No, but the acrobatics skill does."the Grease spell initially doesn't seem too good, unless you are aware that characters attempting to move through it are flat-footed." - The Drunken Dragon
The Grease spell doesn't say that people moving in it become flat-footed.
Which goes back to the system mastery aspect -- you got to read that book front to back and then cross reference.
I like the srd for this (and d20pfsrd), whenever I am looking at a spell and get a hyperlink for a part of it I'll open the hyperlink in a new tab and see what all the condition (or skill... whatever) has to do with the situation.
Any other ideas for becoming a better player?
There is no substitute for experience, although there are a number of guides along that vein if you're of the mind.
"Don't be a jerk" is probably Rule Zero as a player. The rest will come with time. Above all else, HAVE FUN!!
One other thing to keep in mind: a lot depends on the game and the sort of situations your GM puts you up against.
As an example, let's take a fighter. If you're always running up against single melee monsters, work on things that take down single foes (big damage, attacks that inflict status effects to cripple him, that sort of thing).
If you're always running up against crowds of mooks, then Cleave and Great Cleave and Whirlwind Attack become very handy feats to have. (So does Combat Reflexes, which allows multiple attacks of opportunity).
If you're always running up against Evil Wizards (like Conan), maybe you don't need to inflict lots of damage, but you DO need to take Iron Will and otherwise boost your will save, lest you become the wizard's puppet.
One probably shouldn't metagame, but... ask your GM what the campaign is likely to be about; most are amenable to telling you at least some starting advice. Keep track of where you fail a lot, and when you go up a level, work on that. Are you always failing Knowledge checks? Put some skill points there. Are you always failing saves? Boost that save. Are you constantly running out of hit points? Boost your AC, take Toughness, adjust your tactics so you don't always run headlong into crossfire.
Cleric: Does nothing....
Cleric: THIS SUCKS, TAKE DAMAGE GUYS!
Party: Hell no, THAT's why I wear armor!
That is how it was the last time a player brought a healbot to my table. Me: You will be bored.
Him: I am ok just healing.Me: We don't get hurt a lot. You will get to heal us after combat though.
Him: Everybody gets hurt.
Me: OK if you say so.
The game in session(sometimes even after combat):
Him: You need a channel or heal?
The other players:Nope
Rinse,repeat
Note: By dedicated healer/healbot I mean someone who builds the entire character primary around healing.I do think some people are missing that point a little bit. If your party needs a "healbot" it should be a GM PC, coz it would bore the hell out of a player :P
"Hi guys, I'm your new party member Jack. I'm great at healing, like seriously great. I'm so great last time anyone died within a mile of me they auto-resurrected. Then there was this one time me and a buddy were swallowed whole and I healed for three days straight before they came to rescue us! Did I mention the time we had a healing contest and I overhealed my volunteer and he turned into a beam of pure positive energy?"
"What? Weapons? Pffft, I'm a pacifist. Did I mention I heal?"
First round: fighter fights defensively against BBEG and minions, none of them hit.
Cleric: Does nothing.
Second round: rogue aids fighter giving bonus to AC, no damage
Cleric: Does nothing.
...
Cleric: THIS SUCKS, TAKE DAMAGE GUYS!
Party: Hell no, THAT's why I wear armor!
Funny writing :-D
However, this would not be the regular case in our games. Were it my game, you quickly find that armor won't help you against maneuvers, touch spells, traps and more. I would let this work once or twice, but PCs should not feel untouchable.
I had skill focus perception to avoid traps. Any caster trying to touch us would die. You would have to really push things well above our APL to make us need a healer on a consistent basis, and even thing we would just all find a way to be able to heal, and nobody would take the healbot job.
That one player is/was used to playing in group where people just charge into combat, and don't work as a team.
An optimized is only needed in the case of bad tactics or bad builds.
Note: By dedicated healer/healbot I mean someone who builds the entire character primary around healing. That is different from someone who can heal such as a battle cleric, oracle, druid, or witch.I disagree. I had a GM state at the start of a campaign "This is going to be a tough campaign, bring your A-Game." and one of our players missed this, so he died at least once a session before it disintegrated. I honestly don't think that if he'd built an optimized character, he'd have survived anyway (this guy had abysmal luck, at one point dying to something that had only a 3% chance of occurring: getting a critical from a golem, it rolling high enough to cause massive damage, and then failing his save), but who knows?
I had another GM who couldn't make fights work properly, he just didn't understand the CR system, and while we still won our fights, someone died nearly every combat.
There are times when you have to build an optimized character or you end up building a lot of characters.
When I post I don't include corner cases.
When I post I don't include corner cases.
Which is generally bad optimization anyway. Building for the corner means getting crushed by the building.
Besides a lot of what is being described is not a "healbot" in the sense of "all I do is heal" but a "support caster" which is "all I do is make you awesome". That is a perfectly valid choice.
To get on with the stream of advice let's pick some from my experience.
1. Build for self sufficiency but play for team work.
Being self sufficient is really helpful. Every action that you can take to expand your capabilities helps you a great deal when and if you find yourself cut off from the rest of the group or working with a group that might not have your survival in mind.
This being said even self sufficient characters need to be team players, as all will typically have the means to help another character in some substantial way. This is why I'm loathe to build fighting bards without inspire courage, or battle clerics without utilizing mass buffs, or alchemists without the infusions discovery. These things matter to the group as a whole and should be considered in addition to any personal gains.
2. When talking damage static numbers are best.
Why? Critical hits. Each time you crit only two numbers are multiplied, your weapon damage, and static numbers applied to the dice. This is why a feat like Weapon Specialization is better than say Belier's Bite. Belier's bite can do more damage but will never get multiplied on a crit or any other effect that doubles damage. However weapon specialization will deal consistent damage while simultaneously being able to be doubled or even tripled on a crit.
When I post I don't include corner cases.An optimized is only needed in the case of bad tactics or bad builds.
Note: By dedicated healer/healbot I mean someone who builds the entire character primary around healing. That is different from someone who can heal such as a battle cleric, oracle, druid, or witch.I disagree. I had a GM state at the start of a campaign "This is going to be a tough campaign, bring your A-Game." and one of our players missed this, so he died at least once a session before it disintegrated. I honestly don't think that if he'd built an optimized character, he'd have survived anyway (this guy had abysmal luck, at one point dying to something that had only a 3% chance of occurring: getting a critical from a golem, it rolling high enough to cause massive damage, and then failing his save), but who knows?
I had another GM who couldn't make fights work properly, he just didn't understand the CR system, and while we still won our fights, someone died nearly every combat.
There are times when you have to build an optimized character or you end up building a lot of characters.
I'm just saying the use of the word "usually" is merited, as absolutes are few, and far between.
I'm just saying the use of the word "usually" is merited, as absolutes are few, and far between.When I post I don't include corner cases.An optimized is only needed in the case of bad tactics or bad builds.
Note: By dedicated healer/healbot I mean someone who builds the entire character primary around healing. That is different from someone who can heal such as a battle cleric, oracle, druid, or witch.I disagree. I had a GM state at the start of a campaign "This is going to be a tough campaign, bring your A-Game." and one of our players missed this, so he died at least once a session before it disintegrated. I honestly don't think that if he'd built an optimized character, he'd have survived anyway (this guy had abysmal luck, at one point dying to something that had only a 3% chance of occurring: getting a critical from a golem, it rolling high enough to cause massive damage, and then failing his save), but who knows?
I had another GM who couldn't make fights work properly, he just didn't understand the CR system, and while we still won our fights, someone died nearly every combat.
There are times when you have to build an optimized character or you end up building a lot of characters.
Yeah, but you can assume a person is going to include every possible situation so we normally post with regard to the norm, not the exception.
As an example if the GM is running a game that is 3+APL for almost every encounter then you can't use the same ideas that work in a normal game.
Yeah, but you can assume a person is going to include every possible situation so we normally post with regard to the norm, not the exception.
As an example if the GM is running a game that is 3+APL for almost every encounter then you can't use the same ideas that work in a normal game.
Large parties (6+ PCs) also tend to necessitate needing a dedicated healer. Since the APL is higher you're often fighting higher CR monsters that will have higher +hit on their attacks, do more damage, and have higher save DCs on their abilities. Also, since the party is bigger you take less of a penalty on action economy for having a healer, which further makes the role more useful.
So in the beginning healers are important but once we can work together they are not and should just be buffers?
Yes. Or debuffers.
My party for example relies only on a Paladin and lay on hands and on some UMD cure lesser wounds. The only death cases were while fighting a pit fiend several CR steps above us. The pit fiend still died because the halfling ninja slew him (thx to ranged sneak attack/invisibility/evasion+high reflex save).
As far as i remember there are some excel sheets or other means to do some math on DPR. I think this is very good for benchmark reasons. Not to get the highest and become a DPR champion, but to see what you can do and what not. It should also function with your spell stuff, saves and AC.
If anyone got something like that, i would be interested too.
It's very simple. The faster you end fights, the less resources you have to expend. As always there are exceptions, but this is why healing is for after combat, barring emergencies.
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Do you have a way of getting players to work with me so we can do better together, usually most people go after their own target unless theirs a big guy we want to take out first. I have tried before to get my allies to coordinate but they have not. As a druid tank should me and my companion focus on one target and move only after it's down?Back when we first started playing we just did the "Enemies come at you in straight line, resolve biggest muscles." That was fine right up to the point where we were a little sick of the "I have big muscles and can take a beating, rawr" and the GM said "Ok guys, how about I do intelligent combat?" So we started the game and BAM, we needed teamwork to get through the situations.
TL;DR - what wraithstrike said
Our group is different to others and YMMV, but we never focus a target unless it's a BBEG, we've normally got two people capable of in-your-face combat and they'll try get as close to as many enemies as possible to draw fire / create attacks of opportunity. Our off-sider rogue/ninja/TWF fighter/druid sets up the flanking etc.
Oh, you may want to check the Acrobatics skill for the "Tumble" usage - allows you to pass through opponents squares without taking AoO's for a fairly low DC. This may let you set up the flanking opportunities.
(As always, bear in mind other players tend to like their characters and won't generally walk into danger for you. Take the initiative and roleplay the tough guy - if they are cowards show them up.)
What's your group makeup? The people on this forum can point out the max benefits for each class working with other classes.
what tumble skill..... did paizo give us tumble back in addition to acrobatics. because i have seen the dc to use acrobatics to not provoke aos and it is equal to each opponents cmd. this is not a low dc and any character with significant physical stats or a deflection bonus. if you want to avoid aos you need to use spring attack and look at your path.
on a side note the best way i have found to get people to work together is by playing a mage. offering buffs to people is a gr3eat way to get them to do what you want them too. also by simply debuffing an enemy all your dpr toons will rush that weakened enemy in the hopes of easy hits and it invokes a feeding frenzy. you stand back and cast a few spells and all of a sudden its like each spell carries a bullseye that gets pinned to the back of whoever fails a save.also rewarding the team players with additional buffs for protecting one another and working together has always worked for me. by the end of the session they all treat you like santa and they are much more willing to play nicely together.
Yeah; healers are only good with poor players....
Wow, that is one of the most condescending remarks I have ever read on these boards. I wonder if there is any building where that high horse you are sitting on actually fits in.
So in the beginning healers are important but once we can work together they are not and should just be buffers?
Not quite. Emergency healing is always required, and depending on what your DM throws at you or how badly your players roll (always failing saves, failing even at easy climb checks with the consequence of falling into a pit of snakes etc.) it may even require a dedicated healer. Sometimes you are under time pressure and cannot wait to use the charges of wands in order (50 charges mean at least 50 rounds and thus 5 minutes game time, for example).
I have yet to see a game where PCs never took significant damage (often warranting emergency healing) without massive metagaming. Generally avoiding or at least reducing taking damage is definitely the better option, though :-)
It's very simple. The faster you end fights, the less resources you have to expend. As always there are exceptions, but this is why healing is for after combat, barring emergencies.
Accurately described with one exception to this: If the task is to draw out the fight, e.g. to keep enemy troops distracted from the *real* assault taking place, e.g. saboteurs sneaking in, elite soldiers (not you at this point) needing a diversion to take out the enemy command hierarchy etc.
But that is not the "typical" adventure :-)
So in the beginning healers are important but once we can work together they are not and should just be buffers?
In the beginning, curing is paramount, because most characters die in 1-3 hits.
Once everyone has leveled up to the point of having high HP or reliable defenses, curing falls under 2 categories:
- 1 - Emergency super-heals, such as the Mass Cure spells or the Heal spell. These happen when the group or an individual is hit with a ... "surprise"
- 2 - Curing up out of combat, which often comes in the form of wands of CLW (great hp/gp investment), or burning up spell slots before preparing more.
That said, healers will find that manipulating the battle with buffs or battlefield control becomes far more effective in the mid-to-high levels, as it (plus party defenses) prevents alot of the significant damage from taking place.
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a thing to be said with healers in advanced games. depending on the situation healers can be more or less useful. but is completely situation based.
my dm thinks that fighting in the forest is just the best possible thing you can do. so we have constant 5 foot sight and half speed for several combats. in these situations you are going to need a healer because the monsters just continuously move in and hit you before you can counter. on the other hand at times we face off against a large force over an open field and our casters erect a series of walls traps and movement impairing devices to bring the enemy into a place where they can be easily killed at range leaving only the bbeg to actually make it to us.
there will always be a need for a healer. because as well all know "crit happens" you always feel like a stud when you critically strike with your long sword. and it is a very humbling experience when that huge monster critically strikes you with his lance from the back of his horse for "ZOMG DMG" i have watched players fall to some ridiculous stuff.
a post id like to address from thalin saying that healers are only good with poor players. i believe his meaning that the less experience your players have the greater the likelihood you will need a healer. this is definitely true. (i do however think that the way you put it was unnecessary). some players have not learned that charging has inherent risk. thinking more that they should be able to kill anything in one round then finding out there were wrong. then they are subject to a round of pounding that only a skilled medic can fix.
one thing that any experienced healer will tell you is that you rarely prepare a healing spell (except for the few if any that cannot be spontaneously cast or that go in your domain slot (cleric)) but being able to spontaneously be capable of healing is a boon to a group. i build my clerics to go to war. even medics get guns.
im currently playing a battle oracle, i have a healing spell at every level and plan on casting some of them as my party ends up getting hurt alot largely in part to my dms construction of ridiculous combat scenarios. but i have my focus. im a tripper and a disarmer. i let the druid and wizard handle walls and battle field control. i know my rounds are better spent buffing my allies and myself. i warsight just so that i can have a better chance of being the first one to go in order. i lead the fighter barbarian types into battle. tripping and disarming foes as i go buffed by my own ridiculous spells leaving enemies prone in my wake letting the beaters clean up after me. my damage isnt insanely high but i hit nearly every time and when i trip someone everyone else gets a free attack against them. my dm never knows what to expect because my spontaneous list of spells has been crafted over years of playing and understanding what can come up. when i forgo my trips to ready an action to counter spell his bbeg it adds a dynamic to the fight that no fighter could ever do.
if your looking for tips on optimization the best advice i can give you:
Read the forums,
dont build on floppy premises that bend rules,
build characters in your free time try to be creative.
if you have the time read the source books cover to cover and actually try to understand the material.
never underestimate a cleric with a hammer. or a wizard with a grin.
I'm just saying the use of the word "usually" is merited, as absolutes are few, and far between.When I post I don't include corner cases.An optimized is only needed in the case of bad tactics or bad builds.
Note: By dedicated healer/healbot I mean someone who builds the entire character primary around healing. That is different from someone who can heal such as a battle cleric, oracle, druid, or witch.I disagree. I had a GM state at the start of a campaign "This is going to be a tough campaign, bring your A-Game." and one of our players missed this, so he died at least once a session before it disintegrated. I honestly don't think that if he'd built an optimized character, he'd have survived anyway (this guy had abysmal luck, at one point dying to something that had only a 3% chance of occurring: getting a critical from a golem, it rolling high enough to cause massive damage, and then failing his save), but who knows?
I had another GM who couldn't make fights work properly, he just didn't understand the CR system, and while we still won our fights, someone died nearly every combat.
There are times when you have to build an optimized character or you end up building a lot of characters.
Yeah, but you can assume a person is going to include every possible situation so we normally post with regard to the norm, not the exception.
As an example if the GM is running a game that is 3+APL for almost every encounter then you can't use the same ideas that work in a normal game.
That "can" was supposed to be "can't".
Nobody is saying that being able to heal in combat isn't a beneficial thing for the party to have the capability of doing. They're really not. What people are saying isn't important - or generally effective - is characters planning to use most of their standard actions healing. That's what people usually mean when they say "healbot". A fairly common mistake amongst new players is the assumption that the cleric psuedoslot in a party is there for healing (it's there in part for healing, of course), and thus the way to optimize a character for that pseudoslot is to make yourself the best healer you can, even at the expense of other combat capabilities.
Regardless of level, I would be pretty scared for a party that didn't have some way to heal in combat, but I'd also be unimpressed by a character that didn't have the chops to do much else besides healing. A battle oracle who knows some healing spells but is built as a buffing trip machine is doing it right. (From an optimization standpoint.) That's not the sort of character people are referring to when they say "healbots aren't particularly effective in Pathfinder".
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As a GM i had a healbot cleric with the freedom or liberty domain in a group once, combined with a barbarian and a psion. It was cruel. The cleric didnt hit anything, but he destroyed the gameplay effectively. I had to change the whole adventure module because of him and his stupid freedom of movement aura and healing. The barbarian didnt care about anything because the cleric just healed any damage, he could concentrate on pure mayhem, what he did of course very well, also buffed by cleric a little and a lot by the psion. I had to triple the amount of foes to let them feel something. Also the cleric player got really bored because he didnt get much playtime and started roleplaying his characters sausage addiction a little too much. I abused it to make him sickened and nauseated a lot.
Resume for me: I would never ever allow such a character at one of my tables again. It´s boring for the player. It takes out many potentially thrilling moments, especially the aura. So it gets kind of boring for the other players too. And its not so good for the GM, because you always have to think about situations. Ok you do that anyway, but it really gets different. And if there are only a handfull of conditions left at level 7 or 8 that can touch your players, it gets redundant a lot. What is boring too.
As far as i remember there are some excel sheets or other means to do some math on DPR. I think this is very good for benchmark reasons. Not to get the highest and become a DPR champion, but to see what you can do and what not. It should also function with your spell stuff, saves and AC.
If anyone got something like that, i would be interested too.
Could someone point me in a direction where I could learn about using excel for determining power?
Mostly it's the dice, I roll terribly as in 75% of the time under ten. My next character will be primarily a hit and run person since I plan on a relatively fast speed with pounce so I'll be able to be mobile and get in pounces.
Alternately, you can play a character that is awesome at making others better, or one which causes other things to roll dice to save. Some sort of caster.
Mostly it's the dice, I roll terribly as in 75% of the time under ten. My next character will be primarily a hit and run person since I plan on a relatively fast speed with pounce so I'll be able to be mobile and get in pounces.Alternately, you can play a character that is awesome at making others better, or one which causes other things to roll dice to save. Some sort of caster.
Could work.
If your dice rolls are so bad, buy other dice ;)
Helped a lot for me.
If your dice rolls are so bad, buy other dice ;)
Helped a lot for me.
Definitely, one of my friends rolled incredibly bad on a regular basis, for years he's said he didn't need new dice, then a few weeks back I bought him a set of dice, and now he rolls really well.
It's very simple. The faster you end fights, the less resources you have to expend. As always there are exceptions, but this is why healing is for after combat, barring emergencies.Accurately described with one exception to this: If the task is to draw out the fight, e.g. to keep enemy troops distracted from the *real* assault taking place, e.g. saboteurs sneaking in, elite soldiers (not you at this point) needing a diversion to take out the enemy command hierarchy etc.
But that is not the "typical" adventure :-)
That'd be one of them "exceptions" I was referring to.....but even then there are better methods for "stall fighting" than healing. Buffing for defense/miss chance/mobility/combat maneuvers (disarm, trip, sunder are all better than healing in terms of wasting opponents' time with less risk to yourself).
Honestly, unless your DM likes to throw encounters at you where the encounter is EXPLICITLY designed to make you take very small amounts of damage consistently over a long amount of time with no ability to really end the encounter....then healing is not usually the best option.
Emergency healing is great, however, many builds can do this, and it's not needed often enough (in tactically sound groups) to make a character dedicated to it worthwhile. That said, if your DM is absolutely brutal you may need more emergency healing, but any DM that brutal is usually doing more damage than a devoted healer can keep up with, thus making another character who can help end fights sooner more important than someone who allows these brutal baddies to take more turns.
I am not very good at min maxing or optimizing and it's bothersome for me because I want my characters to survive more often can people tell me how to optimize/min max please?
Some people found this old thread useful but it's far from all encompassing. I'd suggest reading some of the Treantmonk guides because they can get you into the mindset of learning the rules, strategy, and weighing options; even if you're not into the guides themselves.
thanks Asheil
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Honestly, the best thing you can do is play more and learn from your mistakes. Read the Core Rule Book often. I've been gaming since 1979 and I still read the rule books to the games I run and even the ones I don't. I make sure I read part of one of the rule books every day. It may be just looking over the magic section or a few spells I don't normally use, but I read it. This might be TMI, but I always have one of the books in my bathroom. Right now it's the Advanced Players Guide and a small stack of Dragon Magazines.
The other thing you need to do is figure out why you are losing so many characters. All the advice in the world won't help if you don't know what the actual problem is. You said that you roll poorly. To be fair, I'm willing to bet that if you plotted all your rolls you would find that they are pretty close to average. If not, then your dice are flawed and that is a simple $5 fix. If you really think that you roll poorly, regardless of dice, then I suggest increasing your static bonuses as someone else suggested. Adding +1d6 won't help you if you typically roll 1s. Might as well go for that +2. It's something you can account for.
When I used to play video games, way back when, I had my Nintendo hooked up to the VCR and I would record my games. I would watch the points I was having a hard time with and see if I could make any changes. Recording your gaming sessions is probably not feasible, but what you can do is write down every time you died and why. Look that over for a pattern. Also look to see what you could have done differently. You mention that you failed a climb check. What could you have done differently? Could you have taken off your armor? Could you have had someone cast Spider Climb? Could you have used pitons? Could you have used levitate? Could someone, or even multiple someones, have used Aid Another? There are a ton of options.
Also, read more threads on these boards. The more controversial threads may provide insight that you want. Caster/non-caster threads are often full of heated arguments but within those arguments is a ton of useful information. If you are having a hard time with non-casters there are often plenty of people throwing around ideas on how they would deal with things. If it's casters you are having a hard time with, you will see a ton of ideas on how casters would deal with things.
That's my advice anyway. Others have given some great advice as well. Spalding always has great advice. Don't do what we say though. Take our advice and see how it applies to your group. Use and modify it to make it work for you. Discard the stuff that doesn't work. Embrace the stuff that does.
And always ask questions.
what tumble skill..... did paizo give us tumble back in addition to acrobatics. because i have seen the dc to use acrobatics to not provoke aos and it is equal to each opponents cmd. this is not a low dc and any character with significant physical stats or a deflection bonus. if you want to avoid aos you need to use spring attack and look at...
Used the wrong word for it. Actually the DC is only equal to the one opponents CMD + 5 to move through his square at half speed while not encumbered. My latest ninja build has +22 Acrobatics at level 8 - pretty much auto-succeeds. I also had a fighter who did this with +17 acrobatics. When you need mobility it's a great skill, but it could be viewed as a little restrictive - clerics wouldn't take it, but then they also can be front line in-your-face damage types. Ninjas...we're allergic to pain, it hurts us.
As a GM i had a healbot cleric with the freedom or liberty domain in a group once, combined with a barbarian and a psion. It was cruel. The cleric didnt hit anything, but he destroyed the gameplay effectively. I had to change the whole adventure module because of him and his stupid freedom of movement aura and healing. The barbarian didnt care about anything because the cleric just healed any damage, he could concentrate on pure mayhem, what he did of course very well, also buffed by cleric a little and a lot by the psion. I had to triple the amount of foes to let them feel something. Also the cleric player got really bored because he didnt get much playtime and started roleplaying his characters sausage addiction a little too much. I abused it to make him sickened and nauseated a lot.
Resume for me: I would never ever allow such a character at one of my tables again. It´s boring for the player. It takes out many potentially thrilling moments, especially the aura. So it gets kind of boring for the other players too. And its not so good for the GM, because you always have to think about situations. Ok you do that anyway, but it really gets different. And if there are only a handfull of conditions left at level 7 or 8 that can touch your players, it gets redundant a lot. What is boring too.
Freedom's Call (Su): At 8th level, you can emit a 30-foot aura of freedom for a number of rounds per day equal to your cleric level. Allies within this aura are not affected by the confused, grappled, frightened, panicked, paralyzed, pinned, or shaken conditions. This aura only suppresses these effects, and they return once a creature leaves the aura or when the aura ends, if applicable. These rounds do not need to be consecutive.
Why is that an issue? Spread the bad guys out. If the party insist on sticking together AoE's work well.
Ah well today i would do it better probably, but in that specific adventure there were a lot of cases where 8 rounds of that were more than sufficient to take the threat out of threatening situations like rescuing someone tied on a pole over a fire or at a tree or someone grappled.
Then i had to take care of that and everyday drain the cleric first.
Out of curiosity was it kingmaker? The one combat a day issues made that AP frustrating for many GM's.
Also don't forget that Freedom's Call also requires a standard action to use, which is impossible if you nauseate the cleric.
Nauseating the cleric was the solution i found out after some time. I used his disturbing sausage eating roleplay. After spending some time in the wilderness he accidently got completely wet, so the sausages got bad, but he didn´t know. Anytime he ate a sausage then, he became nauseated soon after for some play minutes if failing a FORT save. The more sausages the higher the saves. It was fun because he really didnt make the conncetion, so i allowed him a WIS check to find out at some point. He still ate sausages the next session, because it was his clerics iconic feature and he had forgotten.
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I've had plenty of combats vs evo-heavy casters pop in and lay a smackdown. But what good does channel-healing in response do? They deal d6 per level, you heal d6 every other level. At best you are healing about half of the damage up. And they are usualy higher level, to boot. The better contribution would be to lock down the Evo-caster so your melees can crush them, or so they can't evo-cast.
It's just action economy; dedicated healers feel that is their duty in life; and far too often pass or doing something meaningless (shoot a crossbow?). Summon something to grapple that guy (clerics can do it as a standard action now), do some lockdown. Any relevant opponent will just outdamage your heal; there will be times healing is the right call (I love to have it "on tap" just in case); but those are few and far between.
And I am fortunate to play with mostly good, coordinated players; and those few who are not as effective we work towards helping without feeling controlling. But again, this is why I say that healers are more powerful for a poorly-run table; it was not condescending per se, but was saying the healbot is a far overused archetype.
On the other hand, it's a decent archetype for newer players; you can rarely mess it up, and the difference between an unoptimized one and an optimized one is almost unnoticeable.
I've had plenty of combats vs evo-heavy casters pop in and lay a smackdown. But what good does channel-healing in response do? They deal d6 per level, you heal d6 every other level. At best you are healing about half of the damage up. And they are usualy higher level, to boot. The better contribution would be to lock down the Evo-caster so your melees can crush them, or so they can't evo-cast.
I've found in practice it's been a bit better than half damage. After all there are saves and energy resistances to take into account, and a shifting target pool.
I would suggest it comes out about 66~75% with channeling against AOE attacks.
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OK, so it is 60% gain; that's still up for them. And if someone is badly downed it may be a decent play. But you don't have to be a dedicated heal-bot to take care of that. I even admitted there are rare occasions combat-healing is the call. You just need to be able to do something else the other 85% of the time.
Some people have talked using excel for figuring out your characters abilities but I don't know how to use it could some one point me in the right direction to learn how to? I have numbers which works pretty much the same way.
dedicated healers feel that is their duty in life; and far too often pass or doing something meaningless.
I think this is why there's disagreement on this issue. Just because someone's a full healer doesn't mean they're going to waste actions when they have nothing to heal. Bad playing != bad role. There also seems to be a contingent posting that thinks that all that's necessary to be a healer is to have CLW on your spell list so you can use a wand of CLW, which is ridiculous.
What those of us in the pro-healer camp are saying is that the ability to emergency heal when necessary - well enough to restore a martial character from near death to near-full health - and perform other types of healing (removal of negative levels, conditions, ability damage and so forth) is very important and the primary role of a full healer. It doesn't mean that when there's no healing to be done that the healer is standing around picking his nose. Every class that can fulfill the roll of a full healer can also buff, debuff, do some damage, and other useful stuff. In fact I'm pretty sure it's impossible to build a character that can do nothing but heal. So like I said above, if the healer is twiddling his thumbs because there's no healing to be done that's poor play on the healer's part, not an indictment against the usefulness of a full healer.
Some people have talked using excel for figuring out your characters abilities but I don't know how to use it could some one point me in the right direction to learn how to? I have numbers which works pretty much the same way.
I suggest using Googledocs. They have a spreadsheet, and a word-like document service/app. I keep all my character records in GoogleDocs, save a local copy to my desktop before each game session (just in case the net is unavailable) and bring my laptop to game. I also get to share my character sheet with the GM.
You can use the spreadsheet to do number crunching and organize stuff, but I find that doing so is time consuming and clunky during game time... so I just do it at work or at home between sessions.