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My interpretation when this came up was that she would kill them all. She's not fighting to defend herself or trying to escape. She's desperate, and she wants the PCs silenced. The only way to do that is to kill them all.
Granted, my players' PCs weren't scattered all over the marketplace, and she had arrows left. Additionally, they'd made a very poor reputation for themselves up to that point, so Parani would have no trouble whatsoever in painting them as villains and justifying the kills.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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both Cheliaxians dropped mind chase scene, because of a Cheliax social gathering.
That's awesome! When I went through this as a player, the Chelish tea party is where we caught up to the guy and initiated what ended up being a multi-round, embarassingly ineffectual slap-fight that finally ended as all seven of us dogpiled him and tied him up.
Meanwhile, flustered Chelaxian tea drinkers sit, sip, scowl, and comment on how barbaric we all are. :P
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both Cheliaxians dropped mind chase scene, because of a Cheliax social gathering.That's awesome! When I went through this as a player, the Chelish tea party is where we caught up to the guy and initiated what ended up being a multi-round, embarassingly ineffectual slap-fight that finally ended as all seven of us dogpiled him and tied him up.
Meanwhile, flustered Chelaxian tea drinkers sit, sip, scowl, and comment on how barbaric we all are. :P
My guys relized they were at a chelish tea party, and after they captured the guy there, they made comments about stupid andorans, trying to interrupt, apoligized to the hostess, and bowed to the crowd telling the crowd that they were safe
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Well, they managed to botch the evidence thing, too. The project was a wholesale failure for the Pathfinders (except that they got to keep the keg). We had great fun.
Just goes to show that a failed mission can be just as much of a hoot as a successful one. :] Glad you all had a good time!
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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My interpretation when this came up was that she would kill them all. She's not fighting to defend herself or trying to escape. She's desperate, and she wants the PCs silenced. The only way to do that is to kill them all.
Which is fine also. She's a pretty heartless villain. I'm usually a softie as a GM though.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Having played this, just this last Wednesday with an incredible GM (Jeff Stop) I have to say I'm suitably impressed with the writing and flavor of the module.
I dont know where the mod, and the acumen of GM came, but the flavor was intense, and the story was solid, so much so that both Cheliaxians dropped mind chase scene, because of a Cheliax social gathering.
After all, when you put Ferris Bueller in a chase scene, and he jumps a fence into a gathering of Cheliax lovely's - well obviously the chase isn't just as important anymore ^_^Great mod, would recommend again, as well as the DM to anyone.
This is great, glad to hear that Jeff managed to paint a great word picture of the scene and your players got into the spirit of it.
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Agreed. I would respect a GM who took a strong stance and did not allow any options outside of the chase exactly as written in PFS play. And I would back them 100% if they made that call at one of my game days.I am vastly in favor of these modifications for chases, though unfortunately in PFS, we may not be allowed to do that, technically. In my home games I always allow this, and I asked the GM if I could do this in my last PFS game with chases--I actually asked if it would be okay if I spent 5 rounds to bypass the square since I literally couldn't succeed on a natural 20.Man, this thread frustrates me. I can't believe that there are judges who believe in pure PFS RAW over RAI. I feel sorry for those playgroups.
Thankfully, I know that there are many judges out there whom I have complete trust to gently adjust things like this, as needed to fit their play groups without ruining the intent of the chase encounter.
I long for the day when we can have an open and honest discussion about our judging practices and what is best for our playgroups. I long for the day, Rogue and Kristie, when threads like this are full of good discussions how better to adjust mods like this to different situations and playgroups, where judges can share their passion and ideas rather than their frustrations.
I dream of a better PFS.
-Pain
I feel your pain Painlord and totally agree. Interstingly, when I played Midnight Mauler, my character pulled out a potion of fly, and was able, due this tactic to bypass most of the skill checks (I would have made them make a perception checks) to keep track of the Mauler on the ground.
Simularly, in this scenario (played last night), my character, in the warehouse scene
Thing is, any GM who "did not allow any options outside of the chase exactly as written in PFS play" is breaking the rules as as written for PFS play, specifically the reward creative solutions clause.
Quite frankly, reward creative solutions is the solution in the chase scenes.
Also, Marv, King of Orcish Barbacue, asks that you eat at his establishment when in Absolon. Also, while one of his sisters is happily married off to some peasant in the village of the Nesting Swallow, his sister who is a bard (Charisma not a dump stat!) is still availible.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Thing is, any GM who "did not allow any options outside of the chase exactly as written in PFS play" is breaking the rules as as written for PFS play, specifically the reward creative solutions clause.
+1
It's a pet peeve of mine when people can't tell the difference between "the results of running scenarios as written" and "the results of running scenarios incompetently and claiming to have run them as written".
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...snipping lots of good stuff...
Also, Marv, King of Orcish Barbacue, asks that you eat at his establishment when in Absolon. Also, while one of his sisters is happily married off to some peasant in the village of the Nesting Swallow, his sister who is a bard (Charisma not a dump stat!) is still availible.
Hmmm... looks like you may need my services.
Giamo Casanunda - Cleric of Cayden, the god of love. (yeah, really, sub-domain love), at your service. (see my card on the character discription). With profession Matchmaker, I would like to ask, are you currently involved in a long term relationship? Would you like to be?
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...snipping lots of good stuff...
Also, Marv, King of Orcish Barbacue, asks that you eat at his establishment when in Absolon. Also, while one of his sisters is happily married off to some peasant in the village of the Nesting Swallow, his sister who is a bard (Charisma not a dump stat!) is still availible.
Hmmm... looks like you may need my services.
Giamo Casanunda - Cleric of Cayden, the god of love. (yeah, really, sub-domain love), at your service. (see my card on the character discription). With profession Matchmaker, I would like to ask, are you currently involved in a long term relationship? Would you like to be?
Relax Giamo, perhaps he is in need of someone elses professional services... of a less "formal" or "long term" nature.
Marv dear, have you discussed this "availablilty" with the sister in question? Perhaps she is not as "availible" as you might think. If you might introduce us, perhaps I might be able to provide her with some... "opportunities"... one bard to another.
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Thing is, any GM who "did not allow any options outside of the chase exactly as written in PFS play" is breaking the rules as as written for PFS play, specifically the reward creative solutions clause.+1
It's a pet peeve of mine when people can't tell the difference between "the results of running scenarios as written" and "the results of running scenarios incompetently and claiming to have run them as written".
Its also fun when
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Casting spells is explicitly allowed in the chase rules and there are no special spellcasting rules for use during a chase scene*. Another example might be using a bolo or a tanglefoot bag in a chase scene. The only tricky bit for GMs is that chase cards don't have clear indications about line of sight between cards. Also, something like wall of stone could dramatically affect the chase causing GM aneurisms (it could also really irritate local merchants and authorities who have to suddenly deal with a road or business blocked with a permanent wall).
I suspect one of the frustrations people have with the chase rules is that since GMs don't use them often they tend to be less understood than the normal game rules and the chase rules often do require more creative application of the rules. Old school GMs likely adapt a bit better because we used to have to answer questions like "Do I have line of sight to him?" a lot.
Explosive runes
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When I ran this scenario, there was a paladin character who was unable (literally) to make the DC of one of the checks and the other was a trained only skill. I had ruled that characters could aid companions in the same square with skill checks in lieu of moving to the next square. The player with the paladin got left behind and asked if he could move back to the previous square and attempt both checks to bypass where he was stuck. It made sense, so I allowed it (not that it did much good as his rolls were pretty poor), but it kept him in the mix.
The warehouse, on the other hand, did not go well.
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...snipping lots of good stuff...
Also, Marv, King of Orcish Barbacue, asks that you eat at his establishment when in Absalon. Also, while one of his sisters is happily married off to some peasant in the village of the Nesting Swallow, his sister who is a bard (Charisma not a dump stat!) is still availible.
Hmmm... looks like you may need my services.
Giamo Casanunda - Cleric of Cayden, the god of love. (yeah, really, sub-domain love), at your service. (see my card on the character discription). With profession Matchmaker, I would like to ask, are you currently involved in a long term relationship? Would you like to be?
I am not involved, because I was busy taking care of my younger sister. As for what I understand about romance, drugs i.e. philters is the way to go. My parents spent the 25 years under the influence of these potions and had three children, raising us with good family values.
I am a little worried about my sister, she has ideas about 'romance' without drugs. Perhaps you could help her with this? As for me, do you have ideas. What am I to do if Charisma is my dump stat.I was considering dating the villian from this module (she's good with a bow, which is good for getting food for barbacue. What do you think?
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Regarding chases and GM fiat: I've tried to allow my players a lot of latitude on chases, but ultimately it boils down to a dissociated game mechanic. "You run into an abandoned building. You can climb out over it, or you can use Knowledge (engineering) to find a way through the center, and then you'll be on the waterfront. If you find a way through the ruins and then also climb over them, you'll avoid the waterway and the enraged mob." That just doesn't make any sense.
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Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
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Putting in trained only skills, and squares with near-impossible checks for certain classes (paladins, I'm looking squarely in your direction with dual acrobatics and swim checks), does not make a chase fun. In fact it makes it not a chase if the player is never chasing the opponent.
They're not a lot of fun for characters with less than 20' movement, either. Fortunately I ran into this one at Kublacon while playing my (human) urban adventuring monk. But the next day I was running a dwarf (the only character I had that was eligible for a level 3-7 scenario) in "The Midnight Mauler". The -2 on several skill checks, combined with trained-only skills, basically meant I ended up sidelined and unable to progress. At least I had company; one of the other characters ended up stuck alongside me for quite a while.
Given the fact that the whole chase can often be totally avoided by flying characters, and even the best-built low-tier (1-2 or 3-4) characters might not yet have had enough points to spend to get a whole lot of trained-only skills (bards, rogues and rangers excepted, of course), I regard chase scenes with about as much enthusiasm as I have for mandatory trained-only skill checks for faction missions.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Regarding chases and GM fiat: I've tried to allow my players a lot of latitude on chases, but ultimately it boils down to a dissociated game mechanic. "You run into an abandoned building. You can climb out over it, or you can use Knowledge (engineering) to find a way through the center, and then you'll be on the waterfront. If you find a way through the ruins and then also climb over them, you'll avoid the waterway and the enraged mob." That just doesn't make any sense.
Yeah, the whole "muck around here for longer than you should, but do so very well, and you'll teleport 60ft" thing is a little weird.
Director of Brand Strategy
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I wonder if mechanics similar to the chase encounters could be used for other things, like say researching in an ancient library or possibly solving a rune puzzle.
Check out The Pallid Plague for a skill challenge that uses similar mechanics. I'd be interested to hear how folks think that works, as I'm always looking for ways to make non-combat encounters easier to run and challenging for all members of a party.
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I wonder if mechanics similar to the chase encounters could be used for other things, like say researching in an ancient library or possibly solving a rune puzzle.
Hmm...you can change the rules around a bit, say that each "round" represents some hours of work, and have the Pathfinders and the Aspis Consortium both with teams racing each other to decipher clues. Heck, to break up the "chase" part so it isn't all at once, you could have some of the cards correspond to actual locations where you pull back from the chase, have an encounter, pick up the next clue, and then go back to the ongoing research chase (with the encounter being a bit different if you get to that card before the Consortium). This could be a wonderful idea for an entire scenario proposal, actually.
I think the type of players who would appreciate the research chase chart are the ones who groan at the tenth scenario where, no matter how quickly or slowly the party has dealt with the stuff in the scenario (and sometimes even if you rest a day after every encounter), the Aspis Consortium show up right at the end just in time to be foiled, with no chance of just making off with the prize (and no chance of the Pathfinders just flat out kicking their ass and finding what they need and leaving before they even arrive, either).
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Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
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I wonder if mechanics similar to the chase encounters could be used for other things, like say researching in an ancient library or possibly solving a rune puzzle.Hmm...you can change the rules around a bit, say that each "round" represents some hours of work, and have the Pathfinders and the Aspis Consortium both with teams racing each other to decipher clues. Heck, to break up the "chase" part so it isn't all at once, you could have some of the cards correspond to actual locations where you pull back from the chase, have an encounter, pick up the next clue, and then go back to the ongoing research chase (with the encounter being a bit different if you get to that card before the Consortium). This could be a wonderful idea for an entire scenario proposal, actually.
Mechanically, chase encounters are somewhat similar to the "Choose Your Own Adventure!" books - a branching plot (with multiple paths to most of the decision points). They also had a different wrinkle - if you failed the test you could end up at yet another point, rather than just staying at the same place and facing the same challenge or challenges.
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Ok, so a while back I submitted an adventure, If it is selected from Open call, (and that might be a longshot being as I don't know if the creative team will think I was attempting to be comical with my script, I really wasn't but Goblins were involved) But If I get that scenario published I think I would like to include something like this in one of the encounters. As soon as I get my customary rejection letter from Mark :p I'll post more about how I think that could work.
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I ran this one and everyone enjoyed it. Our ninja was the star of the scenario in both the chase and the final encounter. Poor cleric and dwarven cavalier never made it out of the first chase box!
Regarding this chase (and Midnight Mauler, as I'm running that in a few weeks) how does a "double move" work. Both scenarios state the chasee will attempt a double move. The GMG rules have one square or triple square advancement, but the scenarios both say the chasee won't try triple advancement. Did I miss something errat'd?
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The chase rules are a mess in the first place, sort of like how it's a move action to move across a square and a standard action to attempt a challenge, implying a whole turn to get through a single square, yet the rules go on to imply the possibility of faster movement than that (that's also how every chase I've seen has been run).
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I might advise skipping the chase with large groups or at conventions. Both times I ran it it ate up the majority of time, especially with Tier 1-2 groups, as the skill challenges don't scale down. At one table (A table of seven PCs) it ate up so much of the time that I had to move the BBEG to the ambush scene and we still went over (Skipping the Warehouse and God's Market entirely).
I had to eventually enact a mercy rule to get one group through it, as some of the DCs (Particularly in skills in which people generally only put a rank, like swim, climb, and escape artist) are rather high. Not to mention some of the previously mentioned areas that are just impossible for anyone in armor, I had to allow some creative methods to get by, or common sense solutions (If PC A opens the gate, its obviously open for the rest of the people, or if PC B scares off the crowd, they aren't going to be there when PC A goes through) but the DC 23 climb check seems a bit much.
Having said that, this is a lot of fun with the right group. More then just a hack and slash adventure.
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When I played through it as a PC, the fighter in our group ran through the whole building setting it on fire before half of us got in there. Win initiative, set the place ablaze. Needless to say, that part of the scenario was a complete botch. My magus barely made the save once the Fortitude Save DC got up to DC 21.
Luckily, I got out after making the save and saved our Hedge Witch in the process. Everyone else had gotten out no problem. The most fun for me, however, was getting bailed out by Grandmaster Torch who expressed his 'disappointment' in us to which my magus offered his rebuttal. "Hey, if we hadn't gotten out of there, we would've ended up looking like you." Dylan seemed speechless and when asked if that was in character, I responded with, "Of course it is. I'm not Shadow Lodge."
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Remember that anything which increases your speed gives you substantial bonuses on any check in the chase.
When I played this, the first round of the chase was 3/6 party members casting Expeditious Retreat on themselves then making the checks fairly easily. My inquisitor had a total of +8 to all checks to exit a square from the combination of Expeditious Retreat and the travel domain. I think we caught the guy right outside the Chelish tea-party.
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I might advise skipping the chase with large groups or at conventions. Both times I ran it it ate up the majority of time, especially with Tier 1-2 groups, as the skill challenges don't scale down. ...
Having said that, this is a lot of fun with the right group. More then just a hack and slash adventure.
Ran a chase scene last night, and while some of the stats gave us problems, I really worry for the lower tier. When I run it again I will thin it down. As it went on and we got the hang of it, it started going much better. The party also tried to discover ways AROUND the two given skill checks. I think they enjoyed the discovery aspect of it. :)
I did give a +2 circumstance bonus on a check for each person who had already succeeded.
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ok, just because this is me... can you take ten on skills during a Chase?I would call a chase equivalent to combat for purposes of T10.Why? You're not threatened, and you're not really distracted.
Much like what nosig says, this seems like a case where you're distracted by needing to rush because the guy's getting away. Your attention is divided between trying to move quickly and trying to focus on the skill at hand.
