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Wrong comparison. Brandon Teena was always a female physically. He never had reassignment surgery or went on hormone therapy. Thus Hilary Swank was a white woman who portray a white woman who ID herself as male. I mean you dont need to be a homicidal maniac in order to portray one. Its called acting. Your example would hold water if Brandon Teena was black. By your reasoning, a white man should not be in black face....so that means Brandon Teena should not have passed herself as a man.
I know you don't intend it to be, but that statement is incorrect and insulting. Surgery status is not what makes a person male or female at all, and using that as the standard, especially when transgender surgeries are so outrageously expensive and never covered by health insurance providers, is an unrealistic and deeply biased metric. Even hormone therapy can be unrealistically expensive for some (especially considering that in most states, it's perfectly legal to fire some or never hire them for being trans). Brandon Teena was a man. He just happened to be a man born with a vagina and gonads that produced estrogen; his sense of self, his role in the world, and the way others perceived him were masculine. Referring to Brandon as "a woman" or "her" is dehumanizing and belittles the exact reason he was brutally beaten to death.
Taking my argument that trans actors should be hired to portray trans character and black actors should be hired to play black character, and running with it to "only homicidal maniacs should play homicidal maniacs" is reductio ad absurdum, like implying that if we forgive jaywalkers people will decide its okay to start murdering each other. The argument is that:
- Trans people are much better at portraying trans characters than cis people. I have seen perhaps one performance by a cis person portraying a trans character that didn't make me, as a trans woman, wince.
- Trans actors are largely ignored for roles playing trans characters or cis characters, whereas cis actors are always considers for both cis characters and trans characters
- That a huge power differential exists between trans people and cis people, in Hollywood and in the wider world, so giving a cis role to a trans actor doesn't have a ring of systemic denial and dis-empowerment as giving a trans role to a cis actor. After all, there will be hundred or thousands of cis roles going to cis actors in a year, but in a given year there may be only a handful of trans roles.
- That ignorance of trans people is extremely high. For example, Piers Morgan's grotesque missteps with Janet Mock this week, or your own comments about Brandon Teena being "always a female". And one of the best ways to correct that is to increase the visibility of trans people, rather than of cis people who mean well, but obviously don't understand and instead spread harmful stereotypes.
The reason blackface is wrong isn't because white and black people are different colors and the makeup used to make white people "black" looks fake. It's wrong because there is a huge power imbalance between white and black people in our society, that leads to very different lived experience even within the same country, same city, or same neighborhood. It's hard for white people to understand and honestly portray that perspective, on those rare occasions it's actually depicted on film. That's why white people shouldn't play Japanese people, and men shouldn't play women, and cis people shouldn't play trans people.
So Bob would you say that casting directors are right in not casting transgender actors to play cisgender characters since the actor wouldn't have the right "insight" for the character?
That's not what I said at all. I did say that there are roles where it's acceptable for a non trans person to play a role and times when it's not. If the role is meant to represent a transperson's story, then it's probably more appropriate to have a transperson in that role. If being trans is incidental to the role then I don't think it matters much as long as they aren't caricatures.
Most scripts get rewritten a lot during shooting. This is why having someone who has experienced or is experiencing the situation the writers and directors want to showcase is important. Who would be better to help write stories about gang violence: Ice-T or Mitt Romney? Which one would be better suited to help write stories about what it's like to be a politician? The experiences they each bring can add more plausibility to the appropriate stories.
So Bob would you say that casting directors are right in not casting transgender actors to play cisgender characters since the actor wouldn't have the right "insight" for the character?That's not what I said at all. I did say that there are roles where it's acceptable for a non trans person to play a role and times when it's not. If the role is meant to represent a transperson's story, then it's probably more appropriate to have a transperson in that role. If being trans is incidental to the role then I don't think it matters much as long as they aren't caricatures.
If the role is meant to represent a cisperson's story, then it's probably more appropriate to have a cisperson in that role. If being cis is incidental to the role then I don't think it matters much as long as they aren't caricatures.
Do you agree that the above is appropriate?
Yeah. Odraude, tell her congrats on finding a job like that. That is great.Aye, that is a terrible thing to go through. Things are at least getting better for my girlfriend. She's moved down to Ft. Lauderdale, which is much more accepting of LGBT and pretty much everyone. Job will probably be able to cover almost the whole cost of her surgery. So she's doing a lot better now than last year, which I'm happy about.Ooooooooooo... Good job. That is not an easy goal to save up for.
Thanks. It's been pretty nice, being more open about my relationship to people that understand and can help me to be more supportive. It's kind of difficult telling people, not out of shame or fear of public ostracization, but more out of respect for her because I'm not sure if she is comfortable with me just telling everyone. Which, I really need to talk to her about eventually, when things settle down. And admittedly, I think of her as a woman and I feel like, idk, it'd be disrespectful to constantly focus on the transition. If that makes any sense?
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And some good news. All I can say is: about time.
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Thanks. It's been pretty nice, being more open about my relationship to people that understand and can help me to be more supportive. It's kind of difficult telling people, not out of shame or fear of public ostracization, but more out of respect for her because I'm not sure if she is comfortable with me just telling everyone. Which, I really need to talk to her about eventually, when things settle down. And admittedly, I think of her as a woman and I feel like, idk, it'd be disrespectful to constantly focus on the transition. If that makes any sense?
For me,it's two fold. 1 is safety especially when I'm out and about among people I don't know or trust and the other is being othered. No one likes to feel left out or occasionally supported in a way that makes you feel like an outcast. If I had a dime for every time I heard, "Welcome to womanhood,"(it was only clever the first time) or "You're so lucky not to have to deal with x," or "you're so brave," I'd be able independently wealthy. A lot of times people mean well but it's exactly what you don't need.
And some good news. All I can say is: about time.
Very nice Mr. Holder. Though it raises one question to me, what criteria would be used to determine spousal privilege for couples in states without same-sex marriage.
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And some good news. All I can say is: about time.Very nice Mr. Holder. Though it raises one question to me, what criteria would be used to determine spousal privilege for couples in states without same-sex marriage.
If they were married in a jurisdiction which allows it. Otherwise one could lose one's rights by moving to the next state. They can also go to a state (or country) that allows marriage for everyone, get married, and return to their home in a state that doesn't allow it, and the Feds will recognize the marriage. It's just like getting married on vacation - it's still valid.
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...If I had a dime for every time I heard, "Welcome to womanhood,"(it was only clever the first time) or "You're so lucky not to have to deal with x," or "you're so brave," I'd be able independently wealthy. A lot of times people mean well but it's exactly what you don't need.
I flashed back to your comment when I ran across this comic in my coffee- and bacon-fueled intertoobz meanderings this morning. :)
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Thanks. It's been pretty nice, being more open about my relationship to people that understand and can help me to be more supportive. It's kind of difficult telling people, not out of shame or fear of public ostracization, but more out of respect for her because I'm not sure if she is comfortable with me just telling everyone. Which, I really need to talk to her about eventually, when things settle down. And admittedly, I think of her as a woman and I feel like, idk, it'd be disrespectful to constantly focus on the transition. If that makes any sense?For me,it's two fold. 1 is safety especially when I'm out and about among people I don't know or trust and the other is being othered. No one likes to feel left out or occasionally supported in a way that makes you feel like an outcast. If I had a dime for every time I heard, "Welcome to womanhood,"(it was only clever the first time) or "You're so lucky not to have to deal with x," or "you're so brave," I'd be able independently wealthy. A lot of times people mean well but it's exactly what you don't need.
That's kind of what I was thinking, thanks. I certainly want to support her, but at the same time, I don't want to constantly focus on her transition and make her feel like an outcast. And admittedly, before the move to Ft. Lauderdale, I'd always had this fear of her being singled out, or worse. Seeing news stories about it didn't really help much, not to mention my own experiences with being attacked for being different.
Still I can rest a little easier now that she's moved and just focus on us.
Thanks. It's been pretty nice, being more open about my relationship to people that understand and can help me to be more supportive. It's kind of difficult telling people, not out of shame or fear of public ostracization, but more out of respect for her because I'm not sure if she is comfortable with me just telling everyone. Which, I really need to talk to her about eventually, when things settle down. And admittedly, I think of her as a woman and I feel like, idk, it'd be disrespectful to constantly focus on the transition. If that makes any sense?For me,it's two fold. 1 is safety especially when I'm out and about among people I don't know or trust and the other is being othered. No one likes to feel left out or occasionally supported in a way that makes you feel like an outcast. If I had a dime for every time I heard, "Welcome to womanhood,"(it was only clever the first time) or "You're so lucky not to have to deal with x," or "you're so brave," I'd be able independently wealthy. A lot of times people mean well but it's exactly what you don't need.That's kind of what I was thinking, thanks. I certainly want to support her, but at the same time, I don't want to constantly focus on her transition and make her feel like an outcast. And admittedly, before the move to Ft. Lauderdale, I'd always had this fear of her being singled out, or worse. Seeing news stories about it didn't really help much, not to mention my own experiences with being attacked for being different.
Still I can rest a little easier now that she's moved and just focus on us.
It's great to hear you're being mindful of these issues, and are educating yourself about these issues.
Personally, and this might just be the relatively early stage I'm in, I discuss aspects of my transition somewhat regularly with my friends, partly because I think that can help normalize it for them, make it like any other medical procedure. Partly because I think the process is interesting. And partly because I look to the women I know for advice when various things come up.
But that's my own choice, and my friends understand that and have been great about letting me to be the one to bring it up when I'm comfortable doing so. I think if you generally let your girlfriend initiate those sorts of conversations, you'll be less likely to make her feel like an outcast. Really, the degree to which her transition is discussed should be up to her, in my opinion.
Again, it's great that you're aware of these issues.
The Toast is rapidly becoming my favorite site, both because of hilarious things like this, and bring-the-academics things like this, and heartbreaking things like this, and today, they had an article I found really interesting about being trans in the tech industry that I thought I would drop off here.
Thanks Jessica. That was a good article. I'm going to pass that one on to my friends.
Sunday speculation about how things are going to go for the recently filed same-sex marriage lawsuit in Wisconsin, from the Wisconsin State Journal.
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So Bob would you say that casting directors are right in not casting transgender actors to play cisgender characters since the actor wouldn't have the right "insight" for the character?That's not what I said at all. I did say that there are roles where it's acceptable for a non trans person to play a role and times when it's not. If the role is meant to represent a transperson's story, then it's probably more appropriate to have a transperson in that role. If being trans is incidental to the role then I don't think it matters much as long as they aren't caricatures.If the role is meant to represent a cisperson's story, then it's probably more appropriate to have a cisperson in that role. If being cis is incidental to the role then I don't think it matters much as long as they aren't caricatures.
Do you agree that the above is appropriate?
First off, I apologize if I’m extending a line of discussion that people find unpleasant; I’m feeling a bit theoretical since I’ve just finished reading The Second Sex, but again, if it’s too much, I’ll find something else to write about when next I post.
I was intrigued by this, and I thought I would go out on a limb to explore what’s going on here. My first impulse, perhaps because I was tired and tempted to be flippant when I read this for the first time, was to answer, “Sure.” The question I have is, “What do we mean by a ‘trans/cis person’s story?’” and I think pres man’s reformulation of Bob’s original statement suggests interesting things about how cis-centrism works. (Not meaning to insinuate that pres man’s post was cis-centric itself, of course!)
That is, if the idea of a cis person’s story as justification for favouring cis actors is meant to problematize favouring trans actors for trans people’s stories, I wonder if that works because we’re largely socialized to assume that people are cis and so their stories are too by default – of course it’s a cis person’s story, even though nothing in it makes it explicitly cis, because, heck, aren’t most people cis? [/sarcasm] I don’t mean to snark, really, only to take a potentially amused, if barbed, approach to the question. Alternatively, we can, if somewhat unrealistically, imagine a hypothetical romcom, say, for which the audience could imagine that the trans/cis identity of the protagonists was not an issue or previously resolved before the action of the film – maybe one of them was trans all along, and we never knew until we decided that they were because it made as much sense as assuming they were cis. Such an approach would actually work for the sorts of movies I tend to watch, at any rate. However, in most trans roles that I know of in media to date, the specificity of being trans becomes a plot point, as the story focuses on transition or as a character’s trans-ness becomes important (fairly or not) to another character. If that’s what we mean by a trans person’s story as opposed to a cis person’s story, just swapping prefixes won’t work.
The thing is, as I understand it, cis people generally don’t examine the connections between their subconscious sex, their lived sex, and their gender. (Borrowing, very loosely indeed, Serano’s terms.) It all fits together, so they don’t have to. To make up another silly example, despite the social pressures to conform to gender norms and, perhaps, a slow expansion of trans issues into public consciousness, I haven’t heard of many cis people who, having been rebuked with the idea that they should be “a proper woman” or “a real man,” sought professional care to make sure they weren’t really trans – for most cis people, their sex and gender identity are never really in doubt. Or, how often do cis people think, “You know, it’s just amazing how well my subconscious and my lived sex correspond!” However, while that’s not a luxury trans people often have, under more or less ideal circumstances, sometimes we do: some people eventually reach a point that they can just identify as a woman or man, without prefix, because their subconscious and lived sex have come to coincide quite nicely. I’m just starting my transition, but if I didn’t at least sometimes feel woman enough to do what I have to do in the outside world, there would be many more days when I couldn’t get out of bed.
I suppose the TL;DR version of all this is, what are the positive characteristics of a cis person’s story, as opposed to, for brevity’s sake, “does not experience gender dysphoria?”
Sorry for building such a teetering wall of text. I think I need another cup of tea this afternoon...
What is meant by "positive characteristics"? Do you mean defining characteristics or something else?
Overall I see why some people think tran roles should be played by tran people. But with comments like comparing tran people being played by cis actors to black face or Ben Kingsley, himself half Indian, should not play Gandhi, or that Asian actors should not play certain roles...undermines the call for opportunity for tran performers. You want opportunities by denying it to others.
Let us consider Divine. I do not know how he see him or herself...but he consider himself as an actor who happened to play female parts. Although his films are often not in the
mainstream and are comedic in nature, when I watch his films, the fact that he was a biological male beneath the costume and makeup is the last thing on my mind. Given some of the comments here, some of the parts he played should've been played by a heterosexual actress.
If you go back you will see that when somebody pointed out Ben Kingsley was of Indian descent, I followed up with a I stand corrected oops post.
Keanu Reeves is 1/4 Chinese, 1/4 native Hawaiian...
Not exactly the token white guy...
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As a basically outside observer I see the awareness of trans people increasing. Hopefully this means that the profile of trans actors talented enough to headline a movie will increase and overcome the risk-adverseness of basically everything in hollywood. I assume this would start in more independent films because I would not trust big studios to take the risks that need to happen.
On another note what are some movies, books, whatever of trans people telling their own stories. This thread has pointed out that it is a perspective that is very much lacking in general.
EDIT: Although now that I think about it, the rise in awareness of trans people might just be my perception based on me becoming more interested in societal problems. Is it real or just my own perception?
Orange is the New Black is a good one. Soldier's Girl had a lot of direction from the trans woman who was featured in the story however she was played by a cis man(Note: Severe violence towards the end. I'm not prone to getting sick with violence but I've had to walk out on subsequent watchings of this movie.) Calpernia also had monologue added the Vagina Monologues which can be seen in Beautiful Daughters. That one had a full documentary and then a more severely cut documentary for a Logo program. Might be able to find one or the other on netflix. I caught the full movie and got to see myself in like three scenes. ^_^ It was pretty nifty. Another really good portrayal, I feel, is in Ma Vie en Rose but it's a french film. Again filmed with a young boy in the main role but an honest and heartbreaking portrayal nonetheless. These are among the few I know that are actually exceptionally good portrayals or actual transgendered women are involved.
Nit-pick - Ma Vie en Rose is Belgian. And very, very good. Watch it.
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As a basically outside observer I see the awareness of trans people increasing. Hopefully this means that the profile of trans actors talented enough to headline a movie will increase and overcome the risk-adverseness of basically everything in hollywood. I assume this would start in more independent films because I would not trust big studios to take the risks that need to happen.There was Gun Hill Road a few years back, which had a trans actress, Harmony Santana, in the trans role. But I think it's still pretty rare. I do think we're more likely to see such roles and casting in television rather than movies for basically the same reason you're talking about.
On another note what are some movies, books, whatever of trans people telling their own stories. This thread has pointed out that it is a perspective that is very much lacking in general.Books are much easier to find than movies and television. There's been some occasional discussion of them in this thread (before and after this post for example).
Movies, you'll have better luck with documentary than with narrative films. I don't want to hog the thread, so I'll let someone else suggest a few.
For book, might I suggest Redefining Realness by Janet Mock? It's brand new, and though I'm not terribly far into it, what I've read is fantastic.
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Speaking on trans issues and women who transition to men...
Does anyone here listen to the music of Alexander James Adams? Before he transitioned and continued his musical career, he had a music career as Heather Alexander. You can catch both songs from him as Heather Alexander and as Alexander James Adams with ease on Youtube.
I think that music alone highlights that someone who transitions can end up very different from their starting point ^^
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My local Tri-Ess chapter rec'd a request for speakers. The university hosts panels for Q&A forums and outreach. Reading the FAQ and seeing a lot of LGBT Ally stickers throughout the college spaces this is a big difference from when I was 18. To become a panelist and properly communicate my experiences I'd have to, of course attend their training. Part of it is professionism and presentation, the other is making sure I am comfortable in my own skin and appearance to answer questions. I want to do this, yet it also means not just being stealthy out but actively out and in the public eye.
What's to lose? Anonymity.
What's to gain? So much more.
Still a big step.
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If they were married in a jurisdiction which allows it. Otherwise one could lose one's rights by moving to the next state. They can also go to a state (or country) that allows marriage for everyone, get married, and return to their home in a state that doesn't allow it, and the Feds will recognize the marriage. It's just like getting married on vacation - it's still valid.And some good news. All I can say is: about time.Very nice Mr. Holder. Though it raises one question to me, what criteria would be used to determine spousal privilege for couples in states without same-sex marriage.
This is exciting! I'm really hoping this helps push the national conversation towards nation-wide marriage equality.
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This is exciting! I'm really hoping this helps push the national conversation towards nation-wide marriage equality.If they were married in a jurisdiction which allows it. Otherwise one could lose one's rights by moving to the next state. They can also go to a state (or country) that allows marriage for everyone, get married, and return to their home in a state that doesn't allow it, and the Feds will recognize the marriage. It's just like getting married on vacation - it's still valid.And some good news. All I can say is: about time.Very nice Mr. Holder. Though it raises one question to me, what criteria would be used to determine spousal privilege for couples in states without same-sex marriage.
Agreed. I'm secretly and slowly saving up money for a nice ring. When marriage equality is allowed in Florida, I'm popping the question that day :)
Soldier's Girl had a lot of direction from the trans woman who was featured in the story however she was played by a cis man(Note: Severe violence towards the end. I'm not prone to getting sick with violence but I've had to walk out on subsequent watchings of this movie.)
I always find movies which consult the person they are about interesting because it suggests that the director is at least trying to tell the story with some authenticity.
On the subject of casting in this particular instance; from looking at the synopsis of the film it seems like it takes place before she transitioned. If that informs this casting choice it seems reasonable. Otherwise I see your point about casting trans actors for trans roles especially since the person the story is about is an actress and could have played herself, which would have made it even more interesting.
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Soldier's Girl had a lot of direction from the trans woman who was featured in the story however she was played by a cis man(Note: Severe violence towards the end. I'm not prone to getting sick with violence but I've had to walk out on subsequent watchings of this movie.)I always find movies which consult the person they are about interesting because it suggests that the director is at least trying to tell the story with some authenticity.
On the subject of casting in this particular instance; from looking at the synopsis of the film it seems like it takes place before she transitioned. If that informs this casting choice it seems reasonable. Otherwise I see your point about casting trans actors for trans roles especially since the person the story is about is an actress and could have played herself, which would have made it even more interesting.
I'm not sure exactly when soldiers girl takes place. As I remember, she transitioned shortly after her navy stint. She grew up in performance. I believe she was in a family band(I want to say christian) growing out of Tennessee and so has been performing forever. Her IMDB page is pretty crazy these days with her production for Disney and Casting Director and doing several self help videos and even a few short length self produced films. She's crazy talented and MC's and Coordinates a lot of big Drag performances in LA which is how she survived when she ran out. She is stunningly beautiful at least the couple of times I've met her in person. At the Vagina Monologues she could have been a palette-swapped Jessica Rabbit. She's also a bit of a geek. =) I at least know that she was very hands on in the making of her story.
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Agreed. I'm secretly and slowly saving up money for a nice ring. When marriage equality is allowed in Florida, I'm popping the question that day :)This is exciting! I'm really hoping this helps push the national conversation towards nation-wide marriage equality.If they were married in a jurisdiction which allows it. Otherwise one could lose one's rights by moving to the next state. They can also go to a state (or country) that allows marriage for everyone, get married, and return to their home in a state that doesn't allow it, and the Feds will recognize the marriage. It's just like getting married on vacation - it's still valid.And some good news. All I can say is: about time.Very nice Mr. Holder. Though it raises one question to me, what criteria would be used to determine spousal privilege for couples in states without same-sex marriage.
Aaaaannndd with that your now an Ascended Demon Lord. Turn in your CE card :3
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Part of it is professionism and presentation, the other is making sure I am comfortable in my own skin and appearance to answer questions. I want to do this, yet it also means not just being stealthy out but actively out and in the public eye.
I once was helping to run a gender conference held by our support group that also included a talk with the UU church we held it at. We had hired a speaker that supposedly had done a lot of speaking in front large groups and the people in charge of the church wanted to go over the speakers address for the evening after one of the seminars. So this woman starts into her speech and it begins by basically stating that she knew that she was trans because she liked to do housework and wanted a man take care of her. I was absolutely floored and I told her, "You can't honestly mean that like you said it." And then the cis women in charge of the church parts were completely gobsmacked. I'm not entirely sure to this day what she actually. I hope that it was just a miscommunication but it was one of the things that took me out of the community for many years.
Speaking on trans issues and women who transition to men...
Does anyone here listen to the music of Alexander James Adams? Before he transitioned and continued his musical career, he had a music career as Heather Alexander. You can catch both songs from him as Heather Alexander and as Alexander James Adams with ease on Youtube.
I think that music alone highlights that someone who transitions can end up very different from their starting point ^^
Nice! Which of his CDs would you suggest starting with. I was browsing through, and there are quite a few.
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What is meant by "positive characteristics"? Do you mean defining characteristics or something else?
Yes, I meant defining characteristics, but in the sense of what’s there rather than what isn’t, that a thing “is X” rather than “is not Y.”
In theology, for example, the “via negativa” explores the nature of God by thinking about what God is not – saying that something is perfect and all-powerful might not really give one much of a sense of what that means, so one might say “nothing presides over it, for nothing has mastery over it; it does not exist in any state of inferiority,” and so on, to paraphrase some weird gnostic stuff.In the examples I gave in my last post I was trying to play with how the same sort of ideas might work out in relation to how we think about trans and cis stories. Since being trans still tends to be a big deal in most cultures today, most “trans people’s stories” tend to focus on those people’s trans-ness – transition, related inter-personal issues, and so on. Conversely, those things aren’t normally a part of “cis people’s stories” unless someone close to them is trans. However, that doesn’t mean that all stories that don’t feature those things are cis.
For instance, in a straightforward action-adventure romp, where the hero/ine blasts their way through the opposition with lots of running, explosions, “hey-nonny-nonny and blood all over the place,” only to get the gold, the glory, and the boy/girl in the end, whether the hero/ine is cis or trans may never come up. Kill the bad guys, claim the reward, kiss the love interest, roll credits. I tried to push the envelope by suggesting that the same might hold true of other stories in which, at the moment, in Western cultures, trans/cis issues might appear to be more salient, like a classic boy-meets-girl romance.
With all that, what are the differences between trans and cis people’s stories as such? Well, negatively, we can say that cis people don’t experience whatever it is that makes trans people trans, but in this case, unlike enumerating the negative qualities of perfection, that’s not really specific. On the other hand, “a person feels that their subconscious and lived sex coincide” doesn’t really sound like it offers much dramatic potential, if only because for most people that’s just normal and they don’t reflect on it.
Finally, though, being trans is a bit strange because of what happens when one successfully transitions. If one’s subconscious and lived sex did not originally coincide, but now do for all (most?) intents and purposes, is one no longer trans, on some level? As far as telling stories goes, trans people might seem to have access to cis experiences in ways that the reverse is not true, barring, say, starting hormone therapy and trying to live in one’s non-identified gender.
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Finally, though, being trans is a bit strange because of what happens when one successfully transitions. If one’s subconscious and lived sex did not originally coincide, but now do for all (most?) intents and purposes, is one no longer trans, on some level? As far as telling stories goes, trans people might seem to have access to cis experiences in ways that the reverse is not true, barring, say, starting hormone therapy and trying to live in one’s non-identified gender.
That's a philosophical debate that comes up a lot in trans support groups and messageboards. I always felt that the experience of being trans may fade but it is not something that can be forgotten or traded. I also always felt that that was a sort of gift; an incredibly backhanded gift but there it is. It is sometimes difficult to draw meaning or wisdom while your amongst the hard times but looking back has always been enlightening and interesting. That's always been my take on it though.