Paladin Code of Conduct and Kingmaker.


Rules Questions


I have a few questions:
Can a Lawful Good Paladin of Abadar start a Kingdown with an Alignement of Lawful Neutral? I am wondering because in the Paladin entry it says:
A paladin may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good.
Second: If a Paladin is asked a question and he lies to enrich his Kingdom wouldnt that violate his CoC. He was asked if he knew about any mines in the Greenbelt and he said no, although he knew that there was a goldmine.
If a Paladin taunts the barbarian to attack a trapped animal although the ranger is at that moment working to befriend it would it not also violate the CoC.
Last but not least, if a Paladin breaks an Oath, not to save someone but to let a friend get a better Position would you also call that a Violation of his Code of Conduct?
Any answer would really be appreciated!


Lying breaks the code. As does oath breaking in my opinion.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Maps Subscriber

In my opinion, in a "Lawful Neutral" city, there probably are henchmen there that are personally Lawful Good aligned. I wouldn't use the alignment of the kingdom as a whole as a characteristic of EVERYONE in the kingdom. Even in Good-aligned cities, there may be a thief around the corner. As his cohorts build the city, other not so Lawful Good people may creep in. As long as the cities alignment as a whole doesn't stray too far, even LG paladins would stay even if to help steer the people towards goodness.


The question is not stay but "START". As the King in his Kingdom.


Helikon wrote:

I have a few questions:

Can a Lawful Good Paladin of Abadar start a Kingdown with an Alignement of Lawful Neutral? I am wondering because in the Paladin entry it says:
A paladin may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good.

Henchmen, followers, and cohorts have specific meanings in the rules. Basically, it means he can't accept the direct, personal loyalty of someone who doesn't share his alignment. He couldn't single-handedly found a kingdom that wasn't LG, but he certainly could be a part of doing so. Ruling it would be questionable - he would want to pass laws that push it towards LG.

Quote:

Second: If a Paladin is asked a question and he lies to enrich his Kingdom wouldnt that violate his CoC. He was asked if he knew about any mines in the Greenbelt and he said no, although he knew that there was a goldmine.

If a Paladin taunts the barbarian to attack a trapped animal although the ranger is at that moment working to befriend it would it not also violate the CoC.
Last but not least, if a Paladin breaks an Oath, not to save someone but to let a friend get a better Position would you also call that a Violation of his Code of Conduct?
Any answer would really be appreciated!

There are all very un-paladin-y behavior. The first could be justified in some circumstances, but the third is a major violation.


I don't know why a paladin would, in character, want to start a LN city. If he's the king, he's definitely going to make a LG city.

Paladins don't have deities, unless they want to. And if the deity isn't LG, the paladin emphasizes the LG aspects of the deity.


Cheapy wrote:
I don't know why a paladin would, in character, want to start a LN city.

This actually sums it up very well. The paladin, to stay in character, shouldn't want to start a LN city (but the player could be willing to have his character overruled). He shouldn't want to lie, screw over his party members, or break an oath. It doesn't mean he won't, under the right circumstances, but there have to be some really good reasons. And it's quite possible to be put in a situation where the paladin has to choose between two things which will cause him to fall. But none of what you described is anything near that significant.

Dark Archive

Sounds like your player wants to play a fighter with Paladin powers, if he knowingly lied and he's already breaking his oaths. Also, like mentioned why does he want to start a lawful neutral town and not a lawful good.


I would say the paladin can start the LN town purely because the towns alignment is not based entirely on him, as always a paladin will push it towards LG but he is only one character. also the population of a Lawful Good city won't be entirely LG, same applies for this place

2) Depends on the situation, was he lying to cheat someone? did he have a contract that stated revealing the mine? was he asked casually or under duress? did the questioner have any real business asking? is the mine part of a plan that will aid the people of the local area?

3)that could be considered a needless act of cruelty, if its trapped and being worked with, in what manner did he taunt? HAH I bet you can't cut its head off in one strike, I double dare ya!
Either way its definetly a point against him, even more so if the animal was harmless, agressive predators may be considered a potential threat and he might be able to get away with that, but if its something like a deer thats gotten stuck thats got issues with the CoC

4) broken oath, CoC violation and for greed to boot.
Oaths are serious things and should never be given or broken lightly, if it was purely for greed, good bye paladin powers


Helikon wrote:

I have a few questions:

Can a Lawful Good Paladin of Abadar start a Kingdown with an Alignement of Lawful Neutral? I am wondering because in the Paladin entry it says:
A paladin may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good.

Yes. Henchmen followers and cohorts are specific aspects of the leadership feat that the paladin has more or less direct control over. The rule isn't intended to make the player responsible for everyone everywhere forever. It might be reasonable to require that all the top administrators / military be LG or at least represent themselves as such.

Helikon wrote:


Second: If a Paladin is asked a question and he lies to enrich his Kingdom wouldnt that violate his CoC. He was asked if he knew about any mines in the Greenbelt and he said no, although he knew that there was a goldmine.

Yes. Although I think with details like this you have to be a little careful of situations where the player might not have a 100% perfect memory of what the character knows. The intent of the character is the important thing. Also, people often forget that simply not wanting to tell someone something is an option. Just because a paladin is bound to truth and honor doesn't mean he drinks sodium pentathol with every meal. When we get gaming with friends we tend to want to always have an answer to keep conversations going etc when in reality with politics the default answer to most things is "none of your beeswax" so lying doesn't happen as much.

Helikon wrote:


If a Paladin taunts the barbarian to attack a trapped animal although the ranger is at that moment working to befriend it would it not also violate the CoC.

Really need more details on this one to decide.

Helikon wrote:


Last but not least, if a Paladin breaks an Oath, not to save someone but to let a friend get a better Position would you also call that a Violation of his Code of Conduct?
Any answer would really be appreciated!

Definitely

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Helikon wrote:

I have a few questions:

Can a Lawful Good Paladin of Abadar start a Kingdown with an Alignement of Lawful Neutral? I am wondering because in the Paladin entry it says:
A paladin may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good.
Second: If a Paladin is asked a question and he lies to enrich his Kingdom wouldnt that violate his CoC. He was asked if he knew about any mines in the Greenbelt and he said no, although he knew that there was a goldmine.
If a Paladin taunts the barbarian to attack a trapped animal although the ranger is at that moment working to befriend it would it not also violate the CoC.
Last but not least, if a Paladin breaks an Oath, not to save someone but to let a friend get a better Position would you also call that a Violation of his Code of Conduct?
Any answer would really be appreciated!

Is someone asking this question because they wish to play a Paladin... Or a Jerk? Because it sounds a lot like leaning towards the latter.

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