How to knock someone off a wall?


Advice

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Title says it all, really. If someone is climbing a wall to get away from me, how do I make him knock it off? I'm particularly interested in the case in which the target has a climb speed, so he's not making checks to climb in normal situations. The Fly skill says that a flying creature who gets attacked has to make an easy Fly check or fall 10 feet, but Climb (and Swim) don't say anything about this.

The best I've come up with is to find a way to fly, then fly up, grapple the target, reposition him off the wall (thus causing us both to start falling), then make an automatic Fly skill check to catch myself in midair (and let him fall to the floor, SPLAT!). This seems unnecessarily complicated to me, plus it takes at least two grapple checks, which might be a problem for most flight-capable adventurers. Any better ideas?


EARTHQUAKE ! ! !

or
grease, hydraulic torrent, the various hand spells, sleet storm, entangle, stone spikes, etc...

or
trip with a whip or polearm

or
called shot to the arm or leg with archery.

or
anything that stuns or knocks prone


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

Give him a good whack.

Core Rules: Climb Skill wrote:
Anytime you take damage while climbing, make a Climb check against the DC of the slope or wall.

Now, a critter with a climb speed gets a +8 racial bonus, so it's not likely to fail unless conditions are bad.


I'd like to add:
Bull rush.
Bolas.
Net.
Mancatcher.


Interesting thing I just noticed:

Normally, you only fall if you fail a climb check by 5 or more.

However, read this:

"Anytime you take damage while climbing, make a Climb check against the DC of the slope or wall. Failure means you fall from your current height and sustain the appropriate falling damage"

Apparently, when you take damage while climbing, you fall on ANY failure, not just one of 5 or more.


Cast grease on the wall. And hope the person standing there doesn't have Acrobatics.

Master arminas

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Huh. I apparently missed that line. Still, problematic in that it doesn't depend on the amount of damage the target takes, and your average DC 20 wall is well within take-10 range of practically anything with a climb speed, because it has a +8 racial modifier, as well as the ability to take 10 in any situation. So that isn't going to help, since the target isn't going to fail such easy checks no matter how many times we smack him.

I like the grease idea, though. Didn't think of that one. Should work pretty well, too!


What would Grease's effect be? To increase the Climb DC by about 10 or so?

I ask because it's not covered in the spell. RAW would suggest that it simply requires the climber to make a DC 10 Acrobatics check or fall, in addition to his Climb check, and would reduce his climb speed by a further one-half if he succeeds (per the rules on difficult terrain / stacking multipliers for obstructed movement)

As a house-rule, I think Climb DC + 10 in lieu of the Acrobatics check would be reasonable. I think that's what I'll do if this situation ever comes up in my game.


Grease said wrote:
Any creature in the area when the spell is cast must make a successful Reflex save or fall. A creature can walk within or through the area of grease at half normal speed with a DC 10 Acrobatics check. Failure means it can't move that round (and must then make a Reflex save or fall), whle failure by 5 or more means it falls (see the Acrobatics skill for details). Creatures that do not move on their turn do not need to make this check and are not considered flat-footed.

They have to make a Reflex save as well, Bardic Dave. Failure means they automatically go prone. If they save, then on their turn they can attempt to move, which requires a DC 10 Acrobatics check in addition to any normal checks they might require. If they make that check, they can move at half normal speed. If they fail the Acrobatics check, they have to make another Reflex save or fall. If they fail by 5+, they automatically fall. In either case, their movement for that turn immediately ends.

Like I said, it is not something to use against an NPC with good Acrobatics, but that is a skill most Fighters, Barbarians, Paladins, Anti-Paladins, Cavaliers, Samurai, Oracles, Gunslingers, Magi, Inquisitors, Summoners, Alchemists, Clerics, Druids, Sorcerers, and Wizards lack (unless I am mistaken). And their Armor Check Penalty applies. So, unless the climber is a Bard, Monk, Ninja, Ranger, or Rogue, there is a decent chance they will fail and fall. Those five classes are quite likely to be successful, however.

Master Arminas


master arminas wrote:
Grease said wrote:
Any creature in the area when the spell is cast must make a successful Reflex save or fall. A creature can walk within or through the area of grease at half normal speed with a DC 10 Acrobatics check. Failure means it can't move that round (and must then make a Reflex save or fall), whle failure by 5 or more means it falls (see the Acrobatics skill for details). Creatures that do not move on their turn do not need to make this check and are not considered flat-footed.

They have to make a Reflex save as well, Bardic Dave. Failure means they automatically go prone. If they save, then on their turn they can attempt to move, which requires a DC 10 Acrobatics check in addition to any normal checks they might require. If they make that check, they can move at half normal speed. If they fail the Acrobatics check, they have to make another Reflex save or fall. If they fail by 5+, they automatically fall. In either case, their movement for that turn immediately ends.

Like I said, it is not something to use against an NPC with good Acrobatics, but that is a skill most Fighters, Barbarians, Paladins, Anti-Paladins, Cavaliers, Samurai, Oracles, Gunslingers, Magi, Inquisitors, Summoners, Alchemists, Clerics, Druids, Sorcerers, and Wizards lack (unless I am mistaken). And their Armor Check Penalty applies. So, unless the climber is a Bard, Monk, Ninja, Ranger, or Rogue, there is a decent chance they will fail and fall. Those five classes are quite likely to be successful, however.

Master Arminas

Right, if the Grease spell is cast directly on the climber. I should have been clearer. I meant if they try to climb through an already greased area.


That is actually for if the grease spell is cast on the wall. :)

If they try to climb through an area already effected by grease: Normal Climb check, plus the DC 10 Acrobatics once they enter the area, in that case. If they fail the Acrobatics, then the Reflex save comes into play (see above post). Regardless, they move at half-speed once they enter the area. It lasts for 1 minute/level, remember.

It gets really wicked (especially on narrow wall tops that are pretty high) when you have two or more casters casting grease on adjacent 10' squares each turn for two or three turns. Someone will fail and fall.

Master Arminas


Buff skill... make him or her believe something esle.....


master arminas wrote:

That is actually for if the grease spell is cast on the wall. :)

If they try to climb through an area already effected by grease: Normal Climb check, plus the DC 10 Acrobatics once they enter the area, in that case. If they fail the Acrobatics, then the Reflex save comes into play (see above post). Regardless, they move at half-speed once they enter the area. It lasts for 1 minute/level, remember.

It gets really wicked (especially on narrow wall tops that are pretty high) when you have two or more casters casting grease on adjacent 10' squares each turn for two or three turns. Someone will fail and fall.

Master Arminas

Lol, right; I should have been clearer in my attempt to be clearer. What I actually meant was that's what happens if Grease is cast on the wall AND the climber is in the AOE.

I seem to be dyslexic today…


Happens to us all, lol.

MA


Actually, I think that imposing a circumstance penalty of -5 on the climb check in addition to the other effects of Grease is well within the RAW. I think that's what I'll do in this scenario. Thanks! This thread has been most helpful!


Color spray also works (at any level) if the climbing creature is holding on to the wall:

A stunned creature drops everything held...

Sleep also works against some creatures, and hold X, confusion, and maybe even suggestion work in your benefit too.


I suppose a climber is holding themselves to the wall, so they drop themselves...


Depending on how far up he/she is you could use a reach weapon to make a reposition maneuver.

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