| 2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
I'm currently DM'ing for a group and a question was asked about FLesh golems and their Immunity to magic trait.
A flesh golem is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance. In addition, certain spells and effects function differently against the creature, as noted below.
A magical attack that deals cold or fire damage slows a flesh golem (as the slow spell) for 2d6 rounds (no save).
A magical attack that deals electricity damage breaks any slow effect on the golem and heals 1 point of damage for every 3 points of damage the attack would otherwise deal. If the amount of healing would cause the golem to exceed its full normal hit points, it gains any excess as temporary hit points. A flesh golem gets no saving throw against attacks that deal electricity damage.
The question was do magical attacks of the elements listed bypass the immunity even if they allow Spell resistance?
My current thoughts are that either the attacks have to come from an enchanted weapon or come from a spell that does not allow SR.
The player wants all Cold, Fire, and electircal damage dealing spells to work on the Flesh Golem, SR or not.
Anyone have any thoughts on this?
Yes those spells still work. Every golem has exceptions listed to the magic immunity rule.
I'm currently DM'ing for a group and a question was asked about FLesh golems and their Immunity to magic trait.
A flesh golem is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance. In addition, certain spells and effects function differently against the creature, as noted below.
A magical attack that deals cold or fire damage slows a flesh golem (as the slow spell) for 2d6 rounds (no save).
A magical attack that deals electricity damage breaks any slow effect on the golem and heals 1 point of damage for every 3 points of damage the attack would otherwise deal. If the amount of healing would cause the golem to exceed its full normal hit points, it gains any excess as temporary hit points. A flesh golem gets no saving throw against attacks that deal electricity damage.The question was do magical attacks of the elements listed bypass the immunity even if they allow Spell resistance?
My current thoughts are that either the attacks have to come from an enchanted weapon or come from a spell that does not allow SR.
The player wants all Cold, Fire, and electircal damage dealing spells to work on the Flesh Golem, SR or not.
Anyone have any thoughts on this?
I have to disagree with wraithstrike on this, the listed effect only occur when you have successfully bypassed the "Immunity" of the subject creature only spells that allow no spell resistance and do the listed energy type would be subject to the special effects. Other effects of a supernatural nature such as a dragons breath or energy damage from a weapon would immediately come under the listed effects. The special energy entries do not state they remove or bypass the initial effect of "Immunity".
It states in "Addition to" not "Exception to"
My Thoughts.
Immunity to Magic (Ex) A flesh golem is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance. In addition, certain spells and effects function differently against the creature, as noted below.
• A magical attack that deals cold or fire damage slows a flesh golem (as the slow spell) for 2d6 rounds (no save).
• A magical attack that deals electricity damage breaks any slow effect on the golem and heals 1 point of damage for every 3 points of damage the attack would otherwise deal. If the amount of healing would cause the golem to exceed its full normal hit points, it gains any excess as temporary hit points. A flesh golem gets no saving throw against attacks that deal electricity damage.
Magic immunity pretty much shuts down SR based spells. Then you get the exceptions which are different depending on the monster.
Immunity to Magic (Ex) A flesh golem is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance. In addition, certain spells and effects function differently against the creature, as noted below.
• A magical attack that deals cold or fire damage slows a flesh golem (as the slow spell) for 2d6 rounds (no save).
• A magical attack that deals electricity damage breaks any slow effect on the golem and heals 1 point of damage for every 3 points of damage the attack would otherwise deal. If the amount of healing would cause the golem to exceed its full normal hit points, it gains any excess as temporary hit points. A flesh golem gets no saving throw against attacks that deal electricity damage.
Magic immunity pretty much shuts down SR based spells. Then you get the exceptions which are different depending on the monster.
I understand the argument but until the write up read like.
Immunity to Magic (Ex) A flesh golem is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance. In addition, certain spells and effects bypass the golems immunity and function differently against the creature,
my opinion remains unchanged.
|
Thanks for the advice guys. I understand the argument from both sides, but to me it still seems kinda vague.
I think I'm going to rule it that if the Spell allows SR, the golem will still be immune to the effect of the spell, except as noted in the exceptions entry under 'Immunity to magic'. All non-SR applicable spells and effects do their normal thing AND apply the effects under the exceptions entry.
So if a Flesh golem it targeted with a Scorching Ray, and hits, the golem does not take any damage(Due to his immunity) but still however becomes slowed for 2d6 rounds.
If a character strikes a Flesh Golem with a frost weapon, the Golem takes the cold damage, (Since its a magical effect that doesn't allow SR) AND becomes slow. Since the attack is magical.
My player seemed content with that ruling. I think I'll stick with it until something gets wonky later on... And knowing him he's probably already thinking up ways to take advantage of it. :)
|
Immunity to Magic (Ex) A flesh golem is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance. In addition, certain spells and effects function differently against the creature, as noted below.
• A magical attack that deals cold or fire damage slows a flesh golem (as the slow spell) for 2d6 rounds (no save).
• A magical attack that deals electricity damage breaks any slow effect on the golem and heals 1 point of damage for every 3 points of damage the attack would otherwise deal. If the amount of healing would cause the golem to exceed its full normal hit points, it gains any excess as temporary hit points. A flesh golem gets no saving throw against attacks that deal electricity damage.
Immunity to Magic (Ex) An ice golem is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance, with the exception of spells and spell-like abilities that have the Fire descriptor, which affect it normally. In addition, certain spells and effects function differently against the creature, as noted below.
• A magical attack that deals electricity damage slows an ice golem (as the slow spell) for 2d6 rounds, with no saving throw.
• A magical attack that deals cold damage breaks any slow effect on the golem and heals 1 point of damage for every 3 points of damage the attack would otherwise deal. If the amount of healing would cause the golem to exceed its full normal hit points, it gains any excess as temporary hit points. An ice golem gets no saving throw against cold effects.
Notice the difference in text.
The flesh golem is immune to any spell that has a SR.The ice golem is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance, with the exception of spells and spell-like abilities that have the Fire descriptor, which affect it normally.
They are from the same bestiary, so if the flesh golem spell immunity had a hole against some kind of attack it would have been spelled out, as it was spelled out for the ice golem.
Myself and DR don't agree. In DR's example I see fire as effecting it normally without any secondary effects.
For the flesh golem by my interpretation any spell doing electricity damage heals the golems and 1/3 of the damage it would normally do even if it has SR.
DR's opinion, if I am not misreading, him would make it so that the an electricity based spell with SR would not do anything to the golem, good or bad.
|
The wording of the Ice Golem allows for all of the fire spell's effects (that can affect a construct) to work, so a Burning Spell Scorching Ray would deal damage and deal some damage again at the start of the golem's next turn.
The wording of the Flesh Golem does not allow such things, so a Shocking Grasp has only the effect of healing it. A Burning Spell Scorching Ray will only slow the golem 2d6 rounds, with no additional damage the following round. A Disintegrate is completely ignored.
I was going to use a Thundering Shocking Grasp in my example but it allows a Fort save, which (as I mentioned) a construct is already unaffected by unless the effect you are creating can also affect an object. I haven't read all the rules for status conditions on objects, but I'm pretty confident that they are immune to being deafened.
I have to disagree with wraithstrike on this, the listed effect only occur when you have successfully bypassed the "Immunity" of the subject creature only spells that allow no spell resistance and do the listed energy type would be subject to the special effects.
This would cause the Clay Golem to make no sense.
A clay golem is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance.
A disintegrate spell slows the golem (as the slow spell) for 1d6 rounds and deals 1d12 points of damage (no save).
Disintegrate allows spell resistance.
If the immunity is not bypassed by the differently functioning spells section, then there is no way for a clay golem to ever be slowed by a disintegrate spell.
So it's reasonable to assume that for all the golems, the differently functioning spells section bypasses blanket immunity. This means casting Lightning Bolt (SR Yes) on a Flesh Golem will break slow and heal it, even though the Flesh Golem is normally immune to any spell that allows SR.
I think people might be arguing the same argument from two directions. If I'm wrong, please correct me.
A flesh golem is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance. In addition, certain spells and effects function differently against the creature, as noted below.
A magical attack that deals cold or fire damage slows a flesh golem (as the slow spell) for 2d6 rounds (no save).
A magical attack that deals electricity damage breaks any slow effect on the golem and heals 1 point of damage for every 3 points of damage the attack would otherwise deal. If the amount of healing would cause the golem to exceed its full normal hit points, it gains any excess as temporary hit points. A flesh golem gets no saving throw against attacks that deal electricity damage.
What this means to me is twofold:
1) Any spell that allows spell resistance does not have its normal effect. The golem is immune to it.2) Any spell which would normally deal cold or fire damage triggers the 2d6 rounds of slow.
In other words, only the fact that the spell usually deals fire or cold damage matters - the spell itself is negated by the immunity and the special effect triggers.
The only two other options are that spells which allow spell resistance do not trigger the special effect or that spells which trigger the special effect also have their normal effects in addition. The first would make those effects almost impossible to trigger, because most spells that do damage allow spell resist. The second would make spell immunity much less useful, since any well-prepared party could just ignore it altogether (and fire is the easiest element to have multiple spells of).