Negative AC?

[Brainiac58]

I have what is probably a stupid question. I'm creating a colossal (-8 to AC for size) ooze with a Dex 1 (-5 to AC). Can a monster have a negative AC? Does this mean opponents would have an automatic +3 to hit it?

[Bardic Dave]

I think it would mean that you Autohit on everything but a 1, same as 1 or 0 AC. Unless the person attacking also had a negative to hit…

[Ravingdork]

Negative ACs are possible. They do not translate as +'s to hit anymore than a lower DC translates to +'s on skill checks.

[Deadmanwalking]

Using the scaling rules, your Ooze should have a minimum of a +14 Natural Armor bonus...rather intentionally negating this problem for most purposes.

[Axl]

Deadmanwalking wrote:

Using the scaling rules, your Ooze should have a minimum of a +14 Natural Armor bonus...rather intentionally negating this problem for most purposes.

Could be a touch attack.

[Dragonamedrake]

Dont Ooze get NA based on size.

I threw a Gray Ooze in the monster builder and made it colossal and it had +9 NA which gave it an AC of 8.

[Frankthedm]

Constructs get bonus HP based on size. Natural armor sound like the opposite of being oozey.

[Deadmanwalking]

Frankthedm wrote:

Constructs get bonus HP based on size. Natural armor sound like the opposite of being oozey.

The scaling rules in Monster Advancement are pretty explicit and do not differentiate by creature type. They give anything moved up from Medium to Collossal a total of +14 Natural Armor AC.

[Pirate]

Yar!

You'd treat any potential negative AC the same way you do a positive AC.

The attacker rolls his attack as normal.

You compare the result against the AC.

If the attack roll is higher than the AC, you've successfully hit it.

Remember, there are things, situations, circumstances, abilities and spells that apply penalties/negatives to a persons attack roll, so it IS possible (albeit very rare) for someone to miss such a low AC with something higher than a rolled 1, but it's very unlikely.

~P

[Staffan Johansson]

Deadmanwalking wrote:

Using the scaling rules, your Ooze should have a minimum of a +14 Natural Armor bonus...rather intentionally negating this problem for most purposes.

Oozes generally don't have much in the way of natural armor. The only ooze from the Bestiary that does is the Shoggoth, which doesn't have much in common with the other oozes (black pudding, gelatinous cube, gray ooze, and ochre jelly) other than general amorphousness.

Which reminds me of another thing I'd like to see if/when they get around to making a Pathfinder v2: either remove creature type as a mechanical concept altogether (it's fine for things like Bane and Favored Enemy, but it's bad for determining creature stats), or at least separate out the stuff that's actually based on the creature type from the stuff that's just common among them. Just because the black pudding and gelatinous cube are mindless it doesn't mean that ALL oozes have to be mindless.

[Odraude]

Generally speaking, Oozes have very low AC but have incredibly high Constitution scores and ooze traits as a superb defense.

[gustavo iglesias]

Yes, you can have -3AC.
If a Dex 1 wizard tries to shoot a pistol he is not proficent with (-4) to such Ooze, and rolls, say, a 4, he gets a total of -5. He misses. However, if same Wizard shoots and gets a 6, he gets a total of -3, and thus, hits.

[Frankthedm]

Staffan Johansson wrote:

Just because the black pudding and gelatinous cube are mindless it doesn't mean that ALL oozes have to be mindless.

The type does account for that possibility, but on the most part, amorphousness kinda precludes thinking organs. But should an ooze develop a semistable brain, it will lose Mindless.

"Mindless: No Intelligence score, and immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects). An ooze with an Intelligence score loses this trait."

[Brainiac58]

Thanks for the clarification and input everyone. It is very helpful. I didn't have natural armor factored in. It seems kind of strange to have an ooze with natural armor. The oozes I reviewed didn't have a natural armor bonus, even the very large ones...