Shadow Evocation and daylight.

[FuelDrop]

Ok, so here's the situation. your party is attacked in the dark, and so your wizard decides to shed some light on the battlefield. the catch is that he dumped evocation but, not to worry, he has a casting of shadow evocation ready. he casts it, replicating a daylight spell and bathing the area in illusionary light.
so by RAW your attackers (and your party) get a will save to recognise the light as an illusion, and if they succeed there's only a 20% chance of it effecting them.

so, does that mean that anyone who makes the save and is unaffected is still in the dark even if the rest of the combat is bathed in bright light?

[Tom Baumbach]

There's no damage involved in a daylight spell, so ignore the 20% part.

Unless there's some reason to want to be in darkness - light blindness or light sensitivity, perhaps - it makes sense that all targets "voluntarily" fail their saves.

[FuelDrop]

shadow conjuration wrote:

Spells that deal damage have normal effects unless the affected creature succeeds on a Will save. Each disbelieving creature takes only one-fifth (20%) damage from the attack. If the disbelieved attack has a special effect other than damage, that effect is only 20% likely to occur. Regardless of the result of the save to disbelieve, an affected creature is also allowed any save that the spell being simulated allows, but the save DC is set according to shadow conjuration's level (4th) rather than the spell's normal level. In addition, any effect created by shadow conjuration allows spell resistance, even if the spell it is simulating does not. Shadow objects or substances have normal effects except against those who disbelieve them. Against disbelievers, they are 20% likely to work.

say that the targets fail their spellcraft check and don't know to fail their save, or they would be harmed by sunlight. then what happens? is it a 20% of them seeing the light, and 80% chance of them not?

[Corlindale]

The 20% part also applies to non-damaging spells, which have a 20% chance to work.

But yes, since you can always choose to fail your save against a spell, it makes sense for everyone to do that. Believe in the light!

From the magic section of the srd:
"Voluntarily Giving up a Saving Throw

A creature can voluntarily forgo a saving throw and willingly accept a spell's result. Even a character with a special resistance to magic can suppress this quality."

[Tom Baumbach]

FuelDrop wrote:

shadow conjuration wrote:

You should be quoting shadow evocation, since daylight is an evocation spell. Also, shadow evocation says the following:

shadow evocation wrote:

Nondamaging effects have normal effects except against those who disbelieve them.

Lastly, light is not an attack, so ignore the 20%.

[Ravingdork]

Yes, shadow conjuration and shadow evocation have very different wording that one must pay special attention to.

[Cheapy]

How are you going to communicate to your allies that it's an illusion but not have the enemies know that too?

Assuming of course, you do not know what languages they understand.

[Ravingdork]

Message. Telepathic bond. Any number of other spells, effects, and special abilities.

[Cheapy]

You have those up when surprised at night?

[Chobemaster]

Cheapy wrote:

How are you going to communicate to your allies that it's an illusion but not have the enemies know that too?

Assuming of course, you do not know what languages they understand.

for that matter, CAN you communicate "hey, this is about to be an illusion, don't disbelieve it!"

That's like "don't think about a polar bear w/ blue eyes." You just thought of it.

Let's say you are more discreet, and just shout, "hey, don't fight this next spell!" before you cast. Your party members presumably trust you/know the drill and comply. Does it follow that your opponents are so trusting also? If yes, then I'm certainly going to come up with a "fake signal" I can yell that the PC's know to ignore and then all the foes voluntarily fail their saves against stuff they'd wish they hadn't!

[Starglim]

I would probably make an exception for this combination and say that the light produced is one-fifth as strong for non-believers (which, further, means it's one light level lower) even though it's not an attack. This would be real light, not illusion.

[Ravingdork]

Cheapy wrote:

You have those up when surprised at night?

Thanks to permanency I have telepathic bond up all housr of the day and night.

[Alitan]

There's a certain amount of irony in using a shadow spell to produce light...