Sorcerer Polymorpher Question

[AlyxTheKitty]

So, after reading the Polymorph subschool rules I became very sad. If I read them correctly, you lose all Supernatural and Extraordinary Abilities. Before I read that, I was planning on playing an Orc Bloodline Sorcerer polymorph specialized character. My plan was to gain the inherent Strength bonuses even in the polymorphed state, but the abilities are Extraordinary. My hopes were that because the bonuses were inherent bonuses they would persist even when polymorphed. What is the general consensus for this?

[AvalonXQ]

No, you only lose supernatural and extraordinary abilities based on form.

There is no real consensus on what abilities are "based on form" and what abilities aren't. The rules say it's obvious, but it's anything but.

I would say you get to keep the strength bonus.

[AlyxTheKitty]

Alright, that's good. It also makes sense that it would stick even through a new form since it is a constant ability that you can't turn off.

[AvalonXQ]

With a few exceptions, it doesn't seem that most class abilities should be "based on form". After all, Random Monster X that happens to have class levels would have those abilities.

[AlyxTheKitty]

Alright, that makes a lot of sense. It does make sense that at least one Bear would be a heck of a lot stronger than others but most bears can't grow to large size at will.

[LazarX]

Remember that what you get from whatever form you assume is limited by the intersection of two factors.

1. Abilities inherent of the form.

2. Abilities granted by the spell.

What you get lies in the intersection of 1. and 2.

[AlyxTheKitty]

LazarX wrote:

Remember that what you get from whatever form you assume is limited by the intersection of two factors.

1. Abilities inherent of the form.

2. Abilities granted by the spell.

What you get lies in the intersection of 1. and 2.

Hmm, you kinda confused me with that. I've been playing 3.5 and now Pathfinder for a good number of years but I've never dealt with the odd wishy-washiness of arcane casting. Sorry if I seem difficult.

[tom jim]

AlyxTheKitty wrote:

LazarX wrote:

Remember that what you get from whatever form you assume is limited by the intersection of two factors.

1. Abilities inherent of the form.

2. Abilities granted by the spell.

What you get lies in the intersection of 1. and 2.

Hmm, you kinda confused me with that. I've been playing 3.5 and now Pathfinder for a good number of years but I've never dealt with the odd wishy-washiness of arcane casting. Sorry if I seem difficult.

Take for example Beast Shape 1.

from the spell description: wrote:

When you cast this spell, you can assume the form of any Small or Medium creature of the animal type. If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: climb 30 feet, fly 30 feet (average maneuverability), swim 30 feet, darkvision 60 feet, low-light vision, and scent.

If you assume the form of an animal that has a climb speed of 60 feet, you only get a climb speed of 30 feet because of the spell's limitations. If you assume the form of an animal that has a climb speed of 20 feet, you only get a climb speed of 20 feet instead of the 30 listed by the spell description. The 30 foot speed in the spell description is setting an upper bound on how sweet the spell can make you.

Likewise if your shape gives you flight with perfect mobility you only get average and if your shape gives you poor mobility you are stuck with poor.

Relevant polymorph rules text:

Polymorph: a polymorph spell transforms your physical body to take on the shape of another creature. While these spells make you appear to be the creature, granting you a +10 bonus on Disguise skill checks, they do not grant you all of the abilities and powers of the creature. Each polymorph spell allows you to assume the form of a creature of a specific type, granting you a number of bonuses to your ability scores and a bonus to your natural armor. In addition, each polymorph spell can grant you a number of other benefits, including movement types, resistances, and senses. If the form you choose grants these benefits, or a greater ability of the same type, you gain the listed benefit. If the form grants a lesser ability of the same type, you gain the lesser ability instead. Your base speed changes to match that of the form you assume. If the form grants a swim or burrow speed, you maintain the ability to breathe if you are swimming or burrowing. The DC for any of these abilities equals your DC for the polymorph spell used to change you into that form.