So I recently started GMing for some friends of mine, all who have played quite a bit before. The issue I am having is that I tried to follow the "Yes, and" rule with my players, but now there is a large discrepancy between their power.
For example I have a level 4 Half-Elf Rogue/Beastmaster(2/2). I allowed him to have a pet wolf and 2 knives as weapons. Between his feats and weapon bonuses he and his pet can do serious damage.
On the other end of the spectrum I have a level 5 Serpentfolk Necromancer. He on the otherhand cannot do much damage and consistently has lower attack and damage roles.
Have I done something wrong? Is there a way I can fix the discrepancy or am I out of luck?
P.S- the Other characters are a level 4 Dwarf Paladin/Oracle(3/1), and a level 4 Human Fighter(Gladiator Archetype). Those two are pretty balanced.
Any advice would be helpful Thanks!
Uhm, your necromancer shouldn't be keeping up with your rogue anyway; he is specialized in spells not combat. Also, your rogue is multiclassing and using knives as weapons... I don't see too much of a problem here... Does your necromancer not have any good spells or what?
Yeah what spells is the necromancer using maybe allow him to build a better spellbook. Wizards aren't really designed to be good at doing damage they are good at casting spells.
Uhm, your necromancer shouldn't be keeping up with your rogue anyway; he is specialized in spells not combat. Also, your rogue is multiclassing and using knives as weapons... I don't see too much of a problem here... Does your necromancer not have any good spells or what?
Well my main problem is how to create encounters that are challenging for both of them. If I scale it up for the rogue, my necromancer will be up a creek, but if I scale it down the rogue one-hits everything. As to his spells, he has some decent ones, and I should give him more credit. He just got to level 5 yesterday and hasn't finished updating his character.
Serpentfolk Necromancer?! That's a 5 HD monster with a lot of special abilities from Bestiary 2 in case you're not aware. As a 5th level necromancer wizard on top of it, he should be schooling any foes that wouldn't annihilate the rest of the group...
The two-weapon character shouldn't be hitting particularly hard per-hit - a foe with stoneskin should ignore his attacks to give you an idea. I recommend a character sheet audit on the first two.
I think you are experiencing a bit of the power curve in regards to the lower levels. At lower levels melee do better damage and shine more than casters, mid levels they are about equal, and at high levels the casters shine. The other thing is that the rogue player may be min/maxing with a greater knowledge of the game than the necromancer who may not even know what spells should be in his arsenal. I'd keep going and see how it plays out as they level up.
As far as to challenge them a bit and even things out in some encounters, perhaps throw some things at them that have DR to piercing weapons (the knives) and are weak against magic. In those fights the rogue would do hardly any damage and the necromancer would shine. I'd probably be tossing some mixtures of undead at them which the necromancer may be able to take control over or hurt easier and they have DR to the rogue's weapons as an example.
You haven't done anything wrong. Damage/to-hit isn't really a necromancer's forte; they are probably best dishing out status effects (like fear, negative levels, paralysis, etc) and creating/controlling undead meat shields.
as long as everyone is having fun, you should be good to go. Remember, everyone includes you; if you are finding a particular player or build is ruining your fun, have a chat with the player.
In terms of mechanical solutions: if teh rogue has some sexy magical gear, don't drop anything custom to him for a while; the gear will drop in potency as the party levels up.
Throw in a monster or two (not often, but maybe a bit more) that can't be sneak attacked (like elementals). should drop his damage a bit.
:)
For example I have a level 4 Half-Elf Rogue/Beastmaster(2/2). I allowed him to have a pet wolf and 2 knives as weapons. Between his feats and weapon bonuses he and his pet can do serious damage.
A TWF rogue is fearsome in the flanking position, however, you need to remember:
1) getting into a flanking position is not always easy, and usually has a chance of provoking AoO.2) his animal companion will be weak with only two levels of ranger (beast master), enemies are perfectly entitled to attack it and it will take him time to get a new one. Actually, reading my APG, a 2nd level Beast Master does not HAVE an animal companion - unless it got errata'd, he doesn't get one until he hits level 4 of ranger.
end of the spectrum I have a level 5 Serpentfolk Necromancer. He on the otherhand cannot do much damage and consistently has lower attack and damage roles.
Yes, that's natural. What he should be doing is controlling the battlefield, summoning allies (or cannon fodder), disrupting foes etc. Post up his spell list and we can show you what he should be preparing and using.
Have I done something wrong? Is there a way I can fix the discrepancy or am I out of luck?
I think the problem is that you or he may be confusing CLASS levels (levels in a given class) with CHARACTER levels (total levels of the character). All class abilities are determined by levels in that class ONLY. So your rogue/beastmaster should not have an animal companion, and should have only +1d6 sneak attack.
God help you if that Serpentfolk Wizard with an extra level ever figures out what he's doing. He's the one who is overpowered, and by a huge margin.
Your group as a whole seems to lack the most basic understanding of the game.
Now, my purpose is not being smug, but that's the simple truth.
There are two things that you can do: the first is playing and have fun with your story, regardless of mechanics. The second is learning how to play the game gradually.
If you choose the first option you don't need any more advice: go play and enjoy it!
If you want to learn how to play, read the book and start with very simple things. No custom races (if your friend want to play a serpentfolk, just use the statistics of a human, or elf or whatever, and say that he is a serpentfolk. Using special races will mess up the system if you don't know what you are doing). No multiclassing (you are doing it wrong now. just keep it simple) and no archetypes (unless they are really clear to you). Avoid classes with combat pets (especially summoners, a lot of people make mistakes with those and come up with truly overpowered builds). Make sure you read every single rules about what you are going to do: do you want to use a monster that grapples? Make sure you read about grapple and don't use it if you are not sure you know how it works. Want to use ethereal monsters? Read it in advance. Want to charge? Read it in advance.
Also make sure every player read carefully what he need to know about his class and about action it routinely performs.
It would be great if you could get at least a player with solid knowledge of the game to play with you: if not these boards can help you greatly.
So I recently started GMing for some friends of mine, all who have played quite a bit before. The issue I am having is that I tried to follow the "Yes, and" rule with my players, but now there is a large discrepancy between their power.
For example I have a level 4 Half-Elf Rogue/Beastmaster(2/2). I allowed him to have a pet wolf and 2 knives as weapons. Between his feats and weapon bonuses he and his pet can do serious damage.
On the other end of the spectrum I have a level 5 Serpentfolk Necromancer. He on the otherhand cannot do much damage and consistently has lower attack and damage roles.Have I done something wrong? Is there a way I can fix the discrepancy or am I out of luck?
P.S- the Other characters are a level 4 Dwarf Paladin/Oracle(3/1), and a level 4 Human Fighter(Gladiator Archetype). Those two are pretty balanced.
Any advice would be helpful Thanks!
With the rogue/beast master -- as Dabbler noted, he should not have an animal companion until Ranger level 4 (NOT character level 4). Make sure that as a 4th level character he still has the abilities of a 2nd level rogue and a 2nd level ranger respectively (which will be sneak attack, evasion, 1 rogue talent, favored enemy, ranger tracking, and ranger combat style). Go over his character sheet with a fine comb and make sure he's got everything built right because a) that he has an animal companion at all shows something is seriously wrong, and b) sounds like maybe there's some other problems if he's really outshining everyone else.
Say his wolf has to go off while she's in heat or something and she'll come back later (after he actually gains his 4th ranger level).
Also -- when he DOES legally get his wolf, one important thing is---if it makes sense for the enemy to do so, don't be afraid to attack it. It shouldn't be a first target or a constant target---but if the wolf is adding a huge threat to a fight, an intelligent opponent will notice that and try to remove the threat. That's the flip side of having an animal companion--they can really help, but they are also allies who can be vulnerable. This isn't to screw the player over but think carefully before he invites his wolf into melee with him (especially since the wolf will be -5 his character level (-3 his ranger level + -2 for the 2 rogue levels he has) and WILL become vulnerable as he levels.
With the serpentfolk necromancer, particularly if he's frustrated, I'd ask the player if he would just be willing to build a new character. That creature was not intended for player use (the only ones that really are are the ones in the core rules--at least until the Advanced Race Guide comes out) and he's either going to be too weak or too powerful. I'd suggest he build a core race sorcerer with the serpentine bloodline, and he can take whatever necromancy spells he likes.
My general advice to new GMs is run core rules only and then add splat material when you're more experienced. That's worked for me very well, personally -- it ensures I know the basics and can then feel confident adding additional material later. It's not about saying "yes" or "no"--it's about saying, "this is what I am capable of as a GM." Now, you've already allowed all this stuff so I know it's a bit of a moot point, but maybe something to bear in mind if you start another campaign.
As for how to challenge a powerful party.... generally speaking, just try to be creative with encounter design. Pay attention to terrain -- is there cover or concealment around, is there weather that makes things more difficult? Add the advanced template to creatures that seem too weak, or a class level.
Vary up your fights as well. If the rogue's getting his sneak attack off all the time, throw in an incorporeal creature or an ooze or plant creature -- that'll let someone else get to shine (like the paladin or fighter). Don't throw in ONLY creatures that are immune to sneak attack, just shake it up a little, once in awhile, to encourage players to try new tactics.
Alright so I have a few questions for you. First of all how is your Serpentfolk PC higher level then the rest of your party with that race. Pathfinder doest provide a level adjustment but leaves it up the the DM to provide penalties. He should be lower level then the rest of the party, but if anything not higher. How did he get higher level then the rest of the party? Was he soloing side missions without the party?
As for who should be wrecking your game. The Necromancer with that race should be outshining the rest of the party. It will become more and more apparent as your PC's gain levels. Here is where you party falls on the power scale from best to worst if all are equally optimized.
5 Serpentfolk Necromancer.
4 Human Fighter(Gladiator Archetype)
4 Dwarf Paladin/Oracle(3/1)
4 Half-Elf Rogue/Beastmaster(2/2
Your multiclass rogue will only be giving you issues if the two of you misunderstand the rules. He has no pet and he only has 1d6 SA. His BAB is a +3. If he has Weapon focus your looking at +2/+2 before you add Str to hit or Dex (if he has weapon finess). Even assuming he has a 20 Dex with Weapon focus your looking at +7/+7 to hit. Thats not that great. Most mobs he will have a 50/50 shot at best to hit. Now if he flanks a mob his chances get much better but thats good tatics and shouldn't be punished.
Your necromancer on the other hand should be wrecking things if he is using the correct spells. Let me give you a hint. If he is rolling dice for damage he is probably doing it wrong. He shouldnt be doing HP damage. He should be controlling the combat.
Im guessing your Necromancer doesnt have the right spells selected and is trying to out dps a DPS class. Unless you stack the deck in his favor he will loose that fight and he should.
This is of course just my 2 cents. Look over the rogue and make sure you havent missed something. Then point your necromancer too "Treantmonk's Guide to Pathfinder Wizards: Being a God. "
Its the defacto wizard guide on how to get the best results from playing a Wizard.
After that sit back and let them get a few more levels under there belt before you do anything drastic.