"Adding" special materials?


Rules Questions

Sovereign Court

So a player of mine asked if he could improve his +2 earthbreaker by making it adamantine.

My initial inclination (and a careful reading of the Core Rulebook indicated later) was that this is a property of the core weapon (a component) and was a material component that had to be in place prior to the item being imbued by magic. Essentially the metal is "consumed" by the magic and this cannot be changed without sundering the effects.

Therefore, in order for this to happen, he would have to craft or purchase an earthbreaker that was already adamantine and add the magic bonuses or pay outright to do so.

I'm comfortable with that ruling, as is the player (who is a smith & currently has Master Craftsman for weapons anyway), but I was curious as to what other GMs / Groups are doing or think on this.

Thoughts?


Polymorph any object after targeted dispell magic?

Grand Lodge

You have it correct. Sans massive magic, in order to have magical weapons and armor of different materials they first need to be made of those materials and then enchanted with enhancements. The bonus is that most special materials make any item masterwork.

Liberty's Edge

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I would allow a spell similar to Masterwork transformation to remove any hassle to a player's wishes. Ie, pay the relevant costs and you get what you want, rather than selling what you have at half-price and buying what you want (enchantments included) at full price.


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I don't think I've ever run with a DM who would have said "no" to such a request, nor would I if it were my call. You are basically forcing the character to spend twice the wealth on a weapon for a simple upgrade if they weren't crafting and break evenish if they craft it. Yes they will recoup some of the cost by selling the existing item at half price, but they are going to spend that on crafting the new one plus the upgrade cost right? Saying "no" is basically just making more work for the sake of it, in a best case scenario. And it is almost a punishment for the player for not thinking ahead. Would you make a player who made a bad choice on a feat 2 levels ago keep the feat when it never gets used? Or would you let the player "retrain" or swap it out?

Truthfully I tend to plan out progression for a character and have special mat items bought intially then upgrade from there as funds become available. I don't think a character should be penalized for lacking the foresight to make the weapon a specific material from the get go however.


Skylancer4 wrote:

I don't think I've ever run with a DM who would have said "no" to such a request, nor would I if it were my call. You are basically forcing the character to spend twice the wealth on a weapon for a simple upgrade if they weren't crafting and break evenish if they craft it. Yes they will recoup some of the cost by selling the existing item at half price, but they are going to spend that on crafting the new one plus the upgrade cost right? Saying "no" is basically just making more work for the sake of it, in a best case scenario. And it is almost a punishment for the player for not thinking ahead. Would you make a player who made a bad choice on a feat 2 levels ago keep the feat when it never gets used? Or would you let the player "retrain" or swap it out?

Truthfully I tend to plan out progression for a character and have special mat items bought intially then upgrade from there as funds become available. I don't think a character should be penalized for lacking the foresight to make the weapon a specific material from the get go however.

It's a different play style, is all. People have different ideas where to sacrifice logic for mechanics.

Sovereign Court

@Skylancer4 - We'll have to agree to disagree. I'm a pretty lenient GM in general, but I do ask some level of realism/mutable-logic to maintain suspension of disbelief. I'll grant you that it's easier to ignore special materials in general and just make it an extra gp cost. This strikes me like one would do for shrimp to be added to their steak dinner. You like both, so why not just pay the five more dollars for the add? Okay. Enjoy your meal!

For me... well, I like the story of it and our group prefers to honor that. For us, you're talking about a metal that fell from the heavens(!!). A substance considered amazingly, nay, unnaturally hard in a world that has things like wishes and dragons. A substance *so* difficult to work with that what would normally take a week to smith into a weapon would take the same smith over a year to complete (avg craft check landed in the ~70 week range).

This same weapon will crush doors, pillars, and magical golems to rubble where any other may barely make a dent.

So at my table, no, it's not cheap or easy. These weapons are rare, passed on in whispers and stories, all with deep history and splendor.

Truly the stuff of Legends.


Dom C wrote:

...

For me... well, I like the story of it and our group prefers to honor that. For us, you're talking about a metal that fell from the heavens(!!). A substance considered amazingly, nay, unnaturally hard in a world that has things like wishes and dragons. A substance *so* difficult to work with that what would normally take a week to smith into a weapon would take the same smith over a year to complete (avg craft check landed in the ~70 week range).

This same weapon will crush doors, pillars, and magical golems to rubble where any other may barely make a dent.

So at my table, no, it's not cheap or easy. These weapons are rare, passed on in whispers and stories, all with deep history and splendor.

Truly the stuff of Legends.

Well said. Two thumbs up my friend.

-Flash


Some ideas:

Some people use the spell Masterwork Transformation as the basis for adding non-magic properties to an existing item. However, this is a houserule.

What wouldn't be a houserule would be Limited Wish which should be powerful enough to cover this. Unfortunately the material component costs 1500 and I would also charge the 3000gp for the upgrade itself not to mention the casting by a wizard.

- Gauss


The question is, does the group have Craft Magic Arms and Armor? because if they do and they can just put the +2 back onto the weapon for half price then selling the original weapon at half price really isn't a huge deal, as they can just remake the entire thing for basicly the same price plus the adamintine.

If they don't have that feat, then it would be 4000 gp more expensive though.


Gauss wrote:
What wouldn't be a houserule would be Limited Wish which should be powerful enough to cover this. Unfortunately the material component costs 1500 and I would also charge the 3000gp for the upgrade itself not to mention the casting by a wizard.

Agreed.

Sovereign Court

Captain Moonscar wrote:
Well said. Two thumbs up my friend.

*sweeping bow* thank you, friend. :)

Quatar wrote:


The question is, does the group have Craft Magic Arms and Armor? because if they do and they can just put the +2 back onto the weapon for half price then selling the original weapon at half price really isn't a huge deal, as they can just remake the entire thing for basicly the same price plus the adamintine.

The character in question does have Craft Magic Arms and Armor linked with Master Craftsman (weapons). In the end he wound up with the weapon he was interested in having, and it felt like a victory for him. :)


I would allow a limited wish to meld the requisite amount of adamantine into an existing magic weapon. In other words, you'd pay for the adamantine separately, then the limited wish, then you're done.

I would allow a wish to transform an existing magic weapon into an adamantine version of itself, without needing the adamantine.

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