My Kingmaker game is going... interestingly


Kingmaker


Okay, so the group has getting fairly interesting with regards to approaching Kingmaker. It took a while for them to get out of the Standard Adventuring Party run, but they're beginning to really think outside the box.

They've not only begun to recruit Wyverns, but also to breed them to create of Royal Air Corps, though they're still haggling over whether it should be cavaliers on them, or bow-specced Rangers.

They're prepping to turn the Abandoned Keep into an Elven settlement, sending word off to the Elven Kingdoms, while they also plot to turn the Dwarven Stronghold Hargulka occupies over to a Dwarven settlement.

The Druid of the party has now taken Leadership, and is running a group of Druids, her cohort at 5th level is now going around doing plant growth on all the fields to enrich the soil before planting season, so that they get increased crop yield (I've had to figure it this way: Every third farm essentially produces another farm's worth of consumption reduction, from the way the spell reads). She has him scribe scrolls of plant growth for aid in this as well. She's actually designing a magic item that reciprocates the effect, specifically the soil enrichment.

She's also decided to set a up a Druid's Grove within Shrikewall, which I have to stat out myself, since nothing like it is really in the book listings. The plan is to start small, and grow the grove out to cover four squares (Think Central Park).

Our Witch is crafting her own magic items for sale with her own funds, and has even hired an NPC for the task. She's starting small with potions, and working her way up. She can do Scrolls, Potions, Wondrous Items, Arms and Armor, as well as wands at this point, and is looking at creating a Witch's coven soon.

The Sootscale clan is about to be expanded since the group wants to build a city district under the silver mine for them.

Plans are already in the works for a Halfling settlement in the southern hill lands.

Edward, the part's king, has rolled a group of Worgs, adding them to the border guards. Add to that the druid is raising Thylacines, one of which is her animal companion, and it's getting really interesting, and I'm fascinated to see what their force is going to look like by the time that they get to the mass combat sections. I just can't help but think they'll have Centaur cavalry added to the mix.

Grand Lodge

DragonStryk72 wrote:

Okay, so the group has getting fairly interesting with regards to approaching Kingmaker. It took a while for them to get out of the Standard Adventuring Party run, but they're beginning to really think outside the box.

They've not only begun to recruit Wyverns, but also to breed them to create of Royal Air Corps, though they're still haggling over whether it should be cavaliers on them, or bow-specced Rangers.

They're prepping to turn the Abandoned Keep into an Elven settlement, sending word off to the Elven Kingdoms, while they also plot to turn the Dwarven Stronghold Hargulka occupies over to a Dwarven settlement.

The Druid of the party has now taken Leadership, and is running a group of Druids, her cohort at 5th level is now going around doing plant growth on all the fields to enrich the soil before planting season, so that they get increased crop yield (I've had to figure it this way: Every third farm essentially produces another farm's worth of consumption reduction, from the way the spell reads). She has him scribe scrolls of plant growth for aid in this as well. She's actually designing a magic item that reciprocates the effect, specifically the soil enrichment.

She's also decided to set a up a Druid's Grove within Shrikewall, which I have to stat out myself, since nothing like it is really in the book listings. The plan is to start small, and grow the grove out to cover four squares (Think Central Park).

Our Witch is crafting her own magic items for sale with her own funds, and has even hired an NPC for the task. She's starting small with potions, and working her way up. She can do Scrolls, Potions, Wondrous Items, Arms and Armor, as well as wands at this point, and is looking at creating a Witch's coven soon.

The Sootscale clan is about to be expanded since the group wants to build a city district under the silver mine for them.

Plans are already in the works for a Halfling settlement in the southern hill lands.

Edward, the part's king, has rolled a group of Worgs, adding them to...

remember plant growth increases growth for everything including weeds. How much crop yield are you going to let them get with their antics? Don't underestimate the choking effect of unwanted growth aka weeds.


PJ wrote:
remember plant growth increases growth for everything including weeds. How much crop yield are you going to let them get with their antics? Don't underestimate the choking effect of unwanted growth aka weeds.

*Or* it increases the growth of crops, as laid out directly in the spell text, the Druid chooses the function of the growth, and the text reads that it raises the crop yield 1/3 above normal, not just growth in general. It's not a bad plan, but with such huge successes, Brevoy is likely to take notice of this, and sooner than they otherwise might have taken notice.

These aren't "antics" as you put it. This is smart people using their abilities in new and interesting ways, and why I should grind it to a halt is simply beyond me. It's helpful, they're engaged, and they're actually getting out of the "Kill, Loot, Sell" cycle.

They're talking about things like political marriages, and expansion beyond the scope of the Kingmaker campaign. They have actual debates about the future of their kingdom, it's great, cause aside from book, I don't have to do anything as GM. They create their own plots

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Hey DragonStryk72, that sounds like a lot of fun, and exactly what a Kingmaker campaign should be. Since they're so into it, make sure you don't rush through this stage. You can always add in some noble intrigue, merchant plots, bandit raids, etc to maintain conflict.

Let us know how it goes.

Grand Lodge

DragonStryk72 wrote:
PJ wrote:
remember plant growth increases growth for everything including weeds. How much crop yield are you going to let them get with their antics? Don't underestimate the choking effect of unwanted growth aka weeds.

*Or* it increases the growth of crops, as laid out directly in the spell text, the Druid chooses the function of the growth, and the text reads that it raises the crop yield 1/3 above normal, not just growth in general. It's not a bad plan, but with such huge successes, Brevoy is likely to take notice of this, and sooner than they otherwise might have taken notice.

These aren't "antics" as you put it. This is smart people using their abilities in new and interesting ways, and why I should grind it to a halt is simply beyond me. It's helpful, they're engaged, and they're actually getting out of the "Kill, Loot, Sell" cycle.

They're talking about things like political marriages, and expansion beyond the scope of the Kingmaker campaign. They have actual debates about the future of their kingdom, it's great, cause aside from book, I don't have to do anything as GM. They create their own plots

That's awesome Dragon, I didn't mean to belittle their ideas .. I just like to throw more challenges their way. I believe if pcs can think of these so can npcs.

Liberty's Edge

If they can only sell items at half price, what's the point of the witch making items for sale? Unless she's selling to party members....

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

It is a awfully large number of casting of Plant growth. Even with a half mile radius you need plenty of spells to cover a whole 12 miles hex (to cover it completely you need to overlap the spells).
A hex has a surface of approximately 93.5 square miles. A single casting of the spell cover 0.785 square miles.
Even without overlapping it will require 120 casting of the spell to cover 1 hexagon.
I don't recall the formula to calculate the overlaps, but 1/10 should be a decent approximation (4 circles tangent to each other at the corner of a square, a 5th in the centre to cover the remaining area). That push it to 132 spells. A 5th level druid with 16+ wisdom will have to cast Plant growth for two months to cover 1 hexagon.

I think it would work better to give a +1 or +2 to economy to represent the druid work (and he would still be unavailable for months). The bonus could be swapped for a similar bonus to loyalty (the people are happy because they get more food and it show that the lord care for them).

@Achilles
A PC can sell magic items at half prices under the normal rules, but in Kingmaker he will have a permanent base, so he could:
- have a henchmen, follower or employee take orders for him and deliver them as soon as he can produce the item, in that situation he will get full price for the item and have to pay some kind of wage or a reward to the employee;
- get into a agreement with one of the city shops to be one of the regular suppliers. he would get more than 50% of the item price but less than 100%. The shop owner will take all the risks and manage his administration, so it would be a almost "hands free" way to do this;
- have the same guy manage a shop for him. Depending on the situation the guy will take a percentage of the profits or get a salary. The shop would have some operating cost but it should generate some kind of profit from the sales of more mundane materials. The magic items would be sold at full price. There is a risk of a robbery at the shop, so the PC should have to invest in some kind of security.

The third option is the one where he would get more money (at least in theory), as the first two depend on other guys orders, but it is the one where he would have to spend more time managing the shop too.

All have interesting role playing ramifications.

Grand Lodge

Diego Rossi wrote:

It is a awfully large number of casting of Plant growth. Even with a half mile radius you need plenty of spells to cover a whole 12 miles hex (to cover it completely you need to overlap the spells).

A hex has a surface of approximately 93.5 square miles. A single casting of the spell cover 0.785 square miles.
Even without overlapping it will require 120 casting of the spell to cover 1 hexagon.
I don't recall the formula to calculate the overlaps, but 1/10 should be a decent approximation (4 circles tangent to each other at the corner of a square, a 5th in the centre to cover the remaining area). That push it to 132 spells. A 5th level druid with 16+ wisdom will have to cast Plant growth for two months to cover 1 hexagon.

I think it would work better to give a +1 or +2 to economy to represent the druid work (and he would still be unavailable for months). The bonus could be swapped for a similar bonus to loyalty (the people are happy because they get more food and it show that the lord care for them).

@Achilles
A PC can sell magic items at half prices under the normal rules, but in Kingmaker he will have a permanent base, so he could:
- have a henchmen, follower or employee take orders for him and deliver them as soon as he can produce the item, in that situation he will get full price for the item and have to pay some kind of wage or a reward to the employee;
- get into a agreement with one of the city shops to be one of the regular suppliers. he would get more than 50% of the item price but less than 100%. The shop owner will take all the risks and manage his administration, so it would be a almost "hands free" way to do this;
- have the same guy manage a shop for him. Depending on the situation the guy will take a percentage of the profits or get a salary. The shop would have some operating cost but it should generate some kind of profit from the sales of more mundane materials. The magic items would be sold at full price. There is a risk of a robbery at the shop, so the PC should have to...

All great ideas and I knew it wouldn't as easy as dragon made it with the plant growth spells.


The person casting plant growth does not have to cover the entire hex.

Space on the hex has to account for farmhouses, roads, rivers, trees, etc. Plots of land are likely more like 50% of a hex's area if that.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Yes Caspian, but plant growth don't have a shapeable area of effect. It affect a radius from a centre point.
So Not affecting a road or river that run in the middle of the fields will require you not to affect some field.
I don't see why you would not include the trees. Apples, pears, wood for the hearts or building maintenance are all useful products and all used to cover consumption.
You will want to cover even grassland as it will be used as grazing lands and a better rate of growth for the plants will allow for more animals.

Casting the spell "here" because there are only farmalnds in the area of effect but not "there" because half of the area is road, river or built over is the better way to get strife in your territory.

"Farmer Jones get the blessing of the lands and increase yield, he is already the richer guy in the area and he get even richer. We that cultivate the badlands never get it as it would be wasteful to spend the spell on our lands."Great way to reduce your people loyalty and your kingdom stability.

Grand Lodge

Diego Rossi wrote:

Yes Caspian, but plant growth don't have a shapeable area of effect. It affect a radius from a centre point.

So Not affecting a road or river that run in the middle of the fields will require you not to affect some field.
I don't see why you would not include the trees. Apples, pears, wood for the hearts or building maintenance are all useful products and all used to cover consumption.
You will want to cover even grassland as it will be used as grazing lands and a better rate of growth for the plants will allow for more animals.

Casting the spell "here" because there are only farmalnds in the area of effect but not "there" because half of the area is road, river or built over is the better way to get strife in your territory.

"Farmer Jones get the blessing of the lands and increase yield, he is already the richer guy in the area and he get even richer. We that cultivate the badlands never get it as it would be wasteful to spend the spell on our lands."Great way to reduce your people loyalty and your kingdom stability.
These are the kind of stuff I would throw at my pcs. It's never as cut and dry or as easy as a spell.


PJ wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:

Yes Caspian, but plant growth don't have a shapeable area of effect. It affect a radius from a centre point.

So Not affecting a road or river that run in the middle of the fields will require you not to affect some field.
I don't see why you would not include the trees. Apples, pears, wood for the hearts or building maintenance are all useful products and all used to cover consumption.
You will want to cover even grassland as it will be used as grazing lands and a better rate of growth for the plants will allow for more animals.

Casting the spell "here" because there are only farmalnds in the area of effect but not "there" because half of the area is road, river or built over is the better way to get strife in your territory.

"Farmer Jones get the blessing of the lands and increase yield, he is already the richer guy in the area and he get even richer. We that cultivate the badlands never get it as it would be wasteful to spend the spell on our lands."Great way to reduce your people loyalty and your kingdom stability.
These are the kind of stuff I would throw at my pcs. It's never as cut and dry or as easy as a spell.

My group is attempting the same maneuver with plant growth. This is how i handled it:

Ok, i did the math. According to http://www.deirdremccloskey.com/docs/pdf/Article_50.pdf an open field system farmer needed 20 acres of land to sustain themselves. Since the farm mechanic produces 2BP, and the hex consumes 1BP, i just have to multiply the 20 acres by the population divided by 2 to represent a wife. Then multiply by 2 because it is producing food for the equivalent of another hex. So about 5,000 acres are harvested fields. That is 8% of the hex. Most of those families live in the farming village clustered near a noble farmstead, 8% of 93.5 square miles is 10 square miles. Divide that by 0.8 (the square mile casting area) is 12 castings per farm hex. Which at 4 castings per day is 3 days per hex. Or 2 hex per week, and one week per month managing the kingdom, means that this year you could boon 24 farm hexes assuming 100% efficiency. Only if an edict if declared to build round farms, which pisses off some non economist minded farmers that see good soil on the edges of their land.

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