You know, I have to tell you that I don't find this plausible. Firstly, it presumes a psychology and mind similar to that of a human's.True to some degree, but let's face it, Orcs, Drow, etc. are basically never portrayed as truly alien. They're 'rubber forehead aliens', basically particular human personality traits taken to extremes with existing human cultural baggage tacked on.
Show me something truly alien, and I have a lot less issues with the atatement "From a human perspective, these things are universally evil." Lovecraftian/Mythos-related stuff is a good example of this, IMO.
I think Orcs are shown as savage beasts, sentient creatures one step above gorillas with a taste for blood and aggression.
I think Drow are shown as sociopathic serial killers, with a love for sadism.
If you were to decide that based upon these two expressions that they have human-like minds and thus should correlate to human ways of thinking and psychological responses, I wouldn't object. However, I would definitely think that you were doing so intentionally, because you simply don't want irreemably evil races.
Secondly, it assumes that the majority of such people could be rehabilitated into functioning members of society. I think our jails are replete with examples of failures of the psychiatric community to "fix" problem cases in humans, much less in an alien mind.Do you know that having been abused as children is a universal trait of serial killers? It is.
This can not possibly be true. Firstly, "abuse" is defined entirely subjectively. Secondly, nothing of this sort is truly universal. Thirdly, you're showing correlation, not causation. And though you can not show causation, you're implying the chicken comes before the egg.
People are mostly screwed up by their upbringing and culture, not their biology (though biology can certainly help). The psychiatric community, as you put it, really can't just fix people, that's not how it works. We have to work with the raw material (upbringing, culture, and all) that we are given. You'll note that I'm not arguing adult Drow should just be jailed or put in therapy...
I find it easy to imagine an Orc or a Drow being raised by the right people turning out all right. I mean, assuming they think like humans only with, say, more aggression and sadism, and less emotional investment in the lives of others. All that's easily controlled with the right kind of upbrining. I believe strongly in the ability of any sapient being to control its impulses and behave in a...
Sure, but you embue these races with the benefit of sapience simply by association with sentience. And you assume that a society based entirely on the principle of fear and power cannot survive. But I submit many countries have successfully done just that for long periods of time.
This is all irrelevant, of course. You can obviously make your drow any way you like. Personally, I find the notion that every "evil" sentient race needs to be steeped in moral ambiguity simply annoying at best and ridiculous at worst. Just my opinion, of course.
In my game the evil races are born evil and are irredeemable. Orcs are born full grown from the earth, so I don't have the women and children problem.
Drow on the other hand, have children. The party is getting to the point where they are going to find the kids in the Drow layer. I'm looking forward to the image of all the Tinker Gnomes they have rescued rushing into battle and slaughtering all the Drow children.
I mentioned that they marched in a line and started singing the "lets kill the drow" song and whistling as they went to battle. The image of all those ruthless midgets killing drow kids is a bit of dark humor. Better still that they are being led into battle by a Paladin.
So what can make this better?
I dont know, maybe its just me but killing non-combatants is evil no matter how you slice it. I mean thats basicly how I define a terrorist, someone that targets non-combatants to intimidate or coerce a population for political purposes.
Were not talking about people that just dont know how to fight effectively like a slave. Were talking about some people (babies) that literally, by definition, lack the capability to defend themselves. Again, maybe its just me but I can not see how anyone can claim murdering a non-combatant is anything but an evil act.
Windcaller, if you were a deer and you found a wolf cub, wouldn't you stomp on it? Killing Drow children, in this setting, can be life and death for Tinker Gnomes because all Drow children grow up to be dangerous, benefit from slavery, or support the Drow slavers / warriors and all of them grow up to be evil: meaning they can not be moved by feelings of kindness, sentiment, or conscience.
Deer do not have higher functioning mental characteristics, philosophical ideals, or morale codes. They operate on instinct, not reason as humans and demi-humans do.
If you're going to stand there and tell me that tinker gnomes operate on the basest levels of instincts and lack high functioning mental characteristics then thats alright. However I dont think thats what you are suggesting.
It sounds to me like you're using the basic idea that growing up in an evil society is cause for any all evil acts against you. Furthermore it also sounds like you're taking away the Drow's ability to reason, they arent animals, theyre people. Yeah people that are probably evil as sin but still people that have the mental acuity to be something else.
Yet you avoided my point. How can people who actually have the ability to reason (i.e. your PCs) claim that murder of an infant is anything but evil? A being that by definition lacks the ability to defend itself?
I'm not dancing around anything. I've stated like 8 or 9 times in the last two days, including the OP of this thread, that Drow are born irredeemably evil. I didn't say it was due to culture. I didn't attribute it to an individual choice. I didn't say there were exceptions. I said they were born evil. They aren't like other races that could benefit from a nurturing environment. They would still not experience kindness as anything other than a useful characteristic, they would still laugh at sentiment, and they still wouldn't have a conscience.
I get that but you didnt answer my question again
How can people who have the ability to reason (i.e. your PCs) claim that murder of an infant is anything but evil?
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This thread is locked. You just made a thread on this topic. And it was also deliberately inflammatory.