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I would like to hear counter arguments to this idea.
It stops being Pathfinder really, but I was enjoying the Houserules threads and was inspired by this post.
1. Drop BAB altogether
2. Implement the Skills Weapon Training (Melee) and Weapon Training (Ranged) sorted by categories such as Axes, Maces, Bows, Small Swords, Large Swords, etc (would need tuning)
...2a Base Skill cannot exceed level
3. Attack Roll =
...3A d20 + Appropriate skill + STR for melee
...3B d20 + Appropriate skill + DEX for ranged
4. Skill points would need to be adjusted per class of course but would be class driven per level
5. Fighters would receive level/2 bonus to attacks
...5A Rogues would receive the same bonus if the situation qualifies them for Sneak Attack
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(separate thought so casters don't feel left out)
6 or 76 depending on how convoluted it gets:
Spells per level goes away
Wizards get spell points based on 6 (maybe 1d10?)+INT(CON?) per level. These points are spent on either spell points or hit points in any combination equaling die roll + stat. If they want to sacrifice HP for spells let them and vice versa.
Spells cost 1 SP per level not to exceed wiz level /2 ie- Maintains current casting requirements of 5th level wiz for 3rd level spell, etc)
Thoughts? Was just a lazy saturday afternoon idea while painting minis
Why?
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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How would spell attacks be handled then? If they advanced at +1 to hit per level, the power of spells goes up alot. Since many spells use a touch attack, they will hit more often. Chances of rogues hitting also goes up and is potentially unbalancing as martial characters lose the edge they have on dps.
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Must-have skills are redundant (I'd even remove Perception as a skill)
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How would spell attacks be handled then? If they advanced at +1 to hit per level, the power of spells goes up alot. Since many spells use a touch attack, they will hit more often. Chances of rogues hitting also goes up and is potentially unbalancing as martial characters lose the edge they have on dps.
I didn't figure in touch spells. Was just to share an idea another thread spawned. I just wanted to add an alternate way for spells. Ie- fireball is 3 spell points and the caster has to be level 5+ to cast.
We're this an actual rule set you would have to split how touch spells work from how many you get.
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Must-have skills are redundant (I'd even remove Perception as a skill)
100% agree and always have. Perception is a class skill for all in my games and every game I have ever played in.
But then I have swimming con based too.
My argument why is two fold.
You do not use strength to swim the English channel, you use endurance(con)
I could not pass 9th grade until I remained afloat in a pool for 25 minutes (minnesota state mandated at the time in the early 80s and I couldn't lift a potato sack... But I could dog paddle for a half hour easy.
Sorry. I digress.
This looked really familiar, and then I realized it's because it's almost exactly like a "new system idea" I was working out a few years ago. Showed it to some friends. They didn't like it.
It's also a little similar to Chaosium's system.
Also add in skills Casting (Melee) and Casting (Projectiles) maybe, and otherwise keep spells the way they are. Sorcerer's get 1/2 level bonus to casting.
I wouldn't worry too much about separating the weapon training into subgroups, that's just too much clutter.
I think it's a cool idea, deserving of consideration. I'd be curious to see it fleshed out.
If the base skill modifier were low enough, then there could be bonuses to certain skills based on having levels in certain classes, i.e. you get +1 per class level on all melee weapon skill checks if you're a fighter, barbarian, paladin, etc., and a +1 per even class level if you're a rogue, cleric, etc., whatever you want to do.
This could allow you to break up wizards into kinds of casters. Different skills could be associated with different styles of casting, different kinds of spells, again, whatever you want to do.
Would you still get +3 to the attack/weapon skill roll for it being a class skill? Would you then need to adjust how AC is determined? Would there be skill-based defenses (AC, Saving Throws, etc.)? Would you increase the number of skill points per level PC classes get? Would different classes get different weapon class skills? Would light blades (daggers, shortswords, rapiers, scimitars, kukris, etc.) be based off of Dexterity instead of Strength (simulating Weapon Finesse)?
Would you still get +3 to the attack/weapon skill roll for it being a class skill? Would you then need to adjust how AC is determined? Would there be skill-based defenses (AC, Saving Throws, etc.)? Would you increase the number of skill points per level PC classes get? Would different classes get different weapon class skills? Would light blades (daggers, shortswords, rapiers, scimitars, kukris, etc.) be based off of Dexterity instead of Strength (simulating Weapon Finesse)?
Not to mention Skill Focus and the various ways one can increase a skill cheaply (when compared to hit) with magic. To be honest this idea seems pointless because ever character will just max out this skill, no question. Plus, it kills switch hitters who would have to invest more skill points to get the same attack bonus.
Edit: Oh also, you could take 10 on attack rolls with 19 level bards and 11th level Rogues.
I've been working on a complete skill system rewrite where I'm thinking of using combat like a skill (sorry for the shameless plugging: Skills ). Generally all skills work off your character level, but recently I've been looking at applying a similar system to BAB. I'v decided to keep the base progression, because I want to try to balance magic/combat/skills and I don't want it to become "okay, why would you play a fighter again?
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Would you still get +3 to the attack/weapon skill roll for it being a class skill?
No. Our I wouldn't personally.
Would you increase the number of skill points per level PC classes get?
Yes, this would have to be established but only if the idea were to be taken seriously. This was all just a 'hey what would this be like' thought based upon another thread.
Would different classes get different weapon class skills?
Up for discussion.
Would light blades (daggers, shortswords, rapiers, scimitars, kukris, etc.) be based off of Dexterity instead of Strength (simulating Weapon Finesse)?
Up for discussion.
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There are far too many tangents that would need to be explored for this to be used with the current game system.
This would be more for someone who actually wants to be as simple as possible.
1d20 + Long Sword skill (for example) = attack roll. Everything else is where it gets complicated because we all compare to what we know or desire.
One of my new, never played an RPG before players has expressed a few times of his wish where his character sheet should be:
his Ability Scores
his Hit Points
his AC
a simple "Roll this and add this" for attacks. Key word simple.
and that is all.
He tracks his equipment on index cards
I have become used to Pathfinder style and enjoy it, but not all do. I am keeping my mind open to adaptations that would make my players experience more fun. Because that is why we do it.