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Aaaaannndd with that your now an Ascended Demon Lord. Turn in your CE card :3Agreed. I'm secretly and slowly saving up money for a nice ring. When marriage equality is allowed in Florida, I'm popping the question that day :)This is exciting! I'm really hoping this helps push the national conversation towards nation-wide marriage equality.If they were married in a jurisdiction which allows it. Otherwise one could lose one's rights by moving to the next state. They can also go to a state (or country) that allows marriage for everyone, get married, and return to their home in a state that doesn't allow it, and the Feds will recognize the marriage. It's just like getting married on vacation - it's still valid.And some good news. All I can say is: about time.Very nice Mr. Holder. Though it raises one question to me, what criteria would be used to determine spousal privilege for couples in states without same-sex marriage.
I'll kick a puppy at the wedding, jeeze!
Soldier's Girl had a lot of direction from the trans woman who was featured in the story however she was played by a cis man(Note: Severe violence towards the end. I'm not prone to getting sick with violence but I've had to walk out on subsequent watchings of this movie.)
I'm not sure exactly when soldiers girl takes place...
I watched it on DVD with the commentary track last week (as a result of our discussion about casting), and I'm pretty sure they said the events happened in 1999.
Continuing with the casting question, Addams seemed complementary of Lee Pace in the commentary, but also points out, in one of the club scenes, how important it was that the other trans parts in the film were cast with trans actors. And as a part of that comment, she mentions how much seeing non-trans actors in trans parts bugs her.
In my opinion, that film has probably the most successful performance of a trans character by a cis actor I've seen, and I'd bet that Addams' involvement helped in that regard. Even so, watching it for the first time in a long while, I did feel a little bit of a disconnect between actor and role in some of the scenes between her and her neighbor (who's played by a trans woman).
And yeah, that ending is hard to watch. I can't imagine how difficult it was for her to see it.
I always find movies which consult the person they are about interesting because it suggests that the director is at least trying to tell the story with some authenticity.
There's definitely an attempt in this film, though they're also pretty up front on the commentary track about having fictionalized some elements.
On the subject of casting in this particular instance; from looking at the synopsis of the film it seems like it takes place before she transitioned. If that informs this casting choice it seems reasonable. Otherwise I see your point about casting trans actors for trans roles especially since the person the story is about is an actress and could have played herself, which would have made it even more interesting.
It depends on what you mean by transition. It's not an overnight process, it's a drawn out one. Within the film, it's clear she's been on hormones for a while, definitely more than a year (I think it's mentioned once or twice, like when she talks about trying to visit her mother, and her mother's reaction to her), and is saving up for surgery. Lee Pace, the actor, is wearing prosthetic breasts, and I think hips, throughout the film, but the character is not, if you see what I mean.
Nice! Which of his CDs would you suggest starting with. I was browsing through, and there are quite a few.Speaking on trans issues and women who transition to men...
Does anyone here listen to the music of Alexander James Adams? Before he transitioned and continued his musical career, he had a music career as Heather Alexander. You can catch both songs from him as Heather Alexander and as Alexander James Adams with ease on Youtube.
I think that music alone highlights that someone who transitions can end up very different from their starting point ^^
I have no idea. It's been years since I listened to an individual CD.
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Being called a woman is belittling and dehumanizing?.Referring to Brandon as "a woman" or "her" is dehumanizing and belittles the exact reason he was brutally beaten to death.
.No it's not. I think I can explain this a bit.
I think it's like when people come up to me and tell me "Man, you're the whitest Puerto Rican I know". Surely, there is nothing wrong with being white. But, it's an unusual and somewhat belittling thing to say to a person a color. I mean, sure, I'm not as attached to modern Hispanic culture as my family is or my friends are. But just because my hobbies (anime, sci-fi, D&D, 40K) aren't popular among Hispanic culture doesn't mean I'm less of a Puerto Rican for it. And in a way, it kind of furthers the thought that being a nerd and liking these hobbies are a predominately white thing to do. So no, I'm not the whitest Puerto Rican anyone knows. I'm a Puerto Rican that likes nerdom.
Hope that helps to clarify the issue.
I get this a lot as a black man. But there are a lot more people of all ethnicities into geeky stuff nowadays. It's both empowering and strange.
Same sex marriage lawsuit filed in Ohio.
Looks like this one is specifically about getting both parents' names on birth certificates.
The couples say they're worried that having only one of them listed as a parent on their children's birth certificates could lead to problems down the road, such as a denial of parental rights to the one not named should their partner die or experience a medical emergency.
"I have no legal grounds to stand on. That's not something that should be happening in our society," said Pam Yorksmith, who married her wife in California in 2008. The couple has a 3-year-old son and another on the way.
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Here's hoping they win!
On the subject of casting in this particular instance; from looking at the synopsis of the film it seems like it takes place before she transitioned. If that informs this casting choice it seems reasonable. Otherwise I see your point about casting trans actors for trans roles especially since the person the story is about is an actress and could have played herself, which would have made it even more interesting.It depends on what you mean by transition. It's not an overnight process, it's a drawn out one. Within the film, it's clear she's been on hormones for a while, definitely more than a year (I think it's mentioned once or twice, like when she talks about trying to visit her mother, and her mother's reaction to her), and is saving up for surgery. Lee Pace, the actor, is wearing prosthetic breasts, and I think hips, throughout the film, but the character is not, if you see what I mean.
By not transitioned I meant still in the army and presenting as male. Which is obviously not actually the case about the film.
I ma interested in what the generally accepted bounds for the process of transitioning are. I assume that it is mostly personal from individual to individual. I would also like to point out that I have already learned a lot from this thread, especially getting some very different perspectives on aspects of gender and transitioning than I had heard from the only out trans person who I know.
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By not transitioned I meant still in the army and presenting as male. Which is obviously not actually the case about the film.
That is not the case. She was in the navy when she was very very young after she ran away from home. You can probably find more accurate information in her biography somewhere. Soldier's Girl takes place a little later in her life. She was full time and working as a dancer. I can't remember if this takes place in LA or Vegas but she had transitioned.
I ma interested in what the generally accepted bounds for the process of transitioning are. I assume that it is mostly personal from individual to individual. I would also like to point out that I have already learned a lot from this thread, especially getting some very different perspectives on aspects of gender and transitioning than I had heard from the only out trans person who I know.
What do you mean by bounds? There are some artificial bounds that many in the Standards of Care. Originally, the standards of care stated absolute timelines for everything. It's a little less absolute now I believe. I don't think it has the requirement for being ultrafemme anymore either.
The process for me generally went like this:
I had a bit of a breakdown shortly after my trip to London. That led me to seek some professional help. From there, I attended 3 months of therapy which got me my recommendation for hormones. that was 14 years ago in may. Hormone therapy does little for things already changed by testosterone and likewise with estrogen, though, of the two, testosterone probably has more problematic changes that need correction. During this time, I took some time off and went for facial electrolysis and I was very lucky, at the time, to be able to afford Electrolysis 2000 in Dallas. They have an intensive 3 day(for your first appointment; ~30 hours with novacaine injected in a grid pattern throughout the areas to be worked on) electrolysis session that gets everything. And then another I went back for 4 more or those only needing about 4 hours to clear the face on the last appointment. Which ended up being shortly after I was layed off about 11 months after starting hormones. I also dieted during this time and managed to get down to about 160(higher bone density put me at somewhere between a size 8 and 10.)
It was very gradual as far as anyone that saw me regularly knew, but, for those that didn't know me, after about 9 months I could go out dressed in mens jeans and a mens polo and my hair down and get properly gendered most of the time. During this entire time, I became active within the local support group which was full of many different types of transgendered men and women, but mostly male to female transsexuals, which is way better than the Tri-ess support group I attended on my first attempt at 19 that was mostly cross-dressers(not that there is anything wrong with those guys but they were not what I was looking for). That gave a lot of socialization and some chances to be out without too much fear. After about 7 months or so I started coming out to my friends and family, starting with my mother and family(oh that the most awkward christmas ever) and then progressing to my best friend in highschool, and then one by one in our d&d group. At work, I was outted by a small side project I was working on at home when I forgot to take down my web server on my laptop before heading to work and one of the system admins found it while doing a network audit and unfortunately there were a bunch of people sitting around in there area at the time, including an intern from Oral Roberts University(we worked in the 900600 foot jesus because the President was former graduate of ORU and the space was cheap.) Around 4pm that day, I got an email from the admin that just said, "You might want to turn off your web server." The rest of that day and the following day were... challenging to get through. But the next morning I received this email: The Email. I think that was one of the biggest differences in day moods I've ever felt. Also, during all of this, I was seeing an older kiwi woman who was bound and determined to see that I learned, not just what I needed to get by, but everything about her and other women's stories so that I knew enough about what other women have to go through as a female from birth to womanhood. She was incredibly strong opinionated woman and I would not be the same without her in my life. She pushed me when I need pushing and sometimes she pushed a little too hard but she did so much for me. Then I got layed off.
After being layed off, there really wasn't anything keeping me anymore, so that was in early April. I immediately set about to get my name changed. I had to show up in the judges chambers to make my statement before the name change could go through. I was dressed somewhat formally for the occasion so I decided to get everything done while I had the confidence and the ability. So I went to the DMV to change my name and got hit on by a 60 year old man for the first time. Then off to the Social Security Department to get that info changed and finally to work to get that changed. I then packed all of my stuff and returned to Chickasha to get my school info changed.
And that was pretty much the extent of my journey through transition.
Thank you for sharing your story. Bounds was probably not quite the right word, I meant to ask if there were generally accepted benchmarks for when someone has begun their transition and when they have finished transitioning.
Well I assume that the end is fairly straightforward and that someone has finished transitioning when they present as their gender to the extent that they want to.
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Thank you for sharing your story. Bounds was probably not quite the right word, I meant to ask if there were generally accepted benchmarks for when someone has begun their transition and when they have finished transitioning.
Generally beginning transition starts with therapy though some might not count it as starting until HRT and then some people feel that transition ends when you go full time and change your name, others might feel a safer end point would be surgery but I've never felt that it was prescriptive of transition just another eventual part of being transsexual. That the transition happens as much socially as physically.
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Aye I'm really sorry to hear all that happened to you Lissa. It's really terrible that people have to put each other through that kind of s##& for being different. I'm hoping things are better over in Seattle.
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Aye I'm really sorry to hear all that happened to you Lissa. It's really terrible that people have to put each other through that kind of s!%& for being different. I'm hoping things are better over in Seattle.
Oh, all in all, I was one of the lucky ones. I lost my job only partially because of transition. I didn't lose any friends. My family was mostly accepting. I had the resources to help me through and I managed my transition in a little over a year. I had a wonderful, intelligent, and interested guide. That was all great. I had far more problems professionally being a woman in a technology field than any other problem.
Lissa, I am sorry about the problems you went through and the difficulties.
I am also glad you had such teachers and support as you did. I wish everyone had a support network like your's.
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By not transitioned I meant still in the army and presenting as male. Which is obviously not actually the case about the film.That is not the case. She was in the navy when she was very very young after she ran away from home. You can probably find more accurate information in her biography somewhere. Soldier's Girl takes place a little later in her life. She was full time and working as a dancer. I can't remember if this takes place in LA or Vegas but she had transitioned.
Nashville actually. It's where her soldier was stationed.
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Nashville actually. It's where her soldier was stationed.By not transitioned I meant still in the army and presenting as male. Which is obviously not actually the case about the film.That is not the case. She was in the navy when she was very very young after she ran away from home. You can probably find more accurate information in her biography somewhere. Soldier's Girl takes place a little later in her life. She was full time and working as a dancer. I can't remember if this takes place in LA or Vegas but she had transitioned.
I thought she had gotten out of there by then. So that was probably earlier in her life than I realized(I haven't seen it since the first time 10 years ago. Hard to watch, knowing what's coming.)
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Yeah, I've only seen it the once myself. It's a very trigger filled movie. I just remembered that it was somewhere down south and wiki'd it. I was thinking Virginia, but it's Tennessee and Kentucky.
Yeah, I knew she'd done a lot of shows in Nashville before going to Vegas but I was never clear on the exact timeline.
What a story....
If they were married in a jurisdiction which allows it. Otherwise one could lose one's rights by moving to the next state. They can also go to a state (or country) that allows marriage for everyone, get married, and return to their home in a state that doesn't allow it, and the Feds will recognize the marriage. It's just like getting married on vacation - it's still valid.And some good news. All I can say is: about time.Very nice Mr. Holder. Though it raises one question to me, what criteria would be used to determine spousal privilege for couples in states without same-sex marriage.
I may have misunderstood then I thought I was seeing that same sex couples would be allowed to claim Spousal Privilege in court even if they weren't married due to their state not having yet enacted same sex marriage laws.
Lissa,
Thanks for sharing all of that. Glad you made it through.
What do you mean by bounds? There are some artificial bounds that many in the Standards of Care. Originally, the standards of care stated absolute timelines for everything. It's a little less absolute now I believe. I don't think it has the requirement for being ultrafemme anymore either.
The ultrafemme bit is definitely not in the Standards of Care anymore (or at least, I don't remember seeing anything to that effect when I read Version 7).
For anyone curious, you can find the Standards of Care (formerly called the Harry Benjamin Standards of Care) here, at WPATH's site (World Professional Association for Transgender Health).
Any doctor or therapist still applying the ultrafemme criteria is being a jerk, but it still happens. Things also vary by country. (I've read some unpleasant stories from the UK, but I'm not sure how current they are.)
Finding good medical care is key, and not everyone has access to it, either due to finances, or location, or geography (nothing within driving/traveling distance), or any combination of those factors.
Also, I just finished Redefining Realness, and it was fantastic and personal. I truly loved reading her story.
For anyone unfamiliar with the book, Cori's referring to trans activist Janet Mock. Haven't read it yet, but every response I've seen to it has been the same as Cori's.
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I may have misunderstood then I thought I was seeing that same sex couples would be allowed to claim Spousal Privilege in court even if they weren't married due to their state not having yet enacted same sex marriage laws.If they were married in a jurisdiction which allows it. Otherwise one could lose one's rights by moving to the next state. They can also go to a state (or country) that allows marriage for everyone, get married, and return to their home in a state that doesn't allow it, and the Feds will recognize the marriage. It's just like getting married on vacation - it's still valid.And some good news. All I can say is: about time.Very nice Mr. Holder. Though it raises one question to me, what criteria would be used to determine spousal privilege for couples in states without same-sex marriage.
No, they have to still get married somewhere where it's not restricted. And it only applies to Federal court, Federal prisons, etc, as most crime and civil matters are handled by state law. I think the Justice department is deliberately creating a conspicuous difference between state and federal treatment of married people so the injustice becomes something that requires a remedy.
Yeah, I've only seen it the once myself. It's a very trigger filled movie. I just remembered that it was somewhere down south and wiki'd it. I was thinking Virginia, but it's Tennessee and Kentucky.
I agree it's a difficult film. But there's something about that middle section, where they're dating, that was helpful for me to see. Particularly the party at the trailer park. I think, at the time I first saw it, I'd never really seen a fiction film that showed a transwoman leading a more or less regular life, or that depicted a transwoman as a fully-fledged person, and just regular folk to boot. As opposed to being presented as an other, or at best a sympathetic other, or a tragic other.
Then the tragedy hits and overwhelms everything.
It's quite a powerful little film. Addams involvement in its making is very generous and very brave.
(Edit to add: And I hope saying all of this doesn't belittle the tragedy that Addams, Winchell, and Winchell's family experienced. Apologies if it comes across that way.)
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(Edit to add: And I hope saying all of this doesn't belittle the tragedy that Addams, Winchell, and Winchell's family experienced. Apologies if it comes across that way.)
For what it's worth, the little I've known her, she doesn't tend to concentrate on the awful bits but wanted to make sure others got something out of the tragedy.
(Edit to add: And I hope saying all of this doesn't belittle the tragedy that Addams, Winchell, and Winchell's family experienced. Apologies if it comes across that way.)For what it's worth, the little I've known her, she doesn't tend to concentrate on the awful bits but wanted to make sure others got something out of the tragedy.
Well, she succeeded in that.
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Generally beginning transition starts with therapy though some might not count it as starting until HRT and then some people feel that transition ends when you go full time and change your name, others might feel a safer end point would be surgery but I've never felt that it was prescriptive of transition just another eventual part of being transsexual. That the transition happens as much socially as physically.
There are a LOT of different transitioning experiences, so no one is the accurate representation. I didn't start getting any therapy until well into my own.
I actually started by just living as a woman as soon as I moved out of my parents' house. I started taking black market hormones about 18 months later, and finally managed to afford therapy and legal hormones about six months after that. Not the way I'd recommend doing it, but life presents many challenges, and I had the twin benefits of youth and a very slow, delayed puberty to help me pass without HRT.
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While there is a standard, a lot of people tend to deviate for one reason or another. Mine was almost strictly by the book. I recommend the book, I think the therapy is helpful and that a certain amount of time is helpful to sort everything out. I've talked to a few people who went into things a little too quickly and things turned out unfortunate for them. Which isn't to say that that's a rule, it is something that can happen and I like people to be informed of that.
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Congrats Cheeseweasel! I'm helping the lady move this week, but I do plan on surprising her with some Valentine's Day celebration.
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Drifting off-topic for a moment...
Bought a heart-shaped box of chocolates today; first Saint Valentine's Day in a number of years I've had cause. Feeling warm and fuzzy about it (and him) and just delighted, generally, with the buzz of romantic inclinations.
[/starry-eyed Badger mode]
Good to hear. Hope Friday evening's a romantic one.
(Also, that seems pretty on-topic.)
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Interview about a new app for finding gender neutral bathrooms. Seems like it could be useful for some trans people.
Part of me is hoping I do not get another embarrassingly large bouquet at work this year, but another part knows that if it happens I will smile all day...
getting chocolate for wife tonight.
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Part of me is hoping I do not get another embarrassingly large bouquet at work this year, but another part knows that if it happens I will smile all day...getting chocolate for wife tonight.
Yeah, no double entendre in that statement. ;)
Ha!!!
:O
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So we have a bi-weekly game night at our local Equality Center. Tonight I brought the Adventure Card Game to play for the first time. Our party of Amiri, Ezren, Meri, and Lini were able to completely wreck Jubrayl Vishki's day. It was a lot of fun, and I look forward to working through the AP.
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I didn't know that there were 50 different gender identity options. I was hovering around 7 or so in my understanding. That's quite a bit of diversity. I don't yet know what some of them are. I'm going to be learning a lot over the next few days I think.
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The thing is, as I understand it, cis people generally don’t examine the connections between their subconscious sex, their lived sex, and their gender. (Borrowing, very loosely indeed, Serano’s terms.) It all fits together, so they don’t have to.
While I identify as female and am biologically female, I have examined those things, so what does that make me?
I may not have examined those things in the way a transgendered person does, but I have examined those things. Sometimes I've wondered why I do identify as female, even though so many things I do or like are classified by society as "masculine." So yes, I have looked at my subconscious identity as it relates to my physical identity. I've imagined my life as a male sometimes. I haven't always liked my body (I do now), though not in a way that I imagine transgendered people struggle with their physical body versus gender identity. I have checked myself to say--do I want to make some kind of change? I've just come back with a firm "no." And the older I get, the more certain I am about this--perhaps that makes me very lucky--even as I see various aspects of my and just about everybody else's gender as fluid.
Sex and gender expands across a massively, hugely, mindbogglingly large and complicatedly woven spectrum of biology, spirituality, emotion, and social construction and expectations. Many cis-gender people (by which I mean people whose physical sex and emotional/spiritual/social gender match) are challenged by encounters within this spectrum. Just not in the same way as transgender people. And certainly, cis-gendered persons have to put up with far less hate/ignorance/confusion on various matters related to gender than transgendered persons do. But they probably "closet" many of the questions they ask about gender and identity -- indeed, a lot of the viscerally hateful reactions against transgendered persons comes about because it tends to provoke questions about gender identity within others as well (which is NOT an excuse for the hatred, which is still b!++*!&& and means that we just need to be more open to talking about gender across all lines--and in fact start wiping some of those lines out). Likewise there are genderqueer and people who identify as androgynous or genderless who also face a whole different set of questions and challenges. The challenging, complicated sex/gender amoeba engulfs everybody. Some more than others, but it hits everyone.
Cis-gendered people never ask, never question, never explore gender and sex and what it does and what it means to them? Hell no. I would venture to say most people do, maybe all (though some would be terrified to admit it). The degrees to which vary, the reasons vary, but that is just part of being human. To suggest otherwise would be to suggest to my ears that cis-gendered persons aren't actually human at all. That I, in fact, am not a human being. Turnabout of sentiment is fair play, perhaps?
No, I don't know what it's like to be transgender. I don't grasp how transgendered persons work with, explore, deal with their gender identity. And I do know I have cisgender privilege which makes certain things easier for me. But I do work, explore, question, and deal with my gender identity in my own way. It absolutely is not something that's just "there," unchanging and unquestioned.
To make up another silly example, despite the social pressures to conform to gender norms and, perhaps, a slow expansion of trans issues into public consciousness, I haven’t heard of many cis people who, having been rebuked with the idea that they should be “a proper woman” or “a real man,” sought professional care to make sure they weren’t really trans
I've been rebuked for not being ladylike or girlish enough if that's what you mean, especially in my youth, but I haven't felt the need to seek out professional care on that front no, as I've largely been fairly certain the problem is the people rebuking me. I am who I am.
As an aside, I did, as a very small child, declare I wanted to be a boy when I grew up, but that was because when boys were asked what they wanted to be when they grew up, they were encouraged with whatever answer they gave, whereas I got argued with "Wouldn't you want to be a wife and mother instead?" And I thought--truly thought, at the age of four or so--that you had to be a boy to be whatever you wanted. So it was a sort of social dysphoria rather than an internal identity crisis. When I saw Wonder Woman running across the TV screen, I realized girls could be whatever they wanted and that these grownups with their trick questions were full of s&@& and decided I was okay as I was. Again, I guess I'm lucky. (Also, I guess my actual gender identity is "Wonder Woman." ;) )
Again, I do not think for a second my experiences of exploring or questioning gender or physicality are anything like a trans-person's, and I don't pretend for a second anything I may have experienced resembles a trans experience, as it certainly is not. I also think a transperson doesn't know what it's like to have explored, struggled with, or felt gender or sex the way I do.
((But for what it's worth, a talented transperson of any gender identity, cis-male, genderqueer or androgynous person, are all welcome to play me on TV in spite of our varying personal histories, just provided they all have an equal shot at the role and the best performer gets cast.))
I am in fact certain part of the human experience is we all explore and struggle with gender to some extent, in each our own unique ways. I pray that means someday, as we all grow more aware of the questions we ask of ourselves and others, that we will as a society grow increasingly compassionate towards each other, so that hatred, oppression, and violence related to all kinds of gender issues comes to an end and relegated to history.
If I have said anything in here in ignorance that reads as offensive, please correct me.
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To make up another silly example, despite the social pressures to conform to gender norms and, perhaps, a slow expansion of trans issues into public consciousness, I haven’t heard of many cis people who, having been rebuked with the idea that they should be “a proper woman” or “a real man,” sought professional care to make sure they weren’t really transI've been rebuked for not being ladylike or girlish enough if that's what you mean, especially in my youth, but I haven't felt the need to seek out professional care on that front no, as I've largely been fairly certain the problem is the people rebuking me. I am who I am.
I *think* the "sought professional care" is the important part there. Plenty of boys and girls constantly have their gender challenged by other children. I've known at least one person who made a mistake when they transitioned ftm and it's important to at least remember that if you aren't trans when you start hormone therapy then you will be afterwards for sure. So at least one person was probably struggling with gender nonconformity and had that confirmed as transsexual by a therapist and a psychologist.
I *think* the "sought professional care" is the important part there. Plenty of boys and girls constantly have their gender challenged by other children. I've known at least one person who made a mistake when they transitioned ftm and it's important to at least remember that if you aren't trans when you start hormone therapy then you will be afterwards for sure. So at least one person was probably struggling with gender nonconformity and had that confirmed as transsexual by a therapist and a psychologist.To make up another silly example, despite the social pressures to conform to gender norms and, perhaps, a slow expansion of trans issues into public consciousness, I haven’t heard of many cis people who, having been rebuked with the idea that they should be “a proper woman” or “a real man,” sought professional care to make sure they weren’t really transI've been rebuked for not being ladylike or girlish enough if that's what you mean, especially in my youth, but I haven't felt the need to seek out professional care on that front no, as I've largely been fairly certain the problem is the people rebuking me. I am who I am.
Yeah, I veered off topic there. And I think I misunderstood the point -- if the therapist is advising to be a "proper" man or woman? Okay, that's different. (I was reading it as "you seek therapy because people are telling you you are not conforming" which I realize now is not what Qunnessaa was getting at.)
(Tangentially, I have had a therapist question my sexuality in a bad way... as in... "You DO like boys don't you?" (in tone that implies that if I say "no" or "yes but I like girls too" that I will be telling her I am a crazy person who is not normal. That shoved me in the closet for a good several more years. But fortunately neither way she advised something that would cause possibly irrevocable physical changes.)
That said, sounds like seeking professional consult on these matters can be very important (ETA: if, as for seeking a therapist for any reason, one decides that's right for oneself). But it's got to be hard to find a psychologist or counsel who is going to guide you truly.
DeathQuaker, thanks for the very thoughtful posts. If anything, I’m sorry if I’ve been too blasé about characterising cis people’s experiences of gender and said something offensive as a result. Serves me right for trying to boil down someone else’s extended argument about experiences I’ve never had into a pithy one-line summary, I suppose.
If you don’t mind me continuing to natter on as best I can, I’ll try to clarify how I was approaching the question. I guess I should have put more emphasis on the “subconscious sex” part of the equation and what I think the original source was getting at. It’s hard to try to pin down something that is defined as subconscious, of course, but maybe we can think of it as a hand-wavy baseline of psychology. The example Serano uses is that when she does outreach lectures, she asks her audience if they would take up an offer of ten million dollars, on the condition that they live as the sex they don’t identify as for the rest of their lives. It’s anecdotal, but she says the vast majority instinctively shake their heads, No, possibly because on some level they feel they “just are” men and women. In that sense, then, how do those sorts of people examine sex and gender? (I certainly don’t mean to insinuate that they aren’t doing it right, or not deep enough, or whatever; I really do mean the bare how.)
I guess I’m asking what we all mean when we say (or not) that we know we’re female/male, a woman/man, or what we mean when or under what circumstances we might say, “You know, I’m not sure, deep down/in the flesh/instinctively, whether I’m a girl or a boy.” I referred to Serano’s suggestion as a null hypothesis, and I suppose I should have clarified that I’m happy to collect more data to test it. :)
I feel some personal background might help here. I’m not one of the people who can say they’ve always known they were trans, but then I don’t think I’ve ever felt my “subconscious sex,” if we want to call it that, shift. On the other hand, if you had asked me at any time before late high school, I would have answered confidently that I was a boy (even if privately I had my reservations as to how desirable that was). For a few years after high school, I would identify simply as androgynous, and it’s only been in the last couple of years that I’ve more or less accepted myself as trans. The possible implications of this bother me. How does my “me-ness” connect with my “woman-ness” or even – if I may be so bold – femaleness? Can I honestly claim an identity, because for whatever reason a continuous one is important to me?
When I’ve talked to my brother (who’s cis and straight) about this sort of introspection, though, I found it interesting that he seemed to be able to shrug some of it off. That is, he had done some soul-searching about what it meant to him to be a man and what he thought about various ideas of masculinity, partly because he’s sometimes been assumed to be gay based on local stereotypes, but he was able to conclude that, even though he didn’t feel that too much of his identity was tied up in being male, he didn’t ever feel that he was anything other than male. (My emphasis.) I just couldn’t really wrap my head around that: OK, so being male is just a thing, but it just happens to be a thing that he’s never felt the need to question, though the social implications are fair game? Ditto with my father, more or less; when I came out to him, and described the bizarre mix of happiness and anxiety in borrowing a dress to wear secretly around the house when I was alone, he told me about how he had dressed up in his mother’s clothes when he was a kid, and it wasn’t just a thing trans people did. Again, I found this frustrating; of course “cross-dressing” can just be a childhood game or an important part of an adult, non-trans identity, but why does it so often easily stop there, as opposed to leading more people to consider a range of trans possibilities more seriously? Obviously, I need a massively larger sample size, but I also need a hypothesis to test.
Maybe I’m being neurotic, fretting over qualia, or otherwise getting bogged down in metaphysics, but these are things I think about quite frequently. Ugh – I don’t think I’m expressing myself at all clearly. I’m sorry if I’ve over-generalized too hastily again or inadvertently made any remarks that are offensive in some other way. I’ll let this wall stand in case someone can excavate something useful after I’ve built it, but I’ll try for something clearer later today.
Until then, and incidentally, I'd just like to say that I entirely support a “Wonder Woman” gender identity. :)