Okay, I have no idea how this class is supposed to work, but I got curious about building an Inquisitor of Norgorber who'd probably have the Deception Sub-Domain from Advanced Player Guide and the Infiltrator archetype from Ultimate Magic as well as some fitting traits.
So, my questions:
1. What stats should I focus on?
2. Which spells should I take?
3. Feat recommendations?
4. Is there an Inquisitor optimization guide that could answer these questions?
Thanks in advance to everyone. Unless I can build a good Inquisitor (stat-wise, at least), I'll just run this character as a Cleric of Norgorber instead, hopefully with enough of an Intelligence score to place a few skill points here and there. (The groups I am in usually roll stats instead of using point-buy, so it might not be too much of a problem)
Inquisitor is a fighting class first; face, scout and caster secondary. First question: What's your weapon of choice?
I assume I'd have a Shortsword (favored weapon of Norgorber) which is poisoned (one Norgorber trait makes my character immune to one poison, and that'd be the poison he'd use) along with a longbow with poisoned arrows for ranged combat. Don't know if the choices are good, though. I'm also still arguing whether the character should be a Human or a Half-Elf. In the former case, a bonus feat is always useful. And in the latter case, I'd probably replace Adaptability with Integrated or Ancestral Arms, since both kinda fit the character concept while also giving me some pretty sweet bonuses.
...is the Inquisitor an MAD* class?
* = Multiple attribute dependent
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You should probably check out Jadeite's Guide to the Inquisitor for some good advice.
As for the MAD part, you should probably focus on either Str (for melee) or Dex (for archery) as your primary stat, and Wis and Con as secondary stats.
Inquisitors aren't especially MAD unless you're trying to really do it all, particularly if you take a domain or other character option that lets you sub in Wis for other stats for skills you're interested in. (Although it sounds like you'd rather have deception.) You want a positive Con modifier so you don't die, enough Wis to cast your spells (more doesn't hurt, since you have a few class abilities that run off of Wis, but you don't need to go crazy here; you can get by fine running mostly buffs and no-save spells, meaning that beating DCs with your spells isn't necessarily important. You don't get nearly enough spells/day to make that a primary combat strategy, so it's more important to make your normal standard action - attacking someone - effective.) Once that's in line, you just need enough strength (or dex/str if you're an archer) to make your attacks effective. Inquisitor is built to succeed on things like intimidate sense motive, monster knowledge, and tracking checks even if you don't have a giant abiltiy score bonus in those areas. (If you do go infitrator, you get bluff and diplomacy instead of all of those things. Infiltrator is for the most part not a very good archetype mechanically, but if you want to play an evil inquisitor, it might be important.) While inquisitors get benefits that help them keep pace with full-BAB classes (well, with a hypothetical full-BAB class that didn't get extra hit bonuses on top, which they all do), you still need a decent attack stat score, just because attacking is your primary combat action.
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Personally, for Norgorber, were I you, I'd focus on Dex, with Wis secondary, maybe a little Int and Con. Leave Chr and Str at 10. Grab Weapon Finesse, Piranha Strike, Deadly Aim, an Agile Weapon, and play the Switch Hitter role Rangers usually favor. It fits the flavor and should be fairly effective (though your damage will be a little low till you get that Agile Weapon).
If going with this, you can also focus on all the Rogue-type skills, like Bluff, Disguise, and Stealth, and do basically everything out-of-combat a Rogue does except disabling traps. You should probably mostly use spells for self-enhancement of various sorts, though some healing spells can't hurt as well.
Apparently I'd need to go for a high Dex score, just to make this character a Two-Weapon fighter (not optimal, but still possible thanks to the possible bonus feat from being Human) and that would also help with ranged attacks as well as being thematically fitting for the sneaky bastard. Having to replace the Intimidate bonuses with Bluff and Diplomacy also fits thematically, so picking the archetype isn't a problem either.
Thanks again, everyone.
or a Half-Elf. And in the latter case, I'd probably replace Adaptability with Integrated or Ancestral Arms, since both kinda fit the character concept while also giving me some pretty sweet bonuses.
Don't ever take Integrated, it's really, really s~@#. +1 to 3 specific skills vs. +3 to 1 skill of your choice. Knowledge: Local is meh, Disguise is rarely tested and costs 900 gp for +10. And skill focus doubles at level 10; the level 10 effect of Integrated is, you totally forget where that piddly bonus is from.
If you want to be the face, use your class features to add +Wis to Diplomacy/Bluff once or twice.
Don't ever take Integrated, it's really, really s***. +1 to 3 specific skills vs. +3 to 1 skill of your choice. Knowledge: Local is meh, Disguise is rarely tested and costs 900 gp for +10. And skill focus doubles at level 10; the level 10 effect of Integrated is, you totally forget where that piddly bonus is from.
If you want to be the face, use your class features to add +Wis to Diplomacy/Bluff once or twice.
So if I go Half-Elf, it's probably Skill Focus on a Knowledge skill or then Ancestral Arms then. I'm focusing on what fits the character concept in that case.
Personally, for Norgorber, were I you, I'd focus on Dex, with Wis secondary, maybe a little Int and Con. Leave Chr and Str at 10. Grab Weapon Finesse, Piranha Strike, Deadly Aim, an Agile Weapon, and play the Switch Hitter role Rangers usually favor. It fits the flavor and should be fairly effective (though your damage will be a little low till you get that Agile Weapon).
If going with this, you can also focus on all the Rogue-type skills, like Bluff, Disguise, and Stealth, and do basically everything out-of-combat a Rogue does except disabling traps. You should probably mostly use spells for self-enhancement of various sorts, though some healing spells can't hurt as well.
Oh, that actually sounds pretty awesome, and I forgot about Switch Hitting completely. I'll keep this in mind when I get the chance to play this character. Then again, if I roll well, I'd probably still want to put a bit to Charisma just because I imagined this guy managing to be quite the talker even when not using all the Inquisitor abilities.
Okay, I have no idea how this class is supposed to work, but I got curious about building an Inquisitor of Norgorber who'd probably have the Deception Sub-Domain from Advanced Player Guide and the Infiltrator archetype from Ultimate Magic as well as some fitting traits.
So, my questions:
1. What stats should I focus on?
2. Which spells should I take?
3. Feat recommendations?
4. Is there an Inquisitor optimization guide that could answer these questions?
Thanks in advance to everyone. Unless I can build a good Inquisitor (stat-wise, at least), I'll just run this character as a Cleric of Norgorber instead, hopefully with enough of an Intelligence score to place a few skill points here and there. (The groups I am in usually roll stats instead of using point-buy, so it might not be too much of a problem)
1.
Str>Dex>Con=Wis2.
What level are you?
3.
Depends on the build.
I would strongly suggest you take a two handed weapon instead of those two weapons. Why?
Really simple: For casting you need a free hand and this means THWs rock!!!!
Also THW take the least feats and are cheaper and in the end better than TWF (Focused Strike...)
So the choice is rather hard here with Norgorber. He has a sh1tty Short Sword :/
We have 3 ways to go:
1: Reach Weapons are good for casting types because you do not have to make a 5ft step not to take AoOs or if the enemy has 10ft reach you can 5ft step and provoke no AoOs.
Here I would go with the good old Spear
2: Normal Primitive Weapons aren't really that good when it comes to two handed weapons. But we can always take the classy morning star for B&P damage and wield it two handed
3: You either take a heritage weapon or a weapon proficiency or dip another class. Now if you want reach go Ranseur if you don't want it either go Greatsword or Falcatta (wield it two-handed).
Feat choices here obviously are:
Weapon Focus
Power Attack
Focused Strike
4.
If you want to be a real rogue surrogat I would suggest you try to dip 1 level into ranger (trapper) or rogue (1-2 levels).
This gives you Disable Device as class skill and you can disarm magical traps.
Ranger gives you good weapon choices (see above...) and a full BAB for one dip level. Plus a Favored Enemy that might or might not come in handy. Depends on the campaign I guess.
Rogue gives you a bit of flanking damage as well as more class skills (UMD...). If you take it two levels it also gives you Evasion (now you feel really like a Rogue) and a Rogue Talent (Trap Spotter or Fast Stealth...)
@Alienfreak
1. You sure it isn't Dex=Str>Con=Wis for this one?
2. Most likely will start at level 1. If not, then level 3.
3. I'm not proficient with any good two-handed weapons, and they don't really fit the concept. Falcata sounds fine, though.
4. I did consider dipping to Rogue for Disable Device, but I wasn't sure if any class dips were worth losing the caster levels.
@Alienfreak
1. You sure it isn't Dex=Str>Con=Wis for this one?
2. Most likely will start at level 1. If not, then level 3.
3. I'm not proficient with any good two-handed weapons, and they don't really fit the concept. Falcata sounds fine, though.
4. I did consider dipping to Rogue for Disable Device, but I wasn't sure if any class dips were worth losing the caster levels.
1. Depends on what you wanna do. If you want to be a viable Melee then you need all the Melee Power you can get and that means STRENGTH!
2. Depends on the other classes. If you have no other Cleric or so Bless is pretty good. Otherwise I would say the Litany Spells are rather good (because they are swift actions) and things that buff yourself like Divine Favor...
3. If you not like "real" THW then Falcatta or Longsword is surely the way to go. Falcatta if you take it via feat/heritage weapon or Longsword if you take it via Ranger.
Be sure to have a Shield with you if you need a little extra AC.
4. I think one level of Ranger is worth it here. You get a full bab, weapon proficiencies, trapfinding and fav enemy (depends on campaign if it is useful).
If you do not want to have Trapfinding (as in disarming magical traps) then I wouldn't take it.
5. For Races I would say Human, Half-Elf (Ancient Weaponry) or Half-Orc.
Human has the Feat (but Half-Elf will be as good here) but has no sight modi which is really bad for sneakies. Half-Elf has Low Light Vision which is okay unless you run around in unlit caves or dungeons in which any light source will give you away. Half-Orc does not have this problem but has nothing else you would really want.
For Humans or Half-Elf you can later take Eyes of the Owl/Night for low light or darkvision. Half-Elf/Orc would later have both, though.
With your God and if you do not want to dip I would go Half-Elf with a Falcatta. If you want to dip I would go Half-Orc or Human with a Longsword.
6. Other Feats you might want include CWI and CMA&A. Nothing beats Crafting Feats in Pathfinder. Perfect equipment or saving money on the go without having to dedicated craft? Yes please.
Okay, so I have the option of going for Shortsword and Weapon Finesse (and Pirahna Strike), or then go for Longsword and some more focus on Power Attack and such.
...I think the only thing that would make the difference now is what I end up rolling when I do get to play this character. It's also quite likely this character will be Human. Anyway, thanks for all the tips folks. I'll see how it goes, given that while this character idea is Neutral Evil, he's not that much a nasty person.
Okay, so I have the option of going for Shortsword and Weapon Finesse (and Pirahna Strike), or then go for Longsword and some more focus on Power Attack and such.
...I think the only thing that would make the difference now is what I end up rolling when I do get to play this character. It's also quite likely this character will be Human. Anyway, thanks for all the tips folks. I'll see how it goes, given that while this character idea is Neutral Evil, he's not that much a nasty person.
As Human you could still take Heritage Weapon (Falcatta) as a Trait or take the Feat. Or do you want to dip?
Does it allow for an Exotic Weapon to be taken, that trait?
Does it allow for an Exotic Weapon to be taken, that trait?
Yes. Its 18gp. But you need to use THAT VERY WEAPON all the time. So you will need CMA&A. And have someone cast Masterwork Transformation on it.
But do not do this if you have a moronic DM that tends to steal Bonded Items, Spellbooks and so on all the time. He will do the same to your heritage weapon.
That sounds needlessly complex. Then again, if I never tell him of that restriction, he wouldn't think about stealing it in the first place. Kinda like how keeping a mediocre AC causes most DMs to sub-consciously target you more often than the guy with massively high AC and a reach weapon.
That sounds needlessly complex. Then again, if I never tell him of that restriction, he wouldn't think about stealing it in the first place. Kinda like how keeping a mediocre AC causes most DMs to sub-consciously target you more often than the guy with massively high AC and a reach weapon.
CMA&A is the best that can ever happen to a fighting type.
No more +1 Longsword of Fail and Despair finding (matching your Feats) while having that cool +3 Scimitar of Win in your pocket which you just can't really use because you don't have the feats on it.
You just craft what you need.
True, creating one's own magic items is pretty useful. And now I wonder if taking Craft Wand for my Sorcerer in an on-going Council of Thieves game was a bad idea. The lack of money has really limited the creation of magic items for the group as a whole...
( Also, I'm considering replacing the Inquisitor's Deception sub-domain with the Heresy inquisition )
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My tank dwarven Inquisitor doesn't do to much damage until he has his judgments, bane, and is flanking then the damage sky rockets (mix and match as needed). Until then he has high defences provokes AoO and helps flank, he also has utility spells and healing. A great party member. Primary weapon is the dwarven war axe and he took the travel domain.
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There are a lot of gods with strange favored weapons, like the lance, bladed scarf, and musket. You should put this into consideration. Getting a domain that gives you channel will open up channel smite and guided hand. With those feats you can use wisdom for attack rolls, and decrease MAD even more so.
The thing is, my Inquisitor will worship Norgorber, that's already a given.
I don't think any of his domains will grant channeling to an Inquisitor, though.
...I'd need the DM's approval, and I think he'd tell me that Norgorber isn't a very watery deity in any regard. I could give it a shot, though.
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Oh, that actually sounds pretty awesome, and I forgot about Switch Hitting completely. I'll keep this in mind when I get the chance to play this character. Then again, if I roll well, I'd probably still want to put a bit to Charisma just because I imagined this guy managing to be quite the talker even when not using all the Inquisitor abilities.
For reference: With Infiltrator, and Cha 10, you effectively have Cha equal to your wisdom for Bluff and Diplomacy all day every day. That really ought to be sufficient.
And contrary to what others are saying, I don't think you need Str to be a viable damage dealer. By level 6 with a +1 Agile Short Sword (available, if expensive), Dex 18 (reasonable for this build), Piranha Strike, and Str 10, plus your free Teamwork Feats as Outflank and Precise Strike you can do (with no buffing, Bane, or Judgements) +11 to hit for 1d6+9+1d6. Now, with Bane, Divine Favor, and Judgement, you can make that +17 to hit for 1d6+13+3d6 or +14 to hit for 1d6+16+3d6. With other buff spells on top of that it gets nasty.
And that's one-handed, so you can get a buckler, eventually lifting your AC into the stratosphere.
Is that 'optimal' damage? Probably not, but it's enough to be useful and significant, and lets you focus on the Rogue-like aspects of Norgorber, do the switch-hitting thing, and have a really ridiculous AC while doing it.
True, creating one's own magic items is pretty useful. And now I wonder if taking Craft Wand for my Sorcerer in an on-going Council of Thieves game was a bad idea. The lack of money has really limited the creation of magic items for the group as a whole...
( Also, I'm considering replacing the Inquisitor's Deception sub-domain with the Heresy inquisition )
How can you have too little money for crafting? You craft for exactly the amount you sell for. If you have too little money to craft you have too little loot at all for your level. With and without the feat :)