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Greetings!
Finally, at long last, I got to play a game of Pathfinder. I had never played Pathfinder or D&D 3+ before, so it was quite an experience.
I played in the Colorado Springs Pathfinder Society Meetup 4/14/12 and had a blast. I played two sessions. The first session, I played Valeros the pre-gen fighter.
But, between the two sessions, the GM and players helped me make my own character, a human fighter named Ren. I decided I wanted to use a longbow and do as much damage as possible with it because during the previous session I recognized the value of ranged combat. It seems to better fit my play-style.
Here's hoping people can help me edit my character, if needed, and chose what to do for the second level. I only have the Core Rulebook, so please withhold suggestions using other books. I've yet to register him. If I understood him correctly, The GM said I could edit my first character until after my third game.
In the second session, I really liked using the masterwork composite longbow I used the 2 PA from the previous session to buy. It fit my play style and felled many enemies. Though I was first level and the others were third, I didn't in any way feel inferior or less "powerful" -- quite the opposite.
I think I'd like to really specialize with this bow, really make Ren a master of it throughout his career as he rises through the levels. Other than that, for when he has to engage in melee, I think I'd like to make him a greatsword fighter on the side. I did like Valeros' two-weapon style since I learned misses are bound to happen, and shields are indeed great, but for my play style I think a big 'ol two-handed greatsword is the way to go. Also, I tend to get into a lot of fist fights and wrestling matches; just saying.
So, without further ado, here are Ren's stats:
Ren
First Level Human Longbow Fighter
At the age of 17, Ren returned home to his family's mountain-side cabin only to find it burned to smoldering ashes, his parents and siblings along with it. Eventually, the strapping boy wandered into town where he was taken in by a bowyer. Ren was already hearty enough to sting the strongest longbows.
Kicked by a horse in the side of his face at an early age, Ren is beyond ugly and a bit bit hard of hearing. But, his appearance doesn't hurt his deadly accuracy and didn't stop him from becoming a lethal archer. His arrows defended his small settlement from monster invasions more than once.
Quiet and distant in social situations, Ren knows he's a strong, stupid brute but is smart enough to keep him mouth shut. However, the strapping mountain man does form close bonds with those he feels he can trust and rely upon.
STR 16
DEX 18
CON 14
INT 7
WIS 13
CHA 7
HP 13
Fort +4
Reflex +4
Will +4
BAB +1
CMB +4
Weapon 1: Masterwork Composite Longbow (Spent 2 PA on it)
Weapon 2: Bastardsword
Skills
Climb +4
Feats
Point-Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Weapon Focus (Longbow)
Special Abilities
Reactionary
Indomitable Faith
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True. We talked about it and decided it wasn't too overboard. They hurt in game play, too since my Andoran side-quest relied on Per and CHA. Still completed it, though. The low scores are justified by my character story, anyway.
Did you have any advice in reference to those two 7's or are you just pointing out that I was min-maxing? Because, I most certainly was min-maxing. I role-played it though, so no biggie.
You should have taken Rapid Shot before Weapon Focus. And I didn't think traits were in the core book, didn't APG introduce those?
What is PA? Some money system?
Feats in core...you're probably going to run out of good options for archery, actually. Get Specialization at 4 I guess and the greater Focus and Specialization when you can later, and Penetrating Strike immediately when it becomes available, ditto the Greater version. Manyshot you'll want right at level 6, and Improved Precise Shot right at 11. Oh, you should also get Deadly Aim at some point.
Won't help archery, but the feat to ignore 5 ft of difficult terrain means you can always 5 ft step back and full attack. You should be full attacking whenever possible, but when you can't, there's Vital Strike line to help out.
How does your DM handle Enlarge Person spell? In the change from 3E to PF, paizo decided to make it defy all internal consistency and basic logic by completely contradicting the text of Reduce Person, for the sole end result of making BOTH spells completely and utterly suck for projectile weapons. Instead of fixing their massive F up, they made up for it by releasing the Gravity Bow spell in APG to use for what people used to use Enlarge for: greater base weapon damage. Is your DM willing to use 3E's Enlarge Person rules?
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True. We talked about it and decided it wasn't too overboard. They hurt in game play, too since my Andoran side-quest relied on Per and CHA. Still completed it, though. The low scores are justified by my character story, anyway.
Did you have any advice in reference to those two 7's or are you just pointing out that I was min-maxing? Because, I most certainly was min-maxing. I role-played it though, so no biggie.
It probably explains why you felt more powerful than level 3 characters.
Archers are a powerful character type.
A min-maxed archer has the potential to steal the spotlight from other players more often than is healthy.
Pathfinder is, first and foremost, a social game.
I would take rapid shot, power attack, and quick draw and the next MUST HAVE feats. After that, you have some room to take what you like.
You'll do well with Deadly Aim as well.
Remember, arrows don't work on everything. Here's what I suggest you purchase.
Alchemists' Fire (good vs. lots of things)
Holy Water (works on ghosts)
silver arrows (werewolves, vampires)
cold iron arrows (demons)
oil of magic weapon (lots of things)
and of course...
potion of cure light wounds
Finally, if you have nothing else to spend gold on, pick up better armor.
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You should have taken Rapid Shot before Weapon Focus. And I didn't think traits were in the core book, didn't APG introduce those?
I see Weapon Focus. I don't see Rapid Shot, though I do see Rapid Reload...
Oh, I found Rapid Shot. It has Point-Blank Shot (and DEX 13) as a prerequisite (which I have).
I agree. It looks like WF gives me +1 to attack and RS gives me a whole 'nother attack. Great advice!
Should I take WF now or something else?
What is PA? Some money system?
Prestige Award, given out at the organized Society meetings for finishing games. I'm not sure where you can go to read about the Society, but I guess things get done a little differently in these official tournaments. You register your character here on Paizo.com and stuff. I don't know much about it other than it's organized, standardized play.
Feats in core...you're probably going to run out of good options for archery, actually. Get Specialization at 4 I guess and the greater Focus and Specialization when you can later, and Penetrating Strike immediately when it becomes available, ditto the Greater version. Manyshot you'll want right at level 6, and Improved Precise Shot right at 11. Oh, you should also get Deadly Aim at some point.
I've played Pathfinder one time and have never played D&D 3+ or any of its derivatives. I need to know what I should take for the 2nd level, not how to make the best archer. This is over my head.
Won't help archery, but the feat to ignore 5 ft of difficult terrain means you can always 5 ft step back and full attack. You should be full attacking whenever possible, but when you can't, there's Vital Strike line to help out.
Cool.
How does your DM handle Enlarge Person spell?
I don't have a GM and that spell never came up in the two sessions we played.
Thanks!
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I would take rapid shot, power attack, and quick draw and the next MUST HAVE feats. After that, you have some room to take what you like.
Cool. I'll drop MF and take RS. I'll have to look and see how many feats a fighter gets to take on the 2nd level.
You'll do well with Deadly Aim as well.
I'll take a look at it.
Remember, arrows don't work on everything. Here's what I suggest you purchase.
Alchemists' Fire (good vs. lots of things)
Holy Water (works on ghosts)
silver arrows (werewolves, vampires)
cold iron arrows (demons)
oil of magic weapon (lots of things)and of course...
potion of cure light woundsFinally, if you have nothing else to spend gold on, pick up better armor.
Thanks so much! I'll look into all those. We did use a lot of Alchemists' Fire!
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Reccomended Feat order for maximal effectiveness:
1: Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot,
2: Deadly Aim
3: Weapon Focus
4: Weapon Specialization
5: Maybe Iron Will or Nimble Moves, but could grab lots of different stuff.
6: Manyshot
After that it gets much more up to you, with lots of stuff being good depending on what you want, but those are the 'Everyone Should Have This' stuff.
Oh, and looking at your sheet, I'm pretty sure your Will Save should only be +2.
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I'm currently reading the races and classes chapters and see that I don't get additional feat on level 2.
Reccomended Feat order for maximal effectiveness:
1: Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot,
2: Deadly Aim
3: Weapon Focus
4: Weapon Specialization
5: Maybe Iron Will or Nimble Moves, but could grab lots of different stuff.
6: Manyshot
AWESOME. Thanks a lot!
Oh, and looking at your sheet, I'm pretty sure your Will Save should only be +2.
Yes, that was a typo. It is +2.
Thanks again!
One thing to note. There is a web page that contains most of the current content and it is legal and free.
Pathfinder srd... here's the link: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/
This probably contains all of the feats and archetypes and pretty much anything you could want, so, while i recommend purchasing the books, the website is a great referrence source.
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^Thanks for the link, Joes Pizza!
Don't mind the haters.
Lolz. XD
If it's not too late to switch stats, I'd switch constitution and wisdom for an archer. You're not going to be on the front lines as often as a melee fighter, but you'll still eat up the Hold Persons and Calm Emotions.
You're very right. I always stood in the very back and almost never took much physical damage (I'm wearing a breastplate, AC 20) but used Wis often. I'll switch it!
If you want to super minmax, I'd take half-elf instead of human and choose the Arcane Training feature instead of Multitalented so that you can use wizard wands.
I see this is popular. However, I'm so new to the game that I better stick with just a plane 'ol human fighter for now.
I'll make other characters, too, as I become familiar with the system. I mean, this is just one guy. I'm more the talk-y type of player than the hit-y type. But, fighters are good for learning the basics in every system. That's why I chose him.
After looking around the forums, I see that archers (especially arcane ones) are indeed considered powerful archtypes. Now I know why the GM rather sounded like we were dabbling in the black arts as we min-maxed our way to this monster.
Thanks so much for all your help!!!
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One thing to note. There is a web page that contains most of the current content and it is legal and free.
Pathfinder srd... here's the link: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/This probably contains all of the feats and archetypes and pretty much anything you could want, so, while i recommend purchasing the books, the website is a great referrence source.
He's playing PFS, which means he actually needs to have a physical copy of any non-core book he uses (with a few specific exceptions).
He's playing PFS, which means he actually needs to have a physical copy of any non-core book he uses (with a few specific exceptions).One thing to note. There is a web page that contains most of the current content and it is legal and free.
Pathfinder srd... here's the link: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/This probably contains all of the feats and archetypes and pretty much anything you could want, so, while i recommend purchasing the books, the website is a great referrence source.
DOH!!! ok, yeah, i decided never to play Pathfinder Society when i heard that max out at lvl. 12. Ug, thank you for the advice.
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I didn't know that. That's a good rule to have.
Paizo has received a few hundred of my American greenbacks, and will no doubt get much more.
I probably will ONLY play PFS, too. At least, for the foreseeable future. Like I say, I'm a big fan of GURPS and have been GMing it since I was in the 8th grade (I'm 31). We switched to GURPS during the 2nd Ed. of AD&D after coming from OD&D. We played several systems, but just never got into d20. Crazy, right? How can a roleplayer never have played d20? Well, we didn't. Rifts, Shadowrun, Hero, Marvel Super Heroes, etc., etc., etc., but never d20.
PFS is great. I really love how I can take a character from Colorado to Indiana and then to Florida. Yes, I travel a lot. XD
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By the way, the first session was Pathfinder Society Scenario #5: Mists of Mwangi.
http://paizo.com/products/btpy8530?Pathfinder-Society-Scenario-5-Mists-of-M wangi
I didn't care as much for it as I did the second session. We played the "easy" setting instead of the "hard" setting, and one third level cleric pretty well dominated. It was way too easy, even with two or three first-level guys.
It was just a hack-and-slash, and not really a very good one at that. Kinda plain.
The second session, however, was totally different. We played Pathfinder Society Scenario #3-01: The Frostfur Captives.
http://paizo.com/products/btpy8kab?Pathfinder-Society-Scenario-301-The-Fros tfur-Captives
It was great. Tons of fun. Sure, there was loads and loads of combat scenarios one after the other, but caring for the goblins added a whole 'nother facet to the game. Plus -- and I don't know if this was just a good job on the GM's part or not -- there were plenty of real role-playing opportunities in town and whatnot that actually mattered.
Even though it's the standard escort mission, it didn't feel cliche. I had fun role playing every opportunity I got.
I mainly babysat the goblins, being the archer. I stood back with them and did my best to coral them while the melee guys fought up front. Through two of the four or five encounters, I never landed a shot on an enemy, just dealt with the troublemakers. Took way longer than two hours, though. More like four.
I'd highly recommend The Frostfur Captives to every group. It's not just another hack-and-slash dungeon. It's a real, true role-playing adventure where your decisions actually matter.
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Your attack bonus with ranged weapons is based on dexterity. Damage, for mighty (stiff/hard to pull) bows, is still based off of strength.
Ohhh, yes. I forgot. I even noticed we had +6 at first, but I erased it and put +7.
Thanks.
If you want to save some cash, buy your next weapon with 2PA. You can spend 2PA to acquire any (ANY) item with a value of 750gp or less. Here are some of my favorites:
For you, a Masterwork Composite Longbow (Mighty 3).
That's actually what I have, bought with the 2PA from the first session. I didn't know it was called "mighty 3," but I understand it allows me to apply all +3 from my Str 16. It does 1d8+3 damage, or 1d8+4 within 30' for Point-Blank.
Thanks, though!
Now, I once again have 2PA and, like, 1,400 gp and change.
Potion of Fly. (for archers, also known as "potion of infinite ac")
Ooo... I can see that... Awesome.
On the charm/compulsion route: At some point, buy a Wayfinder and put a Clear Spindle Ioun Stone inside of it. It will give you permanent immunity to all charms, compulsions, and possession, as well as 'any attempt to exercise mental control' over your character. For fighters, it's your get-out-of-jail free card when it comes to spells like Dominate Person and Confusion. Together, they cost 4,250 gp, and give you complete immunity to the entire Enchantment school. It's the best deal money can buy.
Ah, yes! Our GM said something about that. I think you need another, thin, book, though. Pathfinder's Guide or something like that?
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PFS characters are allowed to have 9 masterwork tools. 50gp for a +2 bonus to some particular skill checks is pretty nice, and it gives a fun way to give a little color to your character while gaining an actual mechanical benefit while you're at it. I've seen dwarves with ceremonial beard rings for diplomacy, an inquisitor with a magic 8-ball for sense motive ("do I trust this guy?/outlook not good."), and an old wizard with an ear trumpet for perception.
Where are these located? I looked in the equipment section under Tools and Skill Kits, p. 161, but didn't see anything much for me.
By RAW, any skill may have a masterwork tool that gives +2 to skill checks. PFS allows these to have any flavor that seems appropriate.
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Okay. Found it. It's on page 158 in the bottom of Table 6-9: Goods and Services and its description is on page 161.
From the PFSRD:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/goods-and-services#TOC-Tool-Maste rwork
"Tool, Masterwork
This well-made item is the perfect tool for the job. It grants a +2 circumstance bonus on a related skill check (if any). Bonuses provided by multiple masterwork items do not stack."
Also found this thread about it: http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz4vo4?Masterwork-Tools-for-all-skills
Are some GM's not very pleased with these things?
I have plenty of gold. I should surly pick up a few if they're good for PFS. My Per checks are terrible, and I would like to have a better Intimidation, too. Diplomacy would be nice as well.
Should I put skill ranks in these things to offset my low ability scores, or should I just focus on going with what I'm good at?
Thanks!
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I'm still needing to actually update this character now that I've been given so much wonderful advice.
I'm reading Rogue Eidolon's Guide to Fighters (Optimisation) right now, and it's giving the exact same advice as I've been so generously given here:
https://docs.google.com/document/edit?id=15x4he4WAFYNsoeYgNG8KaEjPH2OvzF2dU jiy8BL1h14&hl=en&pli=1
I'l try to get my carbon-copy, rubber-stamp build up here in a bit...
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Been reading the Skills chapter and I see that Perception is based on Wis. For some reason, I thought it was based on Int and that that was the reason mine was lower than others. But, I see I was wrong; it's because it's not a class skill and (I don't have ranks in it), so I can't get the extra +3.
What if -- and I don't think this would be a good "optimization," a.k.a, min-maxing, tactic, but maybe it would be fun and cool for my first character who's already pretty stout for his level due to my munchkin-isim -- what if I took a level in another class?
Can I do that on the second level? Could I, say, take a level of Rogue instead of my second level in Fighter?
It may be a bit extreme just to get a +3 in Perception and Intimidation. Just throwing it out there.
The only bummer to my min-maxing is the lack of Intimidation. The other negatives don't really bother me.
I thought if I took a level of Rogue, put a rank in Intimidation (for a total +4, right?) and bought a Masterwork tool to give another +2, that would give a +5 to my Intimidation rolls for a total of +3 after considering my -2 for Cha 7... Am I right?
Thanks in advance!
EDIT: I just noticed Fighters get a Feat every level! Missed that. I didn't think I got another Feat until level 3...
EDIT x2: I also noticed Rouges get 8 skill ranks (-2 for my Int) per level! So, with just 1 level of Rouge, I could really help offset my low Int and Cha, right?
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You can absolutely take a level in another class, but you shouldn't.
Multiclassing will do all the things you're saying it will in regards to skills...and vastly decrease your combat capabilities. As a Fighter with the stats you have, your usefulness is your combat abilities, stick to your strengths.
Multiclassing is usually a bad idea in Pathfinder. There are certainly exceptions, but you shouldn't be trying it on your first character.
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On this low of a level for PFS, is it really that bad to miss one level of Fighter? I mean, even though I'll count as second level for the tier system, I'll be no worse of a Fighter than I already am. I've heard nothing but bad about multiclassing, but I just can't see how terrible it would be. It would shore up all my weaknesses at this point. I played with level 3 characters on the the hard tier and my combat ability (other than AC and HP) didn't seem underpowered. But, my total lack of Intimidation made dealing with the goblins more difficult, and not having crap in Perception didn't help either.
Not arguing, just saying.
EDIT: I'm now more strongly considering changing to Half-Elf and revising my character story, which I didn't have when I played the character. Axebeard mentioned choosing the Arcane Training feature instead of , but I don't see that optin in the Core...
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Let me not get the cart too far before the horse...
In PFS, how many games do you have to play before you hit the second level? I've played two. Do I need to play one more?
Since I want to have Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot and Rapid Shot all on the first level, and being human allows me to take an additional feat, I'll probably stick with human for now.
However, I noticed on my sheet I have two "traits" -- Reactionary and Indomitable Will.
Where are these found in the Core? How many do I get in PFS?
I found them in the PFSRD, which says:
"Gaining Traits
When you create your character for a campaign, ask your GM how many traits you can select. In most cases, a new PC should gain two traits, effectively gaining what amounts to a bonus feat at character creation. Some GMs may wish to adjust this number somewhat, depending upon their style of play; you may only be able to pick one trait, or your GM might allow three or more. Even if your GM normally doesn’t allow bonus traits, you might still be able to pick up some with the Additional Traits feat."
I guess in PFS you get two to start (?). I looked up Traits in the index and couldn't find them and I also looked through the table of contents...
Where are these and what ones should I take?
I think traits were introduced in APG. You get 2, there's the Additional Traits feat to get 2 more per time you take the feat. Can't select two traits from the same category, which is pretty bogus when you realize how utterly irrational the placement of the traits is (it's fluff based, not mechanics based, so you'll find "+2 initiative" in like 5 different categories based on why you're more reactive, for example...)
Since you're playing in PFS, check if mithral medium armor still counts as medium armor (pretty sure it does, but I've been surprised by PF rules changes from D&D 3E before). If it does, the Defender of the Society trait from the PF Society field guild is like a flat +1 AC since you'll be sticking to that sort of armor anyway.
The two traits you have aren't bad, but I tend to prefer "sexier" ones that are both helpful and interesting. Or traits that give me a class skill, those are sweet. As a fighter archer, a trait to get perception as a class skill would be swell.
There are 2 traits that make perception a class skill for you. One is "eyes and ears of the city", the other is "tomb raider". one is a local trait, the other-campaign. Since your a regular fighter, gloves of dueling will greatly help you out.
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He's playing PFS, which means he actually needs to have a physical copy of any non-core book he uses (with a few specific exceptions).One thing to note. There is a web page that contains most of the current content and it is legal and free.
Pathfinder srd... here's the link: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/This probably contains all of the feats and archetypes and pretty much anything you could want, so, while i recommend purchasing the books, the website is a great referrence source.
You are also permitted to have a pdf copy provided it has your name at the bottom (GM should check ID). In other words, legally purchased pdfs from Paizo.com are okay as well.
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In reply to the three posts above this one, thanks for your help! :)
I really need to get that Pathfinder Society Field Guide. It gets referenced often and has a lot of good stuff in it including my Pathfinder kit. Not so sure about the Advanced Player's Guide at $40. It's nice to know that I can get the PDF from Paizo and it be cool, though.
I did a Google search for Gloves of Dueling and see they are in the APG, which I don't have (hard copy or PDF), so for PFS, I can't buy them. From the PFSRD, they look fantastic, though.
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EDIT: I read the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play and it answered some of the questions I posed in above posts.
Gaining levels: "In both advancement rates, your Pathfinder levels up each time he acquires 3 XP."
Since I have 2 XP, I need to compleete another game before leveling up. However, it's good to get these questions out of the way in case I play two games in one day like I did before. I'll be ready for the level up!
Traits: "Pathfinder Society characters begin play with two traits— minor in-game advantages tied to their background in the campaign world. Complete trait rules can be found in the Advanced Player’s Guide or online in the free Character Traits Web Supplement at paizo.com/traits."
The link is to a PDF with, I guess, all the traits I have access to for PFS, which is really cool!
I'll look through them and edit this sheet if needed.
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Below is Ren's sheet at first level, though I'm thinking about changing his background story to say he was burned as well as kicked during a barn fire to give me an in for a Masterwork Tool: Mask (+2 to Intimidate).
Swapped Constitution and Wisdom, dropping my PFS-allotted HP from 13 to 12.
Moved my single skill rank from Climb, which no one used in the two sessions I played, to Intimidate, which was used by all more than once.
I still have 2 unspent PA.
Please check over him again and see if I made any mistakes or forgot to take advice into consideration. I'm also open for more opinions about taking my second level in Rogue, but now that I see how to use Traits, I'm much less so inclined.
Thanks!
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Ren
First Level Human Longbow Fighter
At the age of 17, Ren returned home to his family's mountain-side cabin only to find it burned to smoldering ashes, his parents and siblings along with it. Eventually, the strapping boy wandered into town where he was taken in by a bowyer. Ren was already hearty enough to sting the strongest longbows.
Kicked by a horse in the side of his face at an early age, Ren is beyond ugly and a bit bit hard of hearing. But, his appearance doesn't hurt his deadly accuracy and didn't stop him from becoming a lethal archer. His arrows defended his small settlement from monster invasions more than once.
Quiet and distant in social situations, Ren knows he's a strong, stupid brute but is smart enough to keep him mouth shut. However, the strapping mountain man does form close bonds with those he feels he can trust and rely upon.
STR 16/+3
DEX 18/+4
CON 13/+1
INT 7/-2
WIS 14/+2
CHA 7/-2
HP 12
Fort +3 (Base +2, +1 Con)
Reflex +4 (Base 0, +4 Dex)
Will +3 (Base 0, +2 Wis, +1 Indomitable Faith)
BAB +1
CMB +4
Weapon 1: Mighty 3 Masterwork Composite Longbow; Damage: 1d8+3 (+1 within 30')
Weapon 2: Bastardsword; Damage: 1d10+4
Equipment
Masterwork Breastplate
Bastardsword (in sheath on belt)
Pathfinder Kit (in backpack)
Cold Weather Outfit
Hemp Rope 40' (chewed up and missing 10' thanks to the goblins I tied up with it) (in backpack)
Piton (tied to rope)
Beltpouch
Bullseye lantern (in backpack)
Tindertwigs x 3 (in beltpouch)
1,386 gp, 8 sp, and 8 cp (in beltpouch)
Total weight is 78.5 lbs.
Skills
Intimidate +2 (-2 Cha, +1 Ranks, +3 Class Skill)
Feats
Point-Blank Shot (+1 to attack and damage on targets within 30')
Precise Shot (No penalty for shooting into melee)
Rapid Shot (Make one extra ranged attack)
Special Abilities
Reactionary
Indomitable Faith
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On this low of a level for PFS, is it really that bad to miss one level of Fighter? I mean, even though I'll count as second level for the tier system, I'll be no worse of a Fighter than I already am. I've heard nothing but bad about multiclassing, but I just can't see how terrible it would be. It would shore up all my weaknesses at this point. I played with level 3 characters on the the hard tier and my combat ability (other than AC and HP) didn't seem underpowered. But, my total lack of Intimidation made dealing with the goblins more difficult, and not having crap in Perception didn't help either.
Not arguing, just saying.
If you want to play a skill-based character, switch to Ranger. They do the archer thing pretty close to as well, and have skills to boot. A 2nd level Ranger is just better in all ways than a Fighter 1/Rogue 1, as well as simpler.
Pretty easy to switch, too.
Ren
First Level Human Longbow Fighter
You get another skill rank, because of the way bonuses and penalties work.
Specifically, Human Fighters get 2 base skill points then subtract for Intelligence (to a minimum of one) then recieve their +1 from being Human, so you've got another skill coming. Other than that, looks good.
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Specifically, Human Fighters get 2 base skill points then subtract for Intelligence (to a minimum of one) then recieve their +1 from being Human, so you've got another skill coming. Other than that, looks good.
Sweet!!! Thanks a lot!
I'll put it in... Well, I'm not sure yet. Still trying to figure out what Trait I want, because there's two Traits that make Perception a class skill.
Unfortunately, one is the afore-mentioned Tomb Raider, and that's from the Osirion faction and the other is Observant from the The Grand Lodge faction. Neither faction suit my character concept. Well, Osirion is fine, but I'm playing the average "white as the driven snow" character. Playing a character with a fantasy Arabian background isn't too bad. Since I don't know the world of Golarion very well, I'm having trouble thinking of how my Conan-like character got mixed up with desert dwellers.
Any suggestions?
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I want to play a rather shady character, but not evil. You know they type -- the quiet anti-hero like the Punisher.
Ren's not just out for himself -- quite the opposite; he'll happily defend the weak and oppressed and loyally take up arms for a cause he believes in championing. He can be altruistic and sacrificing.
But, his methods to his ends are less than savory. He feels no compassion for his enemies no matter who they are. They are little more than straw targets for his arrows or meat for his two-handed butcher's cleaver. He'll murder an enemy in their sleep and won't hesitate to use lethal force on anyone in his path (other than PCs since this is PFS).
Lawful Neutral sounds too bland.
Neutral sounds too wishy-washy about things.
I carry a lot of contempt from AD&D 2nd Ed. days for Chaotic Neutral.
Chaotic Good? Neutral Good? "Good" sounds about right as long as "justified" murder is fair play.
Probably Chaotic Good, reading the descriptions.
Your character sounds Chaotic Neutral to me:
"But, his methods to his ends are less than savory." = Chaotic
"... and won't hesitate to use lethal force on anyone in his path (other than PCs since this is PFS)." = Neutral
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What about:
"Ren's not just out for himself -- quite the opposite; he'll happily defend the weak and oppressed and loyally take up arms for a cause he believes in championing." = Good
"He'll murder an enemy in their sleep and won't hesitate to use lethal force on anyone in his path (other than PCs since this is PFS)." = Chaotic
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Sweet!!! Thanks a lot!
No problem, happy to help. :)
I'll put it in... Well, I'm not sure yet. Still trying to figure out what Trait I want, because there's two Traits that make Perception a class skill.
Unfortunately, one is the afore-mentioned Tomb Raider, and that's from the Osirion faction and the other is Observant from the The Grand Lodge faction. Neither faction suit my character concept. Well, Osirion is fine, but I'm playing the average "white as the driven snow" character. Playing a character with a fantasy Arabian background isn't too bad. Since I don't know the world of Golarion very well, I'm having trouble thinking of how my Conan-like character got mixed up with desert dwellers.
Any suggestions?
Hmmm, I guess you could go with having traveled there as a mercenary and then fallen in love with both the country and (perhaps) a high born girl there, and are trying to prove your worth to her father. Or something like that, anyway. There, that's my idea.
And Ren sounds Chaotic Good to me, but could easily be played as Chaotic Neutral as well, depending on how selfless and (in contrast) ruthless you intend him to be.
What I would suggest is trading your Bastard Sword for a Short Sword or Rapier, or even better, elven curved blade. As an Archer, your DEX will always be better than your STR. Since you don't have the APG*, I don't think** you'll ever be able to shoot a bow without drawing an Attack of Opportunity. This means that you'll have to go melee sometimes. When you do have to, it's better to have a weapon you can use Weapon Finesse with to take advantage of your higher DEX. Your best option is Elven Curved Blade (2-handed 1d10; 18-20 crit range). The downside is it takes 2 feats to use: Exotic Weapon Prof., and Weapon Finesse. I'd recommend getting Weapon Finesse, then using a short sword or other light weapon (Hand Ax maybe?) until you get Exotic Weapon Prof.
Which brings up another trap a lot of people fall into. It is better to use a smaller die attack (1d6 vs 1d10) and hit more often then do more damage with the few times you do hit. Right now it won't make a huge difference since we're talking about a 1 point difference between DEX and STR, but as your DEX and STR get further apart, it becomes more important. As you get higher level, damage becomes less about the weapon damage die you roll and more about the bonuses that are added in.
*In the APG they add something new called Archetypes. It takes a standard class and trades out abilities in the original class for different ones. There is an Archer Archetype in the APG that at 9th level you don't provoke Attacks of Opportunity when firing a bow while threatened.
**There may be a feat I'm forgetting about that allows you to duplicate the Archetype ability I mentioned above.
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What I would suggest is trading your Bastard Sword for a Short Sword or Rapier, or even better, elven curved blade. As an Archer, your DEX will always be better than your STR. Since you don't have the APG*, I don't think** you'll ever be able to shoot a bow without drawing an Attack of Opportunity. This means that you'll have to go melee sometimes. When you do have to, it's better to have a weapon you can use Weapon Finesse with to take advantage of your higher DEX. Your best option is Elven Curved Blade (2-handed 1d10; 18-20 crit range). The downside is it takes 2 feats to use: Exotic Weapon Prof., and Weapon Finesse. I'd recommend getting Weapon Finesse, then using a short sword or other light weapon (Hand Ax maybe?) until you get Exotic Weapon Prof.
Uh...his Strength is 16 and he's a dedicated archer. This is a monumental waste of resources for this character. Like...really, a complete waste. 5-foot staeps make avoiding AoO very doable something like 90% of the time, and wasting two Feats on something that won't even come up every scenario, much less every fight,is an epicly bad idea.
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I see where you're going, Jodokai, and thanks for the fresh perspective and food for thought. However, having read a couple optimization guides and several threads now, not to mention getting lots of great advice here, I think I'll stick with my bastardsword until the future when it's time to get a new one, in which case I'll upgrade to a magic greatsword of some sort.
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As for his story and faction, I'm going to have my story take Ren to Osirion where he joins with the first Pathfinder he'd ever met, a member of the Osirion faction. Other than that, Ren's not really into Osirion. In fact, he probably dislikes it for the most part, much like many US soldiers in the "Sandbox" I know personally. He will remain a part of the faction out of loyalty to the memory of his lost friend.
"This faction is interested in rediscovering the powerful
artifacts of ancient Osirion and preventing their theft by
aggressive powers, such as Cheliax."
He follows this creed because of his distaste of Cheliax more than his love for Osirion, which he sees more as a battlefield than a homeland. Again, his loyalty to the memory of his lost Osirion-native comrade (I'll think of his name and reason for death later) is strong.
What I would suggest is trading your Bastard Sword for a Short Sword or Rapier, or even better, elven curved blade. As an Archer, your DEX will always be better than your STR. Since you don't have the APG*, I don't think** you'll ever be able to shoot a bow without drawing an Attack of Opportunity. This means that you'll have to go melee sometimes. When you do have to, it's better to have a weapon you can use Weapon Finesse with to take advantage of your higher DEX. Your best option is Elven Curved Blade (2-handed 1d10; 18-20 crit range). The downside is it takes 2 feats to use: Exotic Weapon Prof., and Weapon Finesse. I'd recommend getting Weapon Finesse, then using a short sword or other light weapon (Hand Ax maybe?) until you get Exotic Weapon Prof.Uh...his Strength is 16 and he's a dedicated archer. This is a monumental waste of resources for this character. Like...really, a complete waste. 5-foot staeps make avoiding AoO very doable something like 90% of the time, and wasting two Feats on something that won't even come up every scenario, much less every fight,is an epicly bad idea.
Not to mention if the OP ever does get access to APG, he can just take the Point Blank Master feat and never even need to 5 ft step to avoid melee attackers.
And yeah, your to hit may be a bit lower w/o finesse, but 2Hing means more damage, it's worth the trade even BEFORE considering the feat cost.
There is the other trait I listed which groves perception as a class skill. It's called eyes and ears of abadar. It's a local trait. Not sure if you can use it for pfs, either way take a look.