Best buff comparison, one round, looking for optimal effect across party.
LV1-4:
Bard: Inspire Courage - +1 hit, dam, fear & charm.
Cleric: Bless - +1 hit, fear
Wizard: Enlarge person - +2str, increased base damage
Lv5-6:
Bard: Inspire Courage - +2 hit, dam, fear & charm.
Cleric: Prayer - +1 hit, dam, saves, skill. foes takes a -1 penalty on same.
Wizard: Haste - +1 attack, hit, AC, reflex
Lv7+:
Bard: Inspire courage (move) and Good Hope - +4 hit, dam, +2 saves, skills, ability checks. (Optionally Haste, depending on need)
Cleric: Blessing of Fervor - Variety of bonuses, versatile
Wizard: Optimal buff is still haste.
Sure, a wizard and a cleric can have scrolls of +4 to stat spells, and cast a LOT of good buffs. But theoretical potential =/= actual combat viability. You simply do not have time to stand around buffing for several rounds in 9 our of 10 fights.
|
I'll add something to your post.
Lv 11 + (Quicken metamagic rod)
Bard : Quicken Haste (Free), Inspire Courage +3 (Move), and Good Hope (Standard).
To Hit + 6, Damage +5, SV. Fear & Charm +3, One extra attack or 30ft extra movement.
Cleric : Quicken Prayer (Free), Blessing of Fervor (Standard)
+1 hit, dam, saves, skill. foes takes a -1 penalty on same. Variety of bonuses, versatile.
Wizard : Quicken Haste (Free), Enlarge Person, Mass (Standard)
To Hit +1, Damage (Next dice size for weapon), One extra attack or 30ft extra movement.
I've never looked very much at the Bard class, and most people I know and play with seem to look down upon it. Give me reasons to roll a bard. GO!
I'll try to offer you an extensive post tomorrow, but I'd like to know if you want a melee or an archer bard.
And:Do you use 20 or 15 Point buy?
How do the rest of the party look like?
What books to your DM/GM use?
to you use traits? If yes, is it one or two?
/zark
Why play a Bard? 'Cause my group said I can't play Fighter-type damage dealers anymore, that's why.
On a more serious note, speaking directly to the OP, I'm going to play a Bard because I want to break out of my Fighter shell and experience the different classes. I've done the Ranger thing (loved it), so Bard is next up.
/ Long-term goal is Wizard or bust.
I know that feeling Ioaba. I tried jumping head first into a wizard and cleric and they were okay, but not as fun as I had hoped. As soon as I made my melee bard and starting playing in a Jade Regent game, I was having the time of my life! I hadn't had this much fun with a class in a very long time. We are three games in a Jade Regent campaign and there have been many times where my Bardic Performance has been the deciding factor on whether someone hits or not. The bard is an underdog in PF that does very well if you plan out what you want to do. I think that's why I like him so much. Hidden OP ;)
I ran an arcane duelist bard in a party without an arcane spellcaster from 1 to 16 in a game. He was borderline broken most of the time.
Highish strength + power attack + arcane strike means you're going to be close to the fighter in damage output through the early and midgame, and that's with inspire courage buffing both of you.
Good hope or Heroism stacks with inspire and haste, and generally makes the party absurd.
Dance of 100/Dance of 1000 cuts buffs you to an insane degree for a protracted fight.
Mirror Image is available early-ish and means you can go toe to toe in most encounters as well as the fighter.
If you need long-term travel for the day phantom steed levels with the party and becomes insane at later levels.
Arcane bond = free weapon enchantment and the ability to use a heavy shield/sword and cast spells (or a two-handed weapon).
The early decision you need to make is whether you do offensive casting or buffing. With buffing you're not as concerned about save DCs and only ever need 16 charisma (starting with 14 is plenty). I think with a 20 point buy I did something like this:
18 str (10 + human bonus)
12 con
12 dex
11 int
10 wis
14 chaFirst attribute point to int, rest to cha, and favored class to hit points every level + toughness (d8+3 isn't shabby, especially later when you mirror image gives you a great miss chance in a fight).
I also played an Arcane Duelist. A human Bard called Sharleena. She outdamaged the rogue and a lot of the time she could keep up with the fighter. The fighter obviously dealt more damage than her, but she dealt enough damage to be great.
Her starting stats were:Str: 15
Dex: 14
con: 12
Int: 14
Wis: 7
Char: 16
Having played her I would now created her a bit different. Less char or/and Int and more Str and wis. Dumping wis to 7 was bad.
My bard always had heroism cast on her (and the rogue), and if we didn't have time to buff before a fight she and the rogue still had their bonus from heroism.
She picked most of her favored class bonuses as more spells know. This was extremely useful.
She was crazy good. Had I've been aware of the new feat is UC she would have been even better.
Dimensional Agility and Dimensional Dervish are just crazy good.
@ OP
That said, I think I still prefer the Core bard. At least If you are going to play an archer bard.
As an archer It can actually be better to use a cross bow since the threat range is better and an archer probably won't have a lot of str. An archer bard is far better than an archer rogue since all damage bonus multiply on a critical hit.
At level 7 a bard with: Arcane Strike, Bardic Music, Good hope, Haste will have +5 to hit and 6 to damage. With all the bonus to attack a bard - unlike a rogue - can use rapid shot at deadly aim all the time.
Don't play a controller bard. Perhaps sounds great in theory, but really it is just a bad idea. The Bard just like the Magus and the inquisitor is a hybrid class. It's not a full caster and should NOT be played primarily as a caster.
You play a melee or archer bard and you get a lot of cool stuff on the side that will greatly help you and the party. Spells, bardic knowledge, bardic performance, etc, etc.
But if you want to play a high charisma rogue with focus on spells Core Bard + human + cross bow archer is the way to go.
Human = one more feat for the archer + more skills + more spells known.
Just go dex and char. Con 12 is enough. Just pick enough str so you can carry stuff.
15 point buy: Str: 10, dex 16, con 12, int 10, wis 8, char 16.
20 point buy raise Wis, Int and dex. If you play a core Bard Int 10 is probably enough. Especially if you play human, but int 12 isn't bad. Str 11 is perhaps not bad.
20 point buy: Str: 11, dex 17, con 12, int 10, wis 10, char 16. or
20 point buy: Str: 11, dex 17, con 12, int 12, wis 8, char 16.
Or start with 10 str and add that ability point to con, int or wis.
Con 13 isn't bad if you get con damage.
edit:
or
20 point buy: Str: 10, dex 18, con 12, int 10, wis 8, char 16.
but I would rahter start something like this:
20 point buy: Str: 11, dex 17, con 12, int 12, wis 8, char 16.
Level 20 Bard and that is why you should play one.
I don't know, now that I see this, I have to realize that almost all of the really high level bards are dead. That seems a little discouraging.
Personally I like the Archeologist archetype it replaces the music stuff with dungeoneering abilities you would normally only get from a rogue.
Not that there is anything wrong with music, but I like this archetype ofor pushing the bard more towards the jack-of-all-trades and away from the mainly passive character of the class (because trap sweeping is something the regular bard can't do and support is also available by their spells)
Level 20 Bard and that is why you should play one.I don't know, now that I see this, I have to realize that almost all of the really high level bards are dead. That seems a little discouraging.
Personally I like the Archeologist archetype it replaces the music stuff with dungeoneering abilities you would normally only get from a rogue.
Not that there is anything wrong with music, but I like this archetype ofor pushing the bard more towards the jack-of-all-trades and away from the mainly passive character of the class (because trap sweeping is something the regular bard can't do and support is also available by their spells)
Just to be clear a 'regular' bard can do the trap sweeping. Anyone can find traps (magical or otherwise), trapfinding allows you to disable magical traps with the disable device skill specifically anyone without it can use a different method to disable magical traps.
|
Not that there is anything wrong with music, but I like this archetype ofor pushing the bard more towards the jack-of-all-trades and away from the mainly passive character of the class (because trap sweeping is something the regular bard can't do and support is also available by their spells)
Spending one round at the beginning of combat buffing is passive now? Bards really don't need an Archetype to be an active participant in the fight.
