Okay, I just hit level 15, I have Greater Alchemical Simulacrum and Cooperative Crafting. I make two Simulacrum with the crafting feats that supplement my abilities to craft an item.
For those who think that Alchemists can't get crafting feats because they don't have a caster level: [spoiler]I've got Master Craftsman too, so I can make a 7th level simulacrum with the ability to help me craft if I make them specifically for Wondrous Items or Arms and Armor, both of which I also have.[\spoiler]
Since the text of the feat says you can assist another character, I assume that you can. I also believe that it holds true if more than one assists. Otherwise it would have specified a number of persons able to assist.
Now when it says that you can double the amount of gold pieces worth of items that you can craft in a day, I also imagine that it increases by multiples the same way that weapon damage does. For example, doubling a double equals a triple, not a quadruple. So me and my two Simulacrums can make 6000 gp worth of items in a day if we all help and take the -5 penalty for rushing. Since circumstance bonuses do not stack, we would only get the +2 for crafting cooperatively, and any additional helpers would not increase that bonus. Seven helpers would let me make 14000 gp per day worth of items, but I would only get an effective -3 to my roll.
From what I understand, I have this down according to the rules and it is an acceptable RAW. Although there might be something I have missed. If you disagree and have an equally valid interpretation of the rules, I would like to read it.
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Just a note, I am convinced that the intention of the alchemist is that they can craft.
Sources:
- SKR's comments alluding to it and more importantly not saying it doesn't make sense
- JJ's, the original designer, comments (that's two links)
- serpents skull's player's guide
- that Carrion Crown module with an Spoiler:alchemist golemcrafter
So you probably don't need Master Craftsman, by RAI.
Thanks Cheapy, but I just put that up there for two reasons. One, when I got to the appropriate levels, someone had convinced me that the opposite was true, and so I took the feat, and my GM doesn't allow rebuilds. Two, I didn't want to make this thread a repeat of all that information but rather would focus on my postulation.
I do appreciate the succinctness of your post though and will favorite it for further reference.
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Hmm. I would like to see FAQ/Errata on that. I hadn't read any of SKR or JJ's comments before, and by reading the book, I was convinced that they couldn't craft. The book specifically says the alchemist doesn't cast spells, and doesn't have a caster level.
As my next character will probably be an alchemist, I'd be happy to have a real caster level, but I would want an official word as to whether that's true or not. Interesting links either way, Cheapy.
Right, I'd like a more official clarification one way or another.
But on to the question. Here are the rules on multiplying in pathfinder:
Multiplying: When you are asked to apply more than one multiplier to a roll, the multipliers are not multiplied by one another. Instead, you combine them into a single multiplier, with each extra multiple adding 1 less than its value to the first multiple. For example, if you are asked to apply a ×2 multiplier twice, the result would be ×3, not ×4.
So it looks like you were right about it.
You are using a dirty, nasty spell that should never have existed.
I'm referring to Simulacrum.
That thing is so broken, even munchkins would be embarrassed to use it.
It fit my character concept, and in addition I only use it to create copies of my own character at half my level rounded down using feats and extracts I already know. Leadership is far more munchkiny than the way I am using Simulacrum, especially since I sunk 2 feats on it.
So anyway, concerning my actual question, perhaps you could assume that I took leadership instead and got much more useful help. Say I had a leadership score of 21 and got 5 people following me that have cooperative crafting and craft wondrous item. (out of the eight who are high enough level to do so, for a one feat tax.) How would the crafting rules work then?
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Hmm. I would like to see FAQ/Errata on that. I hadn't read any of SKR or JJ's comments before, and by reading the book, I was convinced that they couldn't craft. The book specifically says the alchemist doesn't cast spells, and doesn't have a caster level.
As my next character will probably be an alchemist, I'd be happy to have a real caster level, but I would want an official word as to whether that's true or not. Interesting links either way, Cheapy.
The book does say that they do not have a "caster level", but at the same time says this:
Although the alchemist doesn't actually cast spells, he does have a formulae list that determines what extracts he can create. An alchemist can utilize spell-trigger items if the spell appears on his formuale list, but not spell-completion items (unless he uses Use Magic Device to do so). An extract is “cast” by drinking it, as if imbibing a potion—the effects of an extract exactly duplicate the spell upon which its formula is based, save that the spell always affects only the drinking alchemist. An alchemist can draw and drink an extract as a standard action. The alchemist uses his level as the caster level to determine any effect based on caster level.
So, for item creation feats, would he not, per that statement, use his alchemist levels as caster levels to qualify?
Hmm. I would like to see FAQ/Errata on that. I hadn't read any of SKR or JJ's comments before, and by reading the book, I was convinced that they couldn't craft. The book specifically says the alchemist doesn't cast spells, and doesn't have a caster level.
As my next character will probably be an alchemist, I'd be happy to have a real caster level, but I would want an official word as to whether that's true or not. Interesting links either way, Cheapy.
The book does say that they do not have a "caster level", but at the same time says this:
Although the alchemist doesn't actually cast spells, he does have a formulae list that determines what extracts he can create. An alchemist can utilize spell-trigger items if the spell appears on his formuale list, but not spell-completion items (unless he uses Use Magic Device to do so). An extract is “cast” by drinking it, as if imbibing a potion—the effects of an extract exactly duplicate the spell upon which its formula is based, save that the spell always affects only the drinking alchemist. An alchemist can draw and drink an extract as a standard action. The alchemist uses his level as the caster level to determine any effect based on caster level.So, for item creation feats, would he not, per that statement, use his alchemist levels as caster levels to qualify?
No, item creation feats are no "effects", thus you don't fulfill their caster level requirement to take them in the first place with alchemist.
Say I had a leadership score of 21 and got 5 people following me that have cooperative crafting and craft wondrous item. (out of the eight who are high enough level to do so, for a one feat tax.) How would the crafting rules work then?
I am using this now. Portable holes for all!
But yeah, your interpretation is sensible. Especially since
When you are asked to apply more than one multiplier to a roll, the multipliers are not multiplied by one another. Instead, you combine them into a single multiplier, with each extra multiple adding 1 less than its value to the first multiple. For example, if you are asked to apply a ×2 multiplier twice, the result would be ×3, not ×4.
And I would assume this applies to multipliers for things other than rolls as well, since those things don't get specifically covered anywhere.