Goblin Squad Member
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I'm actually currious on several parts when it comes to the hideouts.
1. How specific will the information be to trigger an ambush.
I can see a few different possibilities with wildly different impact on how they go.
A. Ambushers get a notice "Movement detected crossing your area would you like to attack.
B. Ambushers get a notice "a party of 4 is passing through your area would you like to attack"
C. Ambushers get notice "A party of 4 is crossing through your area, Jim from faction X, Joe from faction Y, Tom from faction Y, and bob from faction Y.
D. "A party of 4 is crossing the ambush area, here is what they look like (shows preview of passers complete with visible armor etc...)
The more it narrows down the more an ambusher has the ability to pick and chose, currious if this may also be a portion of the setup, or if it will be more unpredictable.
2. Detection: While it is clear that detecting a hideout will be difficult and only possible for people with the skill to do so, how much will someone being ambushed be able to narrow down the location they were ambushed. Will they only know they were ambushed somewhere between point A and B (places where they fast traveled between), or will the ambush kind of give them a ballpark (say a hideouts trigger range is a mile, so once ambushed they have a 1 mile radious of where the hideout may be, and then will immidiately hire someone who specializes in hideout sniffing to assist them in eliminating the hideout.
3. This probably goes into fast travel, but what kind of timeframe would ambushers have to decide whether to kick someone out of fast travel. On an unrelated note it sounds like this partly confirms that fast travel is not going to be instantaneous, (fast travel has many definitions, from teleportation, to moving slightly faster than normal).
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Goblin Squad Member
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1. Information will be more detailed as the Hideout is upgraded, although it's still unclear exactly what those different degrees, and probably will be for quite some time.
2. It's mentioned that the victims will be able to re-enter Fast Travel when the "exit the area", but it's not clear what that area is. If that area is functionally derived from the Threat Radius, then that might help you determine a possible area to search for the Hideout in.
3. The threat radius can be expanded with Hideout upgrades, but it looks like the decision to attack will have to be made while the victims are still inside the threat radius. So yeah, it sounds like it's going to be a function of the speed of the Fast Travel being employed, and the threat radius of the Hideout.
These answers are not intended to discourage anyone else from providing better answers. This is just what I think I picked up from the blog.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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If nothing else, you will know or have a chance to know where you are when you are waylaid. That provides a good starting location to search for the lair.
I would imagine that the interdiction radii and typical response times for interdiction would be documented enough that given a significant number of data points, a player could locate a couple of locations, lines, or arcs where the hideout is most likely located.
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Goblin Squad Member
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This game is shaping up to be a griefers paradise. Losing interest
You have good reason to be concerned. I too share your concern, and that is why I have formed a little...shall we say "organization" to try to help control this problem. Tell all your worries to Uncle Blaeringr :D
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Goblin Squad Member
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This game is shaping up to be a griefers paradise. Losing interest[/url]
While the description of Hideouts makes it clear that PFO will be encouraging players to kill other players for fun and profit, I think that's a long way from making it a griefer's paradise. To me, a griefer's paradise is a place where brand new, just out of the box players are immediately subject to being ganked and corpse-camped. That simply won't happen in PFO.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If you're worried about griefing, then learn to find these hideouts and band together to destroy them. Remember, the more people the bandits attack, then the more people who will be angry enough to want to see them dead, and will probably help you.
But yes, I am also curious as to the exact triggers for hideouts, if only to know how to avoid them. Damn bandits, they ruin everything... grumble grumble. I guess we'll get more details as the game gets further developed.
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Goblin Squad Member
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This game is shaping up to be a griefers paradise. Losing interestWhile the description of Hideouts makes it clear that PFO will be encouraging players to kill other players for fun and profit, I think that's a long way from making it a griefer's paradise. To me, a griefer's paradise is a place where brand new, just out of the box players are immediately subject to being ganked and corpse-camped. That simply won't happen in PFO.
Ugh, I need to Preview my posts more often. Corrected to read like it should have read initially.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Man, just last session man group was ambushed ! Now its going to happen in the MMO ! You GMs are evil!! Thats why I play a class <Ranger, Inquisitor or Rogue> that can detect ambushed and also able to track people. I would also travel a main road where there are patrols. While it seems ganker friendly, theres plenty of tools and techniques you could use to aviod them.
A hide out should have a certain radius and possibility to be found. Information gain should depend on the quality of the hide out. A better hide out provides a better ambush point where you should be able to gather more information before deciding to attack. The longer you stay and more people you attack, the more likely you will be found. So moving spots would be advisable. That or make a stronghold.
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How does a hideout and such interact with those not in fast travel? something to consider. I am out exploring and looking for mats, therefore im not using fast travel except to go to certain places, unless fast travel is just using a vehicle but otherwise like moving normally( can stop anywhere, change direction, stop n go, etc).
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Goblin Squad Member
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How does a hideout and such interact with those not in fast travel? something to consider. I am out exploring and looking for mats, therefore im not using fast travel except to go to certain places, unless fast travel is just using a vehicle but otherwise like moving normally( can stop anywhere, change direction, stop n go, etc).
I asked basically that question here.
Ryan responded here.
Basically, there are some really interesting dynamics at play if Hideouts only allow detection of characters using fast travel, but it's unknown at this time whether or not that will be the case.
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Goblin Squad Member
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How does a hideout and such interact with those not in fast travel? something to consider. I am out exploring and looking for mats, therefore im not using fast travel except to go to certain places, unless fast travel is just using a vehicle but otherwise like moving normally( can stop anywhere, change direction, stop n go, etc).
I'm sure the designers will work over the problem in detail.
My start position would be that fast travel takes the easiest/fastest route between two points, and the points might be limited. Maybe just one per hex, near the center of any future settlement.
Any hideout location would therefore need to observe the general fast-travel route. Sketching it out on a hexagon tile, maybe a single hideout can interdict fast travel across two of the hex sides at most, but only if they used multiple observers. Observation locations wouldn't be on the fast travel lane, but would be near enough distinguish between 6 merchants and 6 soldiers.
A person moving through the area not in fast travel should have a chance of stumbling onto the observers. Likewise, the observer outside the hideout should have a chance of spotting the other person. But you won't really know if the guy standing afk next to the tree is just on a bio-break or if he's already called his 5 friends to gank you. :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Blaeringr, I don't think the same problems that arise from stealthy characters are applicable to hidden structures.
Indeed, considering what we know of hideouts
None of the reasons ryan applied to why stealth dosn't work apply to structures.
* I have magical effects on me that affect you.
* You have magical effects on you that affect me.
* You run in to me and collide (or vice-versa).
* A pet you control can sense me (blindsight, scent, tremorsense, etc.)
It is unlikely that there will be any aoe building focused magical attacks. Hideouts were pretty much described as non-existant if you cannot detect them, so you can't collide, and pets won't have whatever skill is needed to detect a hideout. The inside of a hideout will not exist in real space, it will be underground and non-moving (least not moving while people are observing).
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Goblin Squad Member
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First of all, let's differentiate between griefers and PvPers. Griefers are people who abuse game mechanics to give themselves an unfair advantage against their fellow players. Examples would be the 'grey bones' exploit in Ultima Online that permitted a griefer to attack and kill an NPC bodyguard within a town, whose body looked as though it was a legitimate target for looting by anyone but in fact flagged those people as criminals. The griefer then called for the guards who killed the innocent looter and they were then free to loot their corpse in turn.
Ambush sites are not grief sites. First of all, they have to be placed in such a manner as they intersect a well-travelled highway. This creates a potential issue in that the ambushers may not be able to pick and choose their targets. They might ambush someone and it's an innocent crafter with no backup. On the flip side, it could be a party of hardened adventurers travelling to a dungeon who wipe the floor with the ambushers.
What I suspect might happen here is something similar to what happened in the Pirates/Navy MMO set in the 1800's Caribbean whose name escapes me. The ambushers are in their hideout and they get informed of someone moving through their 'territory'. They elect to ambush them. This picks the ambushers and the travelling party up and deposits them a set distance apart (for argument's sake, let's say a football field apart). At this point, the travelling party have a choice to make; fight or flight. If they fancy their chances against the ambushers, they can make a stand and hopefully kill the ambushers. If they don't, then they high-tail it and hope they are faster than the ambushers.
I don't think that hideouts are going to be a meal ticket for ambushers. I think they're going to have to really work at catching those they ambush to kill them. It does, however, let them canvas a larger area for potential targets.
The upshot? Don't fast travel and then go make yourself a cup of tea. Do that first, then fast travel!
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Goblin Squad Member
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I may have missed this in another thread, but what about hideouts for spying during war? It seems to make good tactical sense to establish a small hideout for both spying on movements of the enemy and as a sally point for attacking enemy patrols. Will you be able to set up a hideout specifically to gather information about movement in an area? Warfare is not all about direct combat. There are opportunities to attack supply lines and in a merchant war you could disrupt trade and affect price with the right information of movement.
