| Fergie |
Last time I checked, rage did not allow the use of any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) or any ability that requires patience or concentration. That means that Perform is right out.
"Objects that are the subject of an arcane bond must fall into one of the following categories: amulet, ring, staff, wand, or weapon. These objects are always masterwork quality. "
I'm 99% sure that claws are not objects, nor can they be masterwork.
Perhaps someone with more knowledge of the latest books can offer different answers.
EDIT:
"Controlled Rage (Ex): When an urban barbarian rages, instead of making a normal rage she may apply a +4 morale bonus to her Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution. This bonus increases to +6 when she gains greater rage and +8 when she gains mighty rage. She may apply the full bonus to one ability score or may split the bonus between several scores in increments of +2. When using a controlled rage, an urban barbarian gains no bonus on Will saves, takes no penalties to AC, and can still use Intelligence-, Dexterity-, and Charisma-based skills. This ability otherwise follows the normal rules for rage."
This DOES seem to allow rage and bardic performance. Hmmm...
LazarX
|
I'm looking for a arcane duelist barbarian for a friend.
Can a bard enter in rage during bardic performance?
If he can't, can a urban barbarian using bardic performance in rage?Can two identical natural attack (two claws) be arcane bond? And one?
If you enter rage the performance ends.
If you end your rage you can start a performance, with applicable penalties applied for coming out of rage.
Unless you find specific mechanics, feats, or a GM that looks the other way, rage and performances don't mix.
| Mort the Cleverly Named |
According to a fellow in this thread, in 3.5 they said you could. Take that in whatever way you prefer. Pathfinder doesn't really say anything about it, meaning it is going to end up being a GM's call.
Personally, I would think you probably can't combine them (unless you are an urban barbarian). The concentration and Charisma based skill aspects make it too problematic.
That said, the combination is pretty cool, as well as viable without being game breaking. If your friend wants, he can argue that, since you are not technically rolling any sort of skill check, it works fine. I don't personally agree with that argument, but the GM might. Otherwise, he can beg for a house rule, or go urban.
Also: No, natural weapons can't be an arcane bond. Sorry.
LazarX
|
According to a fellow in this thread, in 3.5 they said you could. Take that in whatever way you prefer. Pathfinder doesn't really say anything about it, meaning it is going to end up being a GM's call.
Yes it plainly does. Look up the rage mechanics. You can not use Charisma based skills in a rage. You can not execute a performance without using a Charisma based skill. Done and done.
| arioreo |
Where do the rules say bardic performance is skill based?
The perform skill is only mentioned in the first sentence of the general description (which is often regarded as fluff rather than mechanics).
It is mentioned again as a specific check for those performances that include an active or counter active aspect (countersong and Fascinate forinstance).
It is not mentioned for inspire courage. Furtheremore, you don't need to do your perform thing to active inspire courage. A bard that has chosen perform (mandolin) doesn't need to take out his mandolin and drop his weapon to perform/start a bardic performance.
Yes, it kills the fluff though that's just how it is.
Furtheremore, it is not an ability that requires patience. One could see it as an ability that requires concentration though there are reason to assume different.
Some people sing under the shower, I find it hard to believe they are actively concentrating.
IHMO, save for those that actually require a skill check, the combination of rage and performance (given correct action economy) is fine.
| Cheapy |
Mort the Cleverly Named wrote:Yes it plainly does. Look up the rage mechanics. You can not use Charisma based skills in a rage. You can not execute a performance without using a Charisma based skill. Done and done.According to a fellow in this thread, in 3.5 they said you could. Take that in whatever way you prefer. Pathfinder doesn't really say anything about it, meaning it is going to end up being a GM's call.
So you can't Countersong or use Distraction. The rest are not skill based.
| Fergie |
Where do the rules say bardic performance is skill based?
"Bardic Performance: A bard is trained to use the Perform skill to create magical effects on those around him, including himself if desired."
It is the first sentence of the description! They even have a link to the skill! EVERY effect from countersong to deadly performance, ALL are uses of the perform skill. Almost everyone description includes the use of the word "performance". I don't think it could be any clearer.
| MyTThor |
Where do the rules say bardic performance is skill based?
The perform skill is only mentioned in the first sentence of the general description (which is often regarded as fluff rather than mechanics).
It is mentioned again as a specific check for those performances that include an active or counter active aspect (countersong and Fascinate forinstance).It is not mentioned for inspire courage. Furtheremore, you don't need to do your perform thing to active inspire courage. A bard that has chosen perform (mandolin) doesn't need to take out his mandolin and drop his weapon to perform/start a bardic performance.
Yes, it kills the fluff though that's just how it is.Furtheremore, it is not an ability that requires patience. One could see it as an ability that requires concentration though there are reason to assume different.
Some people sing under the shower, I find it hard to believe they are actively concentrating.IHMO, save for those that actually require a skill check, the combination of rage and performance (given correct action economy) is fine.
As stated above, in the first line of the ability description it says you use the perform skill. If a fighter ability started off saying "An axe fighter is trained to use axes very efficiently" in the first line, and didn't refer to axes again in the ability description, would you dismiss it as "fluff" and let them use a sword for it?
As for your idea that a bard doesn't have to use an instrument to perform? That's made up also. Sure you can perform with sing or oratory instead of mandolin, but if you want to perform mandolin music, you've got to use a mandolin. That's not fluff, it's just common sense.
In the case of the singing in the shower metaphor, while that doesn't require concentration, I think it's reasonable to postulate (though this one is just my opinion, as it can't be based in any fact) that the type of singing that is so powerful that it might inspire those around you to fight or perform better DOES require concentration. That's more than any musician alive today can do, and certainly when the best singers are giving their best performances, they're putting more concentration into it than me or you singing in the shower.
| Cheapy |
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You do not need to use a Perform skill to activate those abilities.
See this post, and specifically the "No reply needed" response by the designers.
If you want to, you can use a mandolin as the basis of your performance. But nothing forces you to use a performance skill, like the 3.5 bard did.
Special
A bard must have ranks in specific Perform categories to use some of his Bardic Performance abilities.
Guess which ones those refer to? The abilities that mention the Perform skill. Which are Countersong and Distraction, and notably, NOT Inspire Courage.
Most of their performances are like rage. You turn them on. And that's it. You can fluff it up all you want. If you want to gimp yourself and use an instrument to inspire courage, that's fine. If you don't want to and just let the magic of the abilities do the work, that's fine too.
The pathfinder bard is not the froofy musician that the 3.5 bard was.
All of their archetypes continually show this. The rules show this.
And yes, I will continue to ignore fluff that isn't backed up by the actual rules.
That said, I don't think you can actually rage and use bardic performance in the same round, mostly due to the Savage Skald's Incite Rage that explicitly states the bard can't use it on themselves.