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Hello,
My players will be fighting some Flesh Golems rather soon and I had a question about their Immunity to Magic that I was hoping someone could shed some light on.
I get that they are immune to spells or spell-like abilities that allow spell resistance. It's the part about magical attacks that deal cold or fire damage that is confusing me.
Does the spell actually have to deal damage to affect the golem? Or would a spell that deals fire or cold damage but allows SR affect the golem? I figure the spell has to actually deal damage but I don't want to cheat my players out of being able to slow the golems.
Any help on this matter would be appreciated. Thank you.
A flesh golem is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance period.
So if the spell allows SR, it doesn't matter which kind of spell or effect it is, because the golem is immune.
If you hit it with a spell or effect that deals cold or fire damage AND doesn't allow SR (there aren't many that qualify), the golem is slowed.
If you hit it with a magical weapon that deals cold or fire damage, the golem is slowed.
In both cases, it should probably be read "in addition to the actual damage".
Now, regarding the tricky part...
In my opinion, it has to actually deal damage to affect the golem.
So... if you face a flesh golem with energy resistance* vs fire and cold, you'd have to overcome that resistance with your damage if you want to slow it.
But with magical weapons, you won't have any problems, because the golem's DR 5/adamantine only reduces the mundane damage of your attacks - energy damage automatically overcomes DR.
(* You probably won't, because even buff spells like energy resistance allow for SR, therefore the golem is immune to them.)
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These are exceptions to the golem's immunity to magic. They were created in order to give spell casters something to do in a battle against an enemy that is immune to most of their spells. Certain golems, like the Clay Golem, specifically mention spells that allow SR. In the case of a Flesh Golem, casting a Fireball would not do any damage to the golems but it would slow it. However, casting any electricity spell would inadvertently heal the golem, regardless of SR.
OldManAlexi has it right here, a fireball would deal no damage to the flesh golem but would slow it. The golem is immune to the normal effects of the spell, since it allows spell resistance, but it has an additional effect that is specific to the golem.
These are exceptions to the golem's immunity to magic. They were created in order to give spell casters something to do in a battle against an enemy that is immune to most of their spells. Certain golems, like the Clay Golem, specifically mention spells that allow SR. In the case of a Flesh Golem, casting a Fireball would not do any damage to the golems but it would slow it. However, casting any electricity spell would inadvertently heal the golem, regardless of SR.OldManAlexi has it right here, a fireball would deal no damage to the flesh golem but would slow it. The golem is immune to the normal effects of the spell, since it allows spell resistance, but it has an additional effect that is specific to the golem.
I also concur. SR does not come into play for the special effects that fire, electricity and cold have on a flesh golem. The golem, however, would not suffer the cold or fire damage from the spell, only the special effect specific to the flesh golem.
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Immunity to Magic (Ex) A flesh golem is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance. In addition, certain spells and effects function differently against the creature, as noted below.
• A magical attack that deals cold or fire damage slows a flesh golem (as the slow spell) for 2d6 rounds (no save).
• A magical attack that deals electricity damage breaks any slow effect on the golem and heals 1 point of damage for every 3 points of damage the attack would otherwise deal. If the amount of healing would cause the golem to exceed its full normal hit points, it gains any excess as temporary hit points. A flesh golem gets no saving throw against attacks that deal electricity damage.
My read on this is that a flesh golem is completely immune to effects that allow SR. So, fireball would have no effect at all. In addition, spells that do not allow SR, but which deal cold, fire, or electrical damage function differently. Cold and fire attacks would only slow a golem if they do damage. Electrical attacks would only heal the golem if it does damage.
I've bolded the phrase In addition both in the quoted rule as well as in my explanation to call it out. Immunity and special effects apply; a magical attack has to bypass the immunity or it never comes into play.
I don't agree Howie. Everyone I know has played it as if a spell does fire, cold, or electricity damage it affect the golem anyway because it is an exception.
3.5 FAQ
The golem description in the Monster Manual says that golems are immune to magic, but the individual golem descriptions say they’re only immune to spells or spell-like abilities that allow spell resistance. Which one is right?
The “immunity to magic” entry in the opening text of the golem entry (page 134 of the Monster Manual) is only a general description of that special quality. Each golem’s specific immunity to magic entry provides the actual rules mechanics for adjudicating that immunity.
For example, a clay golem is immune to fireball (because that spell allows spell resistance), but not to Melf’s acid arrow (because it doesn’t allow spell resistance). It would be immune to disintegrate, except for the special note that follows indicating the effect of a disintegrate spell on a clay golem.
Immunity to Magic (Ex) A clay golem is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance. In addition, certain spells and effects function differently against the creature, as noted below.
• A move earth spell drives the golem back 120 feet and deals 3d12 points of damage to it (no save).
• A disintegrate spell slows the golem (as the slow spell) for 1d6 rounds and deals 1d12 points of damage (no save).
• An earthquake spell cast directly at a clay golem stops it from moving on its next turn and deals 5d10 points of damage (no save).
• Any magical attack against a clay golem that deals acid damage heals 1 point of damage for every 3 points of damage it would otherwise deal. If the amount of healing would cause the golem to exceed its full normal hit points, it gains any excess as temporary hit points. A clay golem gets no saving throw against magical attacks that deal acid damage.
Before the PF isn't 3.5 argument comes up, the wording is the same so the meaning is the same until Paizo's devs step in and rule otherwise.
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I wrote a long reply last night that was eaten by the 'net. I suppose it's now been digested and is buried in the 'net's litter box. But I digress.
Thanks for the FAQ reference. I'm gonna chalk the ambiguity up to a bad job in the rewrite between 3.0 and 3.5. The 3.0 magic immunity for golems is pretty clear: golems are immune to magic except for specific spells that function differently. The version in 3.5 added the SR clause and insufficient rewording to make the situation clear.
I stand corrected, and appreciate it.
so the fleshy: it is vulnerable to glitterdust, acid arrow , flame arrow and such
Yeah.