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You can probably blame my 10+ years of not really having a social life for my poor social skills. Potential mental strangeness via having an 'odd' way of viewing the world might also be a contributing factor.
Case in point: Crass as it apparently came off, 'twas meant as a compliment.
If anyone got potentially offended, apology cookies at my stand in the back. Single file please.
Actually, you're acting in alignment with the vast majority is cis people, so it's an issue of society rather than you personally being socially awkward/isolated. It's very common for cis people to compliment trans women by essentially saying "You don't look trans." And as I said, it's not the compliment most people seem to think it is (because I am trans, therefore what I look like is what a trans woman looks like).
Actually, you're acting in alignment with the vast majority is cis people, so it's an issue of society rather than you personally being socially awkward/isolated. It's very common for cis people to compliment trans women by essentially saying "You don't look trans." And as I said, it's not the compliment most people seem to think it is (because I am trans, therefore what I look like is what a trans woman looks like).
This is part of why I don't generally compliment people based on their physical appearance unless I'm really close to them. I know that, despite my gender identity, I have a cis-gender upbringing that colors some of my views and interactions.
Those few times I do compliment, I tend to prefer to find something I can compliment without risking insulting someone. Generally, I find a lot of people appreciate it when I compliment hair. It may just be my experiences, but the have been almost no cases where someone's taken offense at it.
Hack my previous edit off and drop it here:Actually, you're acting in alignment with the vast majority is cis people, so it's an issue of society rather than you personally being socially awkward/isolated. It's very common for cis people to compliment trans women by essentially saying "You don't look trans." And as I said, it's not the compliment most people seem to think it is (because I am trans, therefore what I look like is what a trans woman looks like).You can probably blame my 10+ years of not really having a social life for my poor social skills. Potential mental strangeness via having an 'odd' way of viewing the world might also be a contributing factor.
Case in point: Crass as it apparently came off, 'twas meant as a compliment.
If anyone got potentially offended, apology cookies at my stand in the back. Single file please.
To better explain where I was coming from. Way I view it, if I was X before, and wanted to b Y, I'd consider it a compliment to be told that my being X beforehand seemed very unlikely in someone's head.
Then again, like I said before. I don't exactly follow the typical social (or sometimes even 'normal person') thought processes well-adjusted folks do. Confirmed multiple personalities tends to tweak and twist my worldview and how I interact.
Now that that's out of the way... I suppose. Allow me to point out my thought wasn't of the "You don't look trans". Actually, flustered as I've gotten, I can't exactly detail precisely the context behind my comment in addition to my edit.
Ah well. Like I said, sorry if it was offensive.
Whatever. I'm going to go do something since my agitation levels keep rising for no reason. Damn my moody days.
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Yeah, hormones do a LOT especially pre 25 but they still have a huge affect later in life. And while not everyone passes well, even on hormones, there is a bonus to being genuine in your life that I don't think can be discounted. I had a friend with that attitude for the longest time and she kept putting it off until 5 years ago she basically broke down and said, I either have to do this or I have to give up, even if I don't pass.
Be true. Also, be sure. =)
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Ah well. Like I said, sorry if it was offensive.
Not offended or upset, just letting you know that most trans women you'll meet in your life won't appreciate comments like "I never would have guess you used to be a dude," or "you look like a real woman," or the like. Better to go with something like "You look great" or the like if it's an appropriate situation to compliment her appearance.
I for example don't intend to transition. I don't think all the testosterone blockers and all the estrogen supplements in the world would be able to go the distance in my case (I'm about 6'2, large frame, and upstaged only by wookies in terms of hair)Hun, I'm 6 feet tall and 200 pounds. with broad shoulders and hands wide enough to pick up basketballs, and I turned out hot even by conventional standards. Don't let being a big girl make you think you can't look or feel good.
herro....
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herro....I for example don't intend to transition. I don't think all the testosterone blockers and all the estrogen supplements in the world would be able to go the distance in my case (I'm about 6'2, large frame, and upstaged only by wookies in terms of hair)Hun, I'm 6 feet tall and 200 pounds. with broad shoulders and hands wide enough to pick up basketballs, and I turned out hot even by conventional standards. Don't let being a big girl make you think you can't look or feel good.
Dammit Freehold you're gonna get our comments deleted again!
Hey, as long as it's not me saying something stupid and getting them deleted again >.>
Yeah, hormones do a LOT especially pre 25 but they still have a huge affect later in life. And while not everyone passes well, even on hormones, there is a bonus to being genuine in your life that I don't think can be discounted. I had a friend with that attitude for the longest time and she kept putting it off until 5 years ago she basically broke down and said, I either have to do this or I have to give up, even if I don't pass.
Be true. Also, be sure. =)
That was something I had to get past too. And not just before I started, but also in the first few months, before much was happening externally.
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I for example don't intend to transition. I don't think all the testosterone blockers and all the estrogen supplements in the world would be able to go the distance in my case (I'm about 6'2, large frame, and upstaged only by wookies in terms of hair)Hun, I'm 6 feet tall and 200 pounds. with broad shoulders and hands wide enough to pick up basketballs, and I turned out hot even by conventional standards. Don't let being a big girl make you think you can't look or feel good.
It would be a lie if I said that the encouragement doesn't sound temptingly wonderful (albeit a nervous and scary prospect to be honest). :|
I'm not even sure where I would begin. >_>;
On a side note I really like your hair, and I you look a little like Eliza Dushku (a compliment, promise). :)
Hun, I'm 6 feet tall and 200 pounds. with broad shoulders and hands wide enough to pick up basketballs, and I turned out hot even by conventional standards. Don't let being a big girl make you think you can't look or feel good.
Damn, You look as good as a tall glass of cool lemonade on a hot summers day.
Hmmm, It is interesting, I have been wondering a bit today about how much my current hesitancy over transitioning just relates to growing up in dangerous circumstances and in places of poverty(and never completely escaping that).
I was joking with my wife about this today, Basically the whole: "So I happened to marry a white woman and was on my way up financially before I got sick, maybe once I (hopefully) get better and we get some cash flowing again we should try out that whole suburban middle class white people thing. I might feel a lot better about transitioning in that type of environment."
It was mostly just a joke, but the more I think about it...
*Steeples her fingers as she begins plotting*
Also it would be nice to live somewhere where you can turn on lights by flicking switches, not screwdrivers levered into open panels.
*begins whistling If I were a rich man'*
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*reasonable questions*
While Lissa and Crystal both gave some pretty comprehensive answers to your question, I'll chip in what I can.
Each of our experiences is going to be unique on some level. The best way that I can relate from my perspective is that it's on some level like phantom limb syndrome in that it feels like portions of my body are missing and things that shouldn't be there are. Looking in a mirror is often jarring and I try to avoid it if at all possible, even if by most standards -and most importantly my spouse's standards- I'd be considered an attractive male.
It's a combination of that gnawing physical perception of things being -off- and then the social perceptions and reactions from other people that likewise register as being wrong. For me at least I very much could care less about other people's perceptions of me, clothing, etc versus just having a body that didn't feel like a costume with a broken zipper so it can't be removed.
*sighs* Like almost everyone else in the world there are many things about my circumstances I would love to change if I could but I think in some ways the biggest one that would free me would be if I felt reasonably insulated from the potential of violence.
I have suffered quite a bit of violence in my life and have been basically helpless to stop it quite often, my only option being hiding in a barrel, like the wily fish.
But it occurs to me at the moment that maybe because of my PTSD I might never feel reasonably safe, even if I manage to make it a reality.
Maybe I should just say f+$* it, do what I want, do what I can to stay safe, and let that be that.
One aspect I often find missing in this kind of discussion is the simple fact that almost EVERYONE has a deeply seated experience of gender, just like they have sexual preferences. All the men who identify as men and women who identify as women do. If something were to change this, say, having to surgically remove breasts due to breast cancer, or hormonal disorders that make you look more like the other sex, are serious identity problems to most people, things they want to correct bloody ASAP if at all possible. And that is not even questioned. It is just when a trans person feels the same sort of problem needs to be rectified that it gets open for discussion. I find it sad and shameful.
What surprises me, however, is this: In Sweden, the process is paid by the state during two years, beginning with a thorough psychological evaluation. You get the hormones, the surgery, psychological support during it all, and so on. And still, the results are so-so. Last I heard, about a third felt things got significantly better after, a third felt it was significantly worse, and the final third did not see much of a difference. I am well aware that this is the Swedish process, but why doesn't it help more people?
I'd have to know more to even speculate, though two years strikes me as a short amount of time in which to do all of that.
Of the people who went through the process do you know much of what they said in relation to why things were better, worse, or so-so?
I do not, sadly.
Yeah, really don't know. It could be anything from feeling the results are sub-optimal to the process working some way that doesn't meet the needs of many of the people who go through it.
I have no stats to link but I remember someone telling me at some point that in the U.S. 1 in 7 people who go the full all surgeries route decide later that it just wasn't for them.
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What surprises me, however, is this: In Sweden, the process is paid by the state during two years, beginning with a thorough psychological evaluation. You get the hormones, the surgery, psychological support during it all, and so on. And still, the results are so-so. Last I heard, about a third felt things got significantly better after, a third felt it was significantly worse, and the final third did not see much of a difference. I am well aware that this is the Swedish process, but why doesn't it help more people?
I’m not sure, but that does sound short to me. I think in my part of the world transition takes an average of 5-7 years, possibly skewing towards the latter, if I recall correctly. I do know my endocrinologist told me that on the medical side of things (specifically, for hormone therapy as we’re planning to do it), that I should expect it to take as long as any other puberty, so again, 5ish years or so. Add in people’s varying needs for more or less psychological and social support, such as for those folks who don’t have much of a supportive social network already in place, and yes, a two-year plan does seem like it might be rushing things, especially if there’s pressure not to run over time.
And there you have what is more or less the core and crux of Tarinia's whole disconnect in the attempt to understand.
(Spoiler omitted, and some other things.)
Blood warming a bit over here, but hopefully not too much. I’ll have more time to participate in this thread after my last exams for this semester, but I thought I’d offer a brief comment in case it might help just a little. On the label thing, keeping the “trans” there is to acknowledge our histories and backgrounds, but it’s just an adjective in that context. That is, being trans, my experience of gender is different in some ways from that of folks assigned at birth to the gender(s) within which they identify, and yes, while my memories of trying to go through the world in the wrong gender may start to fade through transition and beyond, I doubt I will ever reach a point that I won’t be aware of how I came to womanhood in a way different from what might still be assumed when one thinks of the undifferentiated label “woman.”
On the other hand, I emphatically reject the idea that being a bit more specific about it means that I feel any less a woman. I am a woman who just happens to be trans, just like any Canadian woman, or white woman, (to use other categories I fit into), is just a woman who is Canadian, or is white. Now, race, for example, certainly has had a fraught relationship with gender, but ideally, it should just suggest some of the contexts which may help to hint at where a person is coming from. That is, if we can imagine using other adjectives without affecting the core idea of “woman” or “man,” for example, then “trans” can work in the same way, and, I would argue, often does.
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What surprises me, however, is this: In Sweden, the process is paid by the state during two years, beginning with a thorough psychological evaluation. You get the hormones, the surgery, psychological support during it all, and so on. And still, the results are so-so. Last I heard, about a third felt things got significantly better after, a third felt it was significantly worse, and the final third did not see much of a difference. I am well aware that this is the Swedish process, but why doesn't it help more people?
Those numbers seem wildly inaccurate to me. It is possible that Sweden's system, like Canada's, will cover transition costs, but also requires trans people to fulfill sexist, 1950s-style gender roles before they're allowed to transition. That kind of treatment could lead to heavy dissatisfaction with the system, but the notion that only one-in-three trans people who spend two years of their life transitioning would come out the other side feeling any better sounds like a fictional statistic from the Family Research Council or Cathy Brennan, rather than the results of a sound survey.
I'd have to know more to even speculate, though two years strikes me as a short amount of time in which to do all of that.
Of the people who went through the process do you know much of what they said in relation to why things were better, worse, or so-so?
I'd have to see an actual study on this. I've known a few trans people who aren't satisfied with the surgery (for a variety of reasons), and have even met two people who say transitioning was a mistake, but of the hundreds of trans people I have met in my life, far more than 95% say transitioning improved their mental health.
I'd have to see an actual study on this. I've known a few trans people who aren't satisfied with the surgery (for a variety of reasons), and have even met two people who say transitioning was a mistake, but of the hundreds of trans people I have met in my life, far more than 95% say transitioning improved their mental health.I'd have to know more to even speculate, though two years strikes me as a short amount of time in which to do all of that.
Of the people who went through the process do you know much of what they said in relation to why things were better, worse, or so-so?
I know a decent number of Trans people who have had surgery and they are all happy with it. *shrug* Anecdotal evidence, but still.
Not sure what's up in Sweden though.
What surprises me, however, is this: In Sweden, the process is paid by the state during two years, beginning with a thorough psychological evaluation. You get the hormones, the surgery, psychological support during it all, and so on. And still, the results are so-so. Last I heard, about a third felt things got significantly better after, a third felt it was significantly worse, and the final third did not see much of a difference. I am well aware that this is the Swedish process, but why doesn't it help more people?Those numbers seem wildly inaccurate to me. It is possible that Sweden's system, like Canada's, will cover transition costs, but also requires trans people to fulfill sexist, 1950s-style gender roles before they're allowed to transition. That kind of treatment could lead to heavy dissatisfaction with the system, but the notion that only one-in-three trans people who spend two years of their life transitioning would come out the other side feeling any better sounds like a fictional statistic from the Family Research Council or Cathy Brennan, rather than the results of a sound survey.
A quick search found me this website: Sexchangeregret.com that contains claims of common regret after full surgical transition but after a quick browsing I got a suspicious vibe - it might be that the author is pushing an agenda or might be genuine victim of misdiagnosis that lead him to sex change and later reversing and that gave him bad attitude toward the transition process. Some of the expressions used felt wrong - but they might be explained by bitterness caused by sex change caused by misdiagnosis, and generalizing the author's experience and projecting it on others.
Would it be possible there is common trend of misdiagnosing (a) body image issues, (b) some other hormonal, neural, or psychological issues as gender dysphoria?
Another possible issue with such high number (if it is accurate at all): how many of those incidents are caused by overinflated expectations? How many of those who transition are expecting that it will solve all their problems because of a common human tendency of seeking easy explanations - single cause for all their ills - and then they discover that no, there are still problems that weren't directly caused by their dysphoria.
Of course assuming those numbers are accurate and not inflated by sloppy research. How much of this comes from self-report? People who are discontent with process, treatment, service, etc, are much more likely to be vocal about that than those that are content, after all.
I'd have to see an actual study on this. I've known a few trans people who aren't satisfied with the surgery (for a variety of reasons), and have even met two people who say transitioning was a mistake, but of the hundreds of trans people I have met in my life, far more than 95% say transitioning improved their mental health.I'd have to know more to even speculate, though two years strikes me as a short amount of time in which to do all of that.
Of the people who went through the process do you know much of what they said in relation to why things were better, worse, or so-so?
I thought about this when I went to shop.
While there is again the problem of accuracy of self-reporting and possible bias - in the case of your contacts people who were dissatisfied with their transition might be less prone to associate with other transitioning/transitioned folks, less prone to revealing they transitioned (maybe feeling ashamed, maybe trying to get over it), people who transitioned and then transitioned back might probably not want to associate at all with other transfolk, unless they feel the need to warn other transfolk, there is also the matter of one's circles - there is still the so great discrepancy between your experience and the numbers about which Sissyl read that it's quite strange. It might be caused by some cultural and social differences between USA and Sweden, but with such great difference (ca. 5% vs ca. 33%) it seems to be more a matter of research/reporting/organized bias issue.
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I would note that it is endlessly drilled into you if you go through the process that this will not fix all your problems. It will fix the one, if you have it. A few people manage to deceive themselves or their therapists and come out the other side with deep regrets. If you aren't transgendered before then you will be when you're done. It is not something to be taken lightly. Those few are far in the minority. There is likely to a be larger number of people who DID expect it to fix all of their problems despite the warnings and it didn't. But, in my experience everyone I've personally met and talked with the exception of 1 woman and possibly 1 other who had fully self realized yet, had been much happier post transition.
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A quick search found me this website: Sexchangeregret.com that contains claims of common regret after full surgical transition but after a quick browsing I got a suspicious vibe - it might be that the author is pushing an agenda or might be genuine victim of misdiagnosis that lead him to sex change and later reversing and that gave him bad attitude toward the transition process. Some of the expressions used felt wrong - but they might be explained by bitterness caused by sex change caused by misdiagnosis, and generalizing the author's experience and projecting it on others.
Would it be possible there is common trend of misdiagnosing (a) body image issues, (b) some other hormonal, neural, or psychological issues as gender dysphoria?
Another possible issue with such high number (if it is...
Walt Heyers (the man behind that website) is a known entity in trans circles and is most definitely pushing an agenda. Long story short, he was one of the small number of people who think they're trans but aren't (there are a few psychological conditions that can make people think transition will change all their life's problems), and had enough money to accelerate the process, lying to therapists and doctors, and after he'd transitioned, realized it wasn't right for him and transitioned back. He now assumes that because it wasn't a fit for him, all transgender treatment is bunk and no one should transition.
So yes, the author is pushing an agenda. Also a multitude of sensationalist books and a lecture circuit. He's a darling among conservative Christian ex-gay types and anti-trans radical lesbians alike.
There isn't a common trend of misdiagnosis, but what people like Walt ignore is that therapists can only work with what the client tells them. If you lie to your therapist, then yes, you can get the wrong diagnosis. There are already many barriers in place (which keep poorer transd women from accessing the healthcare they need) to try and prevent people with neural and psychological problems from transitioning when they don't need to/won't be happy with it afterwards, but all these barriers are easily circumvented by someone with money.
It might be caused by some cultural and social differences between USA and Sweden, but with such great difference (ca. 5% vs ca. 33%) it seems to be more a matter of research/reporting/organized bias issue.
I agree with Qunnessaa. Giving transition only 2 years seems kind of suspect. 5 years is the number that I've always heard.
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What surprises me, however, is this: In Sweden, the process is paid by the state during two years, beginning with a thorough psychological evaluation. You get the hormones, the surgery, psychological support during it all, and so on. And still, the results are so-so. Last I heard, about a third felt things got significantly better after, a third felt it was significantly worse, and the final third did not see much of a difference. I am well aware that this is the Swedish process, but why doesn't it help more people?
It can take a lot more than two years, depending on luck etc. But where have you gotten that statistic of one in three feeling significantly worse etc?
I've mostly seen that statistic thrown around by various transphobic groups and parties, and googling didn't give me more trustworthy results than a blog proudly proclaiming "anti-PC".Though of course, it can be hard to determine how much of decline in mental health after a medical transitioning is due to the transitioning itself, and how much is due to the stigma that the Swedish gender investigation apparently instills in many trans people.
I've heard many people share very bad experiences of the swedish gender investigation, especially the one in Gothenburg. Like, at least one doctor that used to work with that explicitly said that his requirement for considering a trans woman as "truly" trans would be that he was attracted to her.
I would note that it is endlessly drilled into you if you go through the process that this will not fix all your problems. It will fix the one, if you have it. A few people manage to deceive themselves or their therapists and come out the other side with deep regrets. If you aren't transgendered before then you will be when you're done. It is not something to be taken lightly. Those few are far in the minority. There is likely to a be larger number of people who DID expect it to fix all of their problems despite the warnings and it didn't. But, in my experience everyone I've personally met and talked with the exception of 1 woman and possibly 1 other who had fully self realized yet, had been much happier post transition.
wisdom, there.
A quick search found me this website: Sexchangeregret.com that contains claims of common regret after full surgical transition but after a quick browsing I got a suspicious vibe - it might be that the author is pushing an agenda or might be genuine victim of misdiagnosis that lead him to sex change and later reversing and that gave him bad attitude toward the transition process. Some of the expressions used felt wrong - but they might be explained by bitterness caused by sex change caused by misdiagnosis, and generalizing the author's experience and projecting it on others.
Would it be possible there is common trend of misdiagnosing (a) body image issues, (b) some other hormonal, neural, or psychological issues as gender dysphoria?
Another possible issue with such high number (if it is...
Walt Heyers (the man behind that website) is a known entity in trans circles and is most definitely pushing an agenda. Long story short, he was one of the small number of people who think they're trans but aren't (there are a few psychological conditions that can make people think transition will change all their life's problems), and had enough money to accelerate the process, lying to therapists and doctors, and after he'd transitioned, realized it wasn't right for him and transitioned back. He now assumes that because it wasn't a fit for him, all transgender treatment is bunk and no one should transition.
So yes, the author is pushing an agenda. Also a multitude of sensationalist books and a lecture circuit. He's a darling among conservative Christian ex-gay types and anti-trans radical lesbians alike.
There isn't a common trend of misdiagnosis, but what people like Walt ignore is that therapists can only work with what the client tells them. If you lie to your therapist, then yes, you can get the wrong diagnosis. There are already many barriers in place (which keep poorer transd women from accessing the healthcare they need) to try...
I learn more every day.
I would note that it is endlessly drilled into you if you go through the process that this will not fix all your problems. It will fix the one, if you have it. A few people manage to deceive themselves or their therapists and come out the other side with deep regrets. If you aren't transgendered before then you will be when you're done. It is not something to be taken lightly. Those few are far in the minority. There is likely to a be larger number of people who DID expect it to fix all of their problems despite the warnings and it didn't. But, in my experience everyone I've personally met and talked with the exception of 1 woman and possibly 1 other who had fully self realized yet, had been much happier post transition.
Could it be that two years timetable used in Sweden is just too short time to weed out folks that are not ready/never will be ready for the full transition and to drill in the awareness that it will change only aspect of your life and you still have to deal with all the other things?
I still have hunch that it might primarily reporting/research issue, though, not an accurate number.
It might be caused by some cultural and social differences between USA and Sweden, but with such great difference (ca. 5% vs ca. 33%) it seems to be more a matter of research/reporting/organized bias issue.I agree with Qunnessaa. Giving transition only 2 years seems kind of suspect. 5 years is the number that I've always heard.
It seems to vary wildly across the world. Two years is about the time it takes, at least, to go through the "gender investigation" once you've come into contact with one of the "gender clinics", but you can't just go there, you have to be referred by a psychiatrist or someone in a similar position. And they are apparently very gatekeeping, much more so than in the US, and basically require that you are how it fits into their narrative of a "true" trans person (for a woman, having always been very feminine and interested in stereotypically feminine things, preferably being straight in a relationship with a straight man, etc etc).
So a lot of trans people that don't fit into this narrow narrative have to lie a lot to be sure to get treatment.| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
A quick search found me this website: Sexchangeregret.com that contains claims of common regret after full surgical transition but after a quick browsing I got a suspicious vibe - it might be that the author is pushing an agenda or might be genuine victim of misdiagnosis that lead him to sex change and later reversing and that gave him bad attitude toward the transition process. Some of the expressions used felt wrong - but they might be explained by bitterness caused by sex change caused by misdiagnosis, and generalizing the author's experience and projecting it on others.
Would it be possible there is common trend of misdiagnosing (a) body image issues, (b) some other hormonal, neural, or psychological issues as gender dysphoria?
Another possible issue with such high number (if it is...
Walt Heyers (the man behind that website) is a known entity in trans circles and is most definitely pushing an agenda. Long story short, he was one of the small number of people who think they're trans but aren't (there are a few psychological conditions that can make people think transition will change all their life's problems), and had enough money to accelerate the process, lying to therapists and doctors, and after he'd transitioned, realized it wasn't right for him and transitioned back. He now assumes that because it wasn't a fit for him, all transgender treatment is bunk and no one should transition.
So yes, the author is pushing an agenda. Also a multitude of sensationalist books and a lecture circuit. He's a darling among conservative Christian ex-gay types and anti-trans radical lesbians alike.
There isn't a common trend of misdiagnosis, but what people like Walt ignore is that therapists can only work with what the client tells them. If you lie to your therapist, then yes, you can get the wrong diagnosis. There are already many barriers in place (which keep poorer transd women from accessing the healthcare they need) to try...
Ah, so my hunch that something is wrong was correct.
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Could it be that two years timetable used in Sweden is just too short time to weed out folks that are not ready/never will be ready for the full transition and to drill in the awareness that it will change only aspect of your life and you still have to deal with all the other things?
I still have hunch that it might primarily reporting/research issue, though, not an accurate number.
As Gaberlunzie said, I think it has more to do with Sweden's archaic and insulting gender investigations, and even then I highly suspect the 1-in-3 statistic is complete bunk.
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It might be caused by some cultural and social differences between USA and Sweden, but with such great difference (ca. 5% vs ca. 33%) it seems to be more a matter of research/reporting/organized bias issue.I agree with Qunnessaa. Giving transition only 2 years seems kind of suspect. 5 years is the number that I've always heard.It seems to vary wildly across the world. Two years is about the time it takes, at least, to go through the "gender investigation" once you've come into contact with one of the "gender clinics", but you can't just go there, you have to be referred by a psychiatrist or someone in a similar position. And they are apparently very gatekeeping, much more so than in the US, and basically require that you are how it fits into their narrative of a "true" trans person (for a woman, having always been very feminine and interested in stereotypically feminine things, preferably being straight in a relationship with a straight man, etc etc).
So a lot of trans people that don't fit into this narrow narrative have to lie a lot to be sure to get treatment.
Yeah, that's how it used to be in the U.S. as well. And I wouldn't be surprised if some therapists in the US still take that approach.
By 5 years, I meant, it's supposed to take around 5 years, give or take, for hormone therapy to have it's full effects. As Qunnessaa said, it's basically going through puberty again. There's more to transition than that, obviously, but that would at least give a better timetable for such a survey, I'd think.
Edit to add: And it was just last year that the Swedish law requiring forced sterilization for trans people was repealed.
I would note that it is endlessly drilled into you if you go through the process that this will not fix all your problems. It will fix the one, if you have it. A few people manage to deceive themselves or their therapists and come out the other side with deep regrets. If you aren't transgendered before then you will be when you're done. It is not something to be taken lightly. Those few are far in the minority. There is likely to a be larger number of people who DID expect it to fix all of their problems despite the warnings and it didn't. But, in my experience everyone I've personally met and talked with the exception of 1 woman and possibly 1 other who had fully self realized yet, had been much happier post transition.Could it be that two years timetable used in Sweden is just too short time to weed out folks that are not ready/never will be ready for the full transition and to drill in the awareness that it will change only aspect of your life and you still have to deal with all the other things?
I still have hunch that it might primarily reporting/research issue, though, not an accurate number.
Two years is very much at the low end, and I'm also quite sure the 33% statistic just isn't true. While there definitely are people that regret transitioning, it seems extremely unlikely to be so many.
It could be that the 33% statistic is comparing right before to right after, and of course it could be that a lot of people who have just been through that quite heavy change could feel low for various reasons, especially considering they have to avoid the gatekeeping and possibly lie about their gender to the gender investigations (for example, claiming to be a trans woman when you're trans feminine but nonbinary but still feel a lot of dysphoria; I know that specific thing has occured at least once, and yes, she felt very bad about that).
It's more interesting to look at how they feel about it a year or two down the road, when your mood might have stabilized a bit after the huge changes you've gone through.
As Gaberlunzie said, I think it has more to do with Sweden's archaic and insulting gender investigations, and even then I highly suspect the 1-in-3 statistic is complete bunk.Could it be that two years timetable used in Sweden is just too short time to weed out folks that are not ready/never will be ready for the full transition and to drill in the awareness that it will change only aspect of your life and you still have to deal with all the other things?
I still have hunch that it might primarily reporting/research issue, though, not an accurate number.
I would write down Polish proverb about three grades of truth but the core of it would be lost in translation (and profanity filter).
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Also, it should be noted that until very recently, the law required anyone who juridically transitioned should be sterilized (even if there where no medical issues with them getting kids) and any saved eggs/sperm be destroyed, which I imagine could easily explain why a lot of people feel bad right after transitioning.
A lot of cis people who freely and willingly sterilize themselves because they want to still feel a lot of regret and get depressed right afterwards, even if they're long term satisfied with doing that. When you're instead forcefully sterilized just to recieve necessary medical treatment, I'd imagine it'd be a lot worse.
Fortunately, they've _finally_ removed that requirement, but won't try to help all those who they've forcefully sterilized.
Yay, eugenics. *pukes*
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Also, it should be noted that until very recently, the law required anyone who juridically transitioned should be sterilized (even if there where no medical issues with them getting kids) and any saved eggs/sperm be destroyed
:O
That's an absolute abomination. What was the medical or ethical rationale used to even vaguely attempt to rationalize that? That's horrific. :(
Also, it should be noted that until very recently, the law required anyone who juridically transitioned should be sterilized (even if there where no medical issues with them getting kids) and any saved eggs/sperm be destroyed:O
That's an absolute abomination. What was the medical or ethical rationale used to even vaguely attempt to rationalize that? That's horrific. :(
Basically, I think, it was down to their not being any transfolk in the legislative who could point out that the law was horribly out of date.
I base this on the fact that when this finally came into the public discourse here a few years back, the most common reaction I saw from politicians that weren't part of the social conservative Christian Democrats or the fascist Sweden Democrats could be boiled down to "What!? That's a ...weird rule..."
As for the initial reason for the rule.
I'm guessing ignorance and fear of something they couldn't understand.
Also, it should be noted that until very recently, the law required anyone who juridically transitioned should be sterilized (even if there where no medical issues with them getting kids) and any saved eggs/sperm be destroyed:O
That's an absolute abomination. What was the medical or ethical rationale used to even vaguely attempt to rationalize that? That's horrific. :(
Basically, I think, it was down to their not being any transfolk in the legislative who could point out that the law was horribly out of date.
I base this on the fact that when this finally came into the public discourse here a few years back, the most common reaction I saw from politicians that weren't part of the social conservative Christian Democrats or the fascist Sweden Democrats could be boiled down to "What!? That's a ...weird rule..."
There's a similar issue with LGBT-rights legislation in the U.S. Something like 9 out of 10 voters (as in the public, not legislators) think such legislation is already in place at the federal level, when it isn't.