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A couple of days ago I was going through potential hazards and monsters to use in dungeon environment, and I noticed that green slime's description and art still does not (IMO) correctly match its statistics. Back in AD&D, I remember that it was explicitly noted that green slime could only affect "live" flesh and would quickly turn a victim into a patch of green slime as well. Buth here is how it works in 3E and PF RPG:
Green slime devours flesh and organic materials on contact and is even capable of dissolving metal. A single 5-foot square of green slime deals 1d6 points of Constitution damage per round while it devours flesh. On the first round of contact, the slime can be scraped off a creature (destroying the scraping device), but after that it must be frozen, burned, or cut away (dealing damage to the victim as well). Anything that deals cold or fire damage, sunlight, or a remove disease spell destroys a patch of green slime.
These days it simply deals constitution damage, yet the text from PRD implies it devours/dissolves all flesh, apparently even that of dead creatures? Even though it cannot harm them, since corporeal undead are immune to con damage? (Unless, of course, dead flesh would be equated to wood or metal...)
My point is, based on how it's been described in the game, I've always felt green slime is corrosive, and this is also supported by the art piece of the poor, melting goblin in the core rulebook (p. 416). Shouldn't it simply deal acid damage, then? I don't know, somehow it all feels contradictory to me, but then again, we always shrugged at the whole thing back in AD&D, too (however, it did make more sense that it simply turned you into slime, instead of devouring your con score).
I'm also a bit puzzled by the reference to cold and fire damage; green slime does not have HD or HPs, so is one point enough to kill it? And what about "cutting it away"? Do you have to cut away the victim's arm or leg, or would one point of damage (again) be enough for this purpose?
Thoughts?
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I could swear the fire/cold damage could be just a single point, but the host takes damage, too. Same with cutting it away and the slime potentially damaging the tool. I'd think that any sturdy item would work for scraping off the slime [although it's gonna get slimy, too].
Dunno why it wouldn't work on undead flesh; isn't there a line somewhere about undead using Charisma for Constitution-related stuff? Heck, in real world history, corpses were sometimes used for firewood [mummies], so I'd use wood as a good model for a lot of organic-but-not-necessarily-alive situations.
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I could swear the fire/cold damage could be just a single point, but the host takes damage, too. Same with cutting it away and the slime potentially damaging the tool. I'd think that any sturdy item would work for scraping off the slime [although it's gonna get slimy, too].
Dunno why it wouldn't work on undead flesh; isn't there a line somewhere about undead using Charisma for Constitution-related stuff? Heck, in real world history, corpses were sometimes used for firewood [mummies], so I'd use wood as a good model for a lot of organic-but-not-necessarily-alive situations.
It's pure RAW that green slime cannot affect corporeal undead, since they don't have a con score (as you said, undead use charisma instead of con). But the real question is that why doesn't it affect dead flesh, if it seems to corrode/consume live organic material? Is it some sort of bacteria instead of corrosive slime? That is what I'd like to know, because my players will likely pose this question to me (we've ignored it in the past, but my current players are more curious).
As for fire/cold damage, I think one point would be enough, but I'm not sure about the cutting part...
When the players ask "why doesn't it work on dead things" tell them the truth.
THEY don't know.
They just.. have no idea.
Its likely no one in the campaign world has any clue either. the slime just eats living stuff and no one really knows why it doesn't effect corpses or undead.
Maybe the slime likes its meals with a pulse :) who knows.
PC's only get answers to what their characters have access to knowing..
:)
-S
Flavor is mutable. I would just make up a story about its creation. Maybe a necromancer created it. :)
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"Green slime devours flesh and organic materials on contact and is even capable of dissolving metal. "
There are no rules about the damage done to metal or non living organic material.
I would use something like 1d6 hp of damage for round of contact for non living things/creatures, with the capacity to bypass most hardness.
I must say that that your question has sparked a very bad idea (for my players). A patch of green slime that has devoured all the flesh from a zombie, leaving only the animated skeleton to which it clings (the bones have a organic origin, but are generally much more resistant than flesh). Not RAW it it can be a nasty encounter.
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@Selgard & wraithstrike : Yeah, I can just say that it's a mystery, or that ancient archmages created them, but it feels like a cop-out, especially if one of the PCs rolls 25+ in a Knowledge (dungeoneering) check (which entitles him, by RAW, to more information than just vague rumours or "you don't know"). In AD&D it was easier to say that characters don't know why monster X's ability Y works the way it does, but Knowledge skills (and in this case it's only DC 19) have changed this.
Maybe I'll explain the whole thing. Now that Diego mentioned it, my original idea was that the PCs would be pursuing a couple of ghouls through a corridor that has several patches of green slime (both on the ceiling and the floor). Just as they start frantically scraping off/burning the slime, they would be assaulted by a stronger group of ghouls and ghasts. Or that was what I first thought, but then I asked myself: "Would the slime know the difference between a living and undead target? And if it can instantaneously devour flesh, WHY does it do con damage and not acid damage?"
At that point someone will surely ask (and as a player I'd do it also myself) "Hold on... this slime which is eating through my armor doesn't do anything to those ghouls? I'm gonna use Knowledge (dungeoneering) check here, because there's something fishy about this".
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"Green slime devours flesh and organic materials on contact and is even capable of dissolving metal. "
There are no rules about the damage done to metal or non living organic material.
I would use something like 1d6 hp of damage for round of contact for non living things/creatures, with the capacity to bypass most hardness.I must say that that your question has sparked a very bad idea (for my players). A patch of green slime that has devoured all the flesh from a zombie, leaving only the animated skeleton to which it clings (the bones have a organic origin, but are generally much more resistant than flesh). Not RAW it it can be a nasty encounter.
As noted above, my original idea was indeed to use green slime in a ghoul-infested corridor, but then I started thinking that I have to be able to tell curious players why it hasn't devoured or harmed any undead. Also, ghouls wouldn't likely share their meals with the slime.
Anyway, I didn't quote the whole bit. Here's what PRD says about damage to metal and wood:
Against wood or metal, green slime deals 2d6 points of damage per round, ignoring metal's hardness but not that of wood. It does not harm stone.
...and your knowledge Duneoneering check tells you "Legend and Lore has it that the Green Slime likes the taste of living flesh and will eat through things to get to it".
Maybe the slime secretes the 'acid' like a jellyfish pops venom, maybe no one really knows the hows and why's because the science just isn't there yet.
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"Green slime devours flesh and organic materials on contact and is even capable of dissolving metal. "
There are no rules about the damage done to metal or non living organic material.
I would use something like 1d6 hp of damage for round of contact for non living things/creatures, with the capacity to bypass most hardness.I must say that that your question has sparked a very bad idea (for my players). A patch of green slime that has devoured all the flesh from a zombie, leaving only the animated skeleton to which it clings (the bones have a organic origin, but are generally much more resistant than flesh). Not RAW it it can be a nasty encounter.
As noted above, my original idea was indeed to use green slime in a ghoul-infested corridor, but then I started thinking that I have to be able to tell curious players why it hasn't devoured or harmed any undead. Also, ghouls wouldn't likely share their meals with the slime.
Anyway, I didn't quote the whole bit. Here's what PRD says about damage to metal and wood:
Against wood or metal, green slime deals 2d6 points of damage per round, ignoring metal's hardness but not that of wood. It does not harm stone.
I had looked the PRD and missed that line. Thanks for getting it to my attention.
I would treat dead flesh like wood (wood is dead organic matter, after all). Bones would get some level of hardness, so they should survive for a time.It will not work with your ghoul scenario, but you can change them to weakened Huecuvas. The slime would have stripped all the flesh from them, so if needed you could reduce their HP or attacks.
If your PC are strong enough a single, wakened Mohrg will be interesting, I think. Having lost all his flesh he would have lost his tongue attack and suffer from some other downgrading of its abilities, but it could be interesting.
Or simply you could create a new kind of skeletal undead.
But what if the slime only likes living flesh? What if it is not interested in carrion?
Also, with undead, as they are not in a preservative then surely all the ghouls 'flesh' would fall off over time anyhow, ditto zombies. Just because the flesh fell off the stats shouldn't change :p
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But what if the slime only likes living flesh? What if it is not interested in carrion?
Also, with undead, as they are not in a preservative then surely all the ghouls 'flesh' would fall off over time anyhow, ditto zombies. Just because the flesh fell off the stats shouldn't change :p
Don't forget that ghouls suck bone marrow; maybe that makes them "fleshier" and healthier than zombies? ;P
In this particular case these are not ancient dead, but a group of fallen adventurers (plus some unfortunate orcs) animated and led by a huecuva cleric; that is why they're not as rotten as ghouls who've been trapped in a sealed crypt for decades or centuries.
As for the ecology of the green slime... yeah, most likely they were created by a magical accident/mishap, and thus it may be okay to assume that their acid only works on certain materials (living flesh, metal and wood). It just feels a bit weird, and as I said, these days the rules allow characters to get a lot more information on various subjects -- sometimes forcing the GM to improvise on the fly. Occasionally I've tried the "You simply don't know, even though you rolled a natural 20, and got 35 as your check" type of answer, but it is usually met with vocal protests.
Anyway, I don't think green slime can tell a living target from an unliving one; since they don't have "real" stats, it's hard to say whether they have blinsense or any ranks in perception. I believe they sense movement and drop down, regardless of whether it's a human, a golem or a ghoul. And that kind of makes my scenario impossible, because I want at least a few patches on the ceiling, in a corridor that sees a lot of travel.
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"Green slime devours flesh and organic materials on contact and is even capable of dissolving metal. "
There are no rules about the damage done to metal or non living organic material.
I would use something like 1d6 hp of damage for round of contact for non living things/creatures, with the capacity to bypass most hardness.I must say that that your question has sparked a very bad idea (for my players). A patch of green slime that has devoured all the flesh from a zombie, leaving only the animated skeleton to which it clings (the bones have a organic origin, but are generally much more resistant than flesh). Not RAW it it can be a nasty encounter.
As noted above, my original idea was indeed to use green slime in a ghoul-infested corridor, but then I started thinking that I have to be able to tell curious players why it hasn't devoured or harmed any undead. Also, ghouls wouldn't likely share their meals with the slime.
Anyway, I didn't quote the whole bit. Here's what PRD says about damage to metal and wood:
Against wood or metal, green slime deals 2d6 points of damage per round, ignoring metal's hardness but not that of wood. It does not harm stone.I had looked the PRD and missed that line. Thanks for getting it to my attention.
I would treat dead flesh like wood (wood is dead organic matter, after all). Bones would get some level of hardness, so they should survive for a time.It will not work with your ghoul scenario, but you can change them to weakened Huecuvas. The slime would have stripped all the flesh from them, so if needed you could reduce their HP or attacks.
If your PC are strong enough a single, wakened Mohrg will be interesting, I think. Having lost all his flesh he would have lost his tongue attack and suffer from some other downgrading of its abilities, but it could be interesting.Or simply you could create a new kind of skeletal undead.
Okay, your point about wood being dead organic matter is a good one. Even though green slime could only affect "live" flesh in AD&D, it's fair to say that now it can corrode zombies or ghouls (it just takes a while).
Although slime-encrusted ghouls sound nice, it may be just easier if I change my plan and use them as separate encounters. For example, there's a nice, empty crypt that already has a nasty trap...maybe I could add some oil of slipperiness on the stairs, and a few patches of green slime on the floor and ceiling? Hmmm...
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Well, you could tweak it to some variant like "Tomb Slime" that's suffused with negative energy. Not enough to actually heal the ghouls [or maybe it is, depending on how hard you want the fight to be], but definitely enough to give the slime an unquenchable hunger for living flesh. It totally ignores anything that's also suffused with negative energy [the ghouls], but eats its way through anything in its path to get to the sweet lifemeats.