Pair of rogues


Advice


My friend and I are updating a pair of rogues we played in 3.5 for a pathfinder only (20 pt buy) game. Of note: the GM has stated we get full HPs every level, so Toughness and FCB Hit Point aren't AS important.

We'll be 4th level, but I stated out a full build.

Couple of unbreakable items of note
Race must be halfling
There must be at least 1 level of barbarian.

Here's what I'm currently thinking:
Barb (Invulnerable Rager)1/Rogue (Knife Master) 1/Barb 1/Rogue 3/Barb 2/Rogue 12
Str: (16-2)14, Dex: (15+2)17, Con: 14, Int: 12, Wis: 10, Chr: (7+2)9
Traits:
Reactionary, River Rat (+1 damage with daggers)
Feats:
1: Power Attack
3: TWF
4: Weapon finesse (finesse rogue)
5: Double slice
6: Weapon focus [dagger] (weapon training)
7: Imp. Init.
9: Imp TWF
11: Imp. crit (dagger)
13: Outflank
15: Greater TWF
16: TW: rend (bought with Feat talent)
17: Precise strike
19: TW: defense
20: Feint partner (bought with combat trick)

Rage Powers
3: Superstitious
8: Witch hunter

Talents (those not taken as feats)
10: Offensive Defense
12: Underhanded
14: Opportunist
18: Imp. Evasion

As a matched set, are there better options? I tried to find teamwork feats that would compliment the fighting style and maximize our damage output. The 8d8 sneak dice I thought offset the -2dx sneak loss from 4 levels of barbarian, but the added BAB and extra iterative attack (especially against mooks we can crunch like popcorn) made it net zero.

Also, I'm not sure the progression is optimal... feats and classes taken as listed...


you can't take only one lvl of an archytype if you take more lvls in it i.e. rogue and barb. You get you stick with it.


Theos Imarion wrote:
you can't take only one lvl of an archytype if you take more lvls in it i.e. rogue and barb. You get you stick with it.

I realize that - I didn't think I'd need to keep writing the archetypes in the class list...


oh, sorry I didn't realize you were doing it by when you would take lvls. I thought that was just what the end would look like.

The Exchange

Well obviously the bane of all melees will be positioning. You're hooped against flyers. Max HP will help with your staying power but don't underestimate the FC bonus HP. Also you are gonna need AC AC AC and eventually some kind of concealment miss chance to help with your staying power.

Other than that not sure if power attack fits the DW dagger motif. PA scales better with 2 handers, and high % crit weapons, You'd be better off with things like Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility. Remember you are going to be in the dirt face to face with the enemy you NEED staying power.


whats the other guy look like, and what are you trying to achieve? whats the campaign?


st00ji wrote:
whats the other guy look like, and what are you trying to achieve? whats the campaign?

Other than skills, we're twins. So, identical regarding feats and such.

We're basically looking to maximize dpr through synergy.

We're starting book 2 of Carrion Crown (I'm swapping out a zen archer for the rogue).

The rest of the party consists of Paladin (meat shield), Inquisitor (secondary meat shield), Cleric (Guidance spammer /eyeroll) and Abjuration wizard (most useless low level character evar)

The paladin is a pretty decent tank, and is situationally aware, maneuvering into areas allowing others to flank. (We had a ranger/rogue who had benefited from this - and is a big motivator into bringing in a pair of rogues.

As an archer, I was really carrying the group. The ranger was second best dpr, but he's leaving the group. The inquisitor is happy to get into the mix, but is sporting a gauntlet and scorpion whip... not overly optimal for damage. The wizard has only acid splash and disrupt undead for offensive spells - and so far, the only BFC he's used was from a wand of slow he got. That was helpful, but he's purposefully not building for combat and takes no combat spells so he can 'role play' better (he's also 100% devoted to the Stormwind Fallacy.)


I would suggest both of you get the Distracting Attack rogue talent and Sap Master (which requires Sap Adept first) for some great synergy. I'm not too keen on the knifemaster, I prefer the Thug and Rake archetypes. I'd also suggest the Warslinger Halfling racial variant to reload a sling as a free action. May or may not synergize with your melee DPR, but having a ranged weapon you can full attack with on the opening round of combat surely isn't a bad idea. I suppose if dipping bard you could just use a longbow, though...
Note that the sling could be used with Sap Adept/Master if you took the Bludgeoner feat as well (said feat would also allow Sap Master/Adept to apply to a bow if using Blunt Arrows from the APG).

The only teamwork feat I'd recommend is Lookout. It's just a shame you have to be adjacent, surely within 10, 15, etc... ft could've been ok? In any case, Lookout + both of you being stealthy = lots of combats that you start off with a full round action surprise round.

Spoiler:
Distracting Attack (Ex)

Benefit: A rogue with this talent can make sneak attacks with subtle flourishes that disorient and distract her enemy. When she hits a creature with a melee attack that deals sneak attack damage, she can forgo the additional damage to cause the creature to become flat-footed against one target of her choosing until the beginning of her next turn. The rogue cannot designate herself as the creature gaining the benefit of this talent. Creatures with uncanny dodge are immune to distracting attack.

Spoiler:
Sap Master (Combat)

You knock the sense out of foes with a well-timed surprise attack.

Prerequisite: Sneak attack +3d6, Sap Adept.

Benefit: Whenever you use a bludgeoning weapon to deal nonlethal sneak attack damage to a flat-footed opponent, roll your sneak attack dice twice, totaling the results as your nonlethal sneak attack damage for that attack.

Spoiler:
Warslinger

Halflings are experts at the use of the sling. Halflings with this racial trait can reload a sling as a free action. Reloading a sling still requires two hands and provokes attacks of opportunity.

This replaces the sure-footed racial trait.

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