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So, the Qinggong Monk archetype allows monks to switch out their standard abilities for Qinggong Monk powers that they qualify for. The thing is, the Qinggong Monk monk level requirements rarely match up with the levels of an actual monk ability. It seems like this would lead to strange situations like having to wait until 11th level to gain an 8th level Qinggong Monk power (at which point he also can choose 10th level powers).
However, I've noticed one thing about the archetype's writeup: unless I'm mistaken it doesn't state *when* the monk has to trade his abilities. All it says is "A qinggong monk can select a ki power (see below) for which she qualifies in place of the following monk class abilities".
Theoretically, this means at 8th level a monk could give up the 7th level ability 'wholeness of body' for an 8th level power. If this is the case, suddenly the archetype's strange level requirements make more sense.
Does this seem like the correct interpretation? I've seen people suggest this before, but I've never seen a definitive answer.
it's an archtype you can assume unless stated somewhere that you trade the abilities when you get them.
you usually with a few exceptions if Pf can't suddenly just drop class powers you've already used or learned.
it's an archtype you can assume unless stated somewhere that you trade the abilities when you get them.
you usually with a few exceptions if Pf can't suddenly just drop class powers you've already used or learned.
You're right that you can't usually just drop class abilities. I guess it is a case of which is weirder: losing class abilities, or dealing with a level requirements list that doesn't match the class it was made for.
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A developer stated that he would allow choosing higher level/requirements feats, with the condition that the character cannot use them before reaching said level. A bit like someone training today for something to master tomorrow. By RAW you can't.
RAI you are neutering yourself to train and gain a higher level power by not getting one now, so it may be allowable.
A developer stated that he would allow choosing higher level/requirements feats, with the condition that the character cannot use them before reaching said level. A bit like someone training today for something to master tomorrow. By RAW you can't.
RAI you are neutering yourself to train and gain a higher level power by not getting one now, so it may be allowable.
Ahh, I had been pondering that as an option, but wasn't sure about it since the archetype didn't mention it. If one of the developers is saying it would be alright though, maybe it would work as RAI. It isn't like archetypes always switch out abilities at the same levels anyway.
Thanks, I wasn't able to find anything from a developer on this when I did my searches. Do you happen to have a link to it?
Here is what Maxx is referring to...except he kinda got it wrong.
Right now the intent very so much is that you need to meet the prerequisites, and can't take it early.
Here is what Maxx is referring to...except he kinda got it wrong.
Right now the intent very so much is that you need to meet the prerequisites, and can't take it early.
Ahh, yea, if that is the post he's referring to, then that is kind of different. Bah.
Well, Maxx is referring to the post of SKR's *before* that one.
But SKR went back on that.
Its a bit wonky, and I can totally see some DMs shutting this down, but it doesn't actually say that you can't replace monk powers you gain through the archetype itself. Nor does it say you're limited to trading out an ability a single time.
What this means, is that you should technically be able to "juggle" monk abilities to get the ones you want as you qualify for them. For example:
Say you swapped out High Jump for Barkskin at 5th level. At 7th level, you could then trade Wholeness of Body for another of the 4th or 6th level abilities. Oh look, how about we get High Jump (6th level power) back?
Then at 8th level (or 10th, or wherever the ability is you really want is), you switch out High Jump again for the ability in question. Rinse and repeat as required...
Well, Maxx is referring to the post of SKR's *before* that one.
But SKR went back on that.
Ahh, I think I see what you're talking about.
Hmm, all I know is that something seems off about the archetype. Though, maybe I'm biased because I have a character who thematically should get Dragon's Breath (closest thing to what I have in mind), but the strict interpretation delays the point that I could actually get it at by 3 levels.
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Its a bit wonky, and I can totally see some DMs shutting this down, but it doesn't actually say that you can't replace monk powers you gain through the archetype itself. Nor does it say you're limited to trading out an ability a single time.
What this means, is that you should technically be able to "juggle" monk abilities to get the ones you want as you qualify for them. For example:
Say you swapped out High Jump for Barkskin at 5th level. At 7th level, you could then trade Wholeness of Body for another of the 4th or 6th level abilities. Oh look, how about we get High Jump (6th level power) back?
Then at 8th level (or 10th, or wherever the ability is you really want is), you switch out High Jump again for the ability in question. Rinse and repeat as required...
...that's actually a very good idea, lol. I'll have to see if I can do this without losing High Jump though, because I want to keep that one. Of course, yea a GM could shoot this down. Personally, I wouldn't because they are the same ability after all.
Edit: Now that I think about this though, wouldn't this be pretty much the same thing as just delaying trading one of your lower level abilities?
...that's actually a very good idea, lol. I'll have to see if I can do this without losing High Jump though, because I want to keep that one. Of course, yea a GM could shoot this down. Personally, I wouldn't because they are the same ability after all.Edit: Now that I think about this though, wouldn't this be pretty much the same thing as just delaying trading one of your lower level abilities?
It's the same...and then it really isn't. See, this way, you're actually following archetype convention by trading abilities as soon as you get them. The bonus is that you also get to use an (ostensibly) more powerful ability for a few levels while you wait for what you want. Basically, it lets you be rid of any low(er) level abilities you really don't want for whatever reason, and you still get something in return until you get where you want to be.
As for High Jump specifically, it will work for any standard monk ability that also shows up on the Qinggong list (so, High Jump, Wholeness of Body, Abundant Step, Diamond Body, Diamond Soul, etc). Unfortunately Slow Fall is not there ;-)
The level assignments are really dumb, someone screwed up big time there, especially on the "8th level Ki Powers." You have the list of monk class features that can be swappe right there, was it so hard to match the levels up? O_O
And yes, you can swap a feature out and gain it back later for a different lost class class feature. That's intentional. That's why those options are THERE. Just be careful, in a lot of cases the Ki Power version adds ki point costs that weren't there before, which is really annoying, too.
The level assignments are really dumb, someone screwed up big time there, especially on the "8th level Ki Powers." You have the list of monk class features that can be swappe right there, was it so hard to match the levels up? O_O
Yea... unfortunately I have to agree. Another reason why I started this topic was to see if anyone knew why they choose such weird levels for the new Ki powers. The only logical answer aside from 'it was a mistake' seemed to be that you can swap powers at any given level, not just when you receive the powers.