fauchard from? I don't see it in any of the hardcover books...or am I being blind again?I do not know if someone have mentioned this before but, Fauchard.even if exotic weapon prof gave you ALL of them, I am not sure it would be worth a feat from a pure mechanical stand point beyond the falcata.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons
1d10 18-20/x2, reach and trip.
not really a fan of the spring loaded wrist sheathe nor the weapon cord. the former invalidates the quick draw feat for 5 gold pieces, the latter invalidates the locked gauntlet for practically 1% of the money expenditure. and the locked gauntlet already made you effectively immune to disarming from most humanoids, the foes most likely to disarm.
the items are great concepts, but they are a little too cheap.