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Who wants to see a Vudra product?
In Legacy of Fire, there is a happy little background called Latent Psion. This means Vudra has a substantial psionics community.
So, who wants to see a Vudra product?
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Who wants to see a Vudra product?
In Legacy of Fire, there is a happy little background called Latent Psion. This means Vudra has a substantial psionics community.
So, who wants to see a Vudra product?
I very much want more Vudra. And Jalmeray. I've been wanting more on those places and their people for a very long time now.
More on the Vudrani people.
More on Irori.
More monk traditions.
More on the thousands of gods Vudra has.
More on rakshasas.
More on asuras.
More on nagas.
Bring us some Indian/Hindu-flavored celestials.
Bring on the apsaras.
Bring on the multi-aspect deities.
Bring on the psionics.
Bring on fully fleshed out, fantasic caste systems and societies, along with all the values dissonance they can explore.
Also, Carolina Eade as lead artist.
Who wants to see a Vudra product?
In Legacy of Fire, there is a happy little background called Latent Psion. This means Vudra has a substantial psionics community.
So, who wants to see a Vudra product?
I very much want more Vudra. And Jalmeray. I've been wanting more on those places and their people for a very long time now.
More on the Vudrani people.
More on Irori.
More monk traditions.
More on the thousands of gods Vudra has.
More on rakshasas.
More on asuras.
More on nagas.
Bring us some Indian/Hindu-flavored celestials.
Bring on the apsaras.
Bring on the multi-aspect deities.
Bring on the psionics.
Bring on fully fleshed out, fantasic caste systems and societies, along with all the values dissonance they can explore.
Also, Carolina Eade as lead artist.
This X umpty bazillion.
Even the Carolina Eade bit.
Also, if we are going to have apsaras, there's better be a good number of yaksha/yakshini as well.
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Not really interested in it myself. Psionics don't really thrill me, but more than that, I'm not too fond of attempts at mythic India so far. Perhaps Paizo can surprise me, but if that surprise is going to be based on it being "psionics land" then they shouldn't bother.
"Psionics Land?"
Just because there is a substantial psionics community in Vudra doesn't mean it's a Psiarchy. Give them some credit. Paizo may have plans for Vudra that does not mean that it's ruled by psions. Just so that there is enough that a good number of Vudrani have latent psionic abilities.
Vudra would have to come out of research. The man or woman writing the Gazetteer would have to at least read the Ramayana. Then there is the Rig Vedas, the Mahrabarata, and many other cycles -- all translated into English.
Then there is Polytheism as expressed by Hinduism (which is an Indo-European religion). Buddhism, and Jainism will also be researched along with many other metaphysical systems. Then there is the Caste System, which is probably the worst way you can control a human being outside of downright slavery.
There is Hanuman, Rama, the Vanaras, and a lot more to look at; just to get a basis. Then he or she will sit down to work, building off what Paizo had said about the land already. They may base it on a good number of Indian epochs and empires; even during their Warring States period. There could be any number of kingdoms. Many of them an actual kingdom rather than a psiarchy.
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Doing anything with Vudra is a long ways out.
First, because we just made our initial attempt to significantly expand the world with the Dragon Empires and that's an experience none of us are eager to repeat anytime soon. Second, because we have mentioned that psionics are more common in Vudra, meaning we would have to get our vision of what that means out there--no mean feat. Third, for many of the reasons Elton mentioned. I would want Vudra to be born from the cultural epics of India, and while I've worked races like the vishkanya, vanara, and asuras into Golarion so far (and have a few more in the wings), my knowledge of Indian folklore is still at more of an enthusiast's level than a scholar's (my reading of the Ramayana stalled out some time ago). So tracking down an author we consider an expert then--even more difficult--being able to verify that author's work would be far more challenging than our typical efforts without any increase in resources (see my first point) nor the promise of increased rewards for those efforts (see my next point).
The big fourth question that we finally have to consider is would it be worth our time--as in, would it make financial sense to do and support with tie-in products. There's not doubt that many people would get a kick out of it, but like the Dragon Empires we'd probably want to do an adventure, primer, and probably an Adventure Path. That's a lot of time, a lot of effort, and a lot of not-anything-else for a country that is pretty far from the core "knights vs dragons" conceit near our world and game's heart.
So Vudra is still quite a ways out. That said, it, Southern Garund, and Iblydos are very near the top of the regions we'd like to explore next time we venture off the map. But with major parts of Avistan and Garund that aren't even fully detailed (Nidal, Galt, Nex & Geb, Rahadoum) there's not a big rush to go running off the map again any time soon. Until then, expect to keep seeing bits of Vudra as you've seen it up till now, which is to say piecemeal as new characters, groups, influences on Avistan, details on Jalmeray, and especially monsters.
As for myself, I love to write it. But I've only watched the Ramayana t.v. series. Which, while considered to be the Ramayana -- which is strange -- is only one part of many different interpretations. :) Even though I have experience with the Psionics system that Bruce and Jeremy came up with.
And since I'll be involved in something big that has nothing to do with Roleplaying but with the Auto Industry, I don't have the time to write something really good. :) So, the managing editor is right. It will be a while. I put up the thread to see if there was interest beyond two or three people.
:)
So tracking down an author we consider an expert then--even more difficult--being able to verify that author's work would be far more challenging than our typical efforts without any increase in resources (see my first point) nor the promise of increased rewards for those efforts (see my next point).
You could do far worse than Allen Varney (of TSR fame). Not to speak for the man, obviously, but I wonder that he might not be a good choice for the job. He wrote a very good product detailing a fantasy India in HWR3: Nightstorm (the nation of Sind/Shahjaphur), and he has expressed an interest in doing more with Indian cultural mythology and history in a few threads over at The Piazza, where he is a member.
I'm not sure how familiar (if at all) he is with Pathfinder rules, but he's definitely got the designer chops. I'd totally buy a Vudra supplement by him.
At any rate, yeah, someone like that is who you would probably want to tackle a project like this. Vetted, with a more than trivial interest in and knowledge of Indian culture. Plus, as you note, the difficulties inherent with a psionics approach for Pathfinder.
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Interesting.
I have about 170 pages of PF based India goodness finished (A Thousand Gods is the working title). It'll probably be about 200 or so when I get to the Con in July.
I'm not sure I'm a true expert (my Sanskrit is sketchy at best). But I've been researching the subject for maybe 10 years, and have a background in mythology, linguistics, and poetry. I have read all the epics, the Rig Veda, the Puranas, the Shahnameh, the Dastan of Amir Hamza, the Journey to the West, a number of Indian grimoires, books on and about Yoga, Tantra, a large number of Tibetan Buddhist histories and esoteric texts, and the Greek, Roman, and Medieval European romances and fables about India.
Here's what I've got so far:
20 pages of timeline based on Hindu, Persian, and some European and Chinese legend. I've used alternate but mostly authentic names for gods and heroes to keep things from being too based on the RW and all the political and religious fallout that entails.
Rules for Karma, Dhamma, and the effects of these on things like caste and magic. Being an outcast actually makes you more dangerous in witchcraft, for instance.
A few classes in development: the Yogi, the Bhikku, and the Avatar. Plus the Faqir, Devadasi, and Yantrika and Mantrika archetypes, and the Strangler, Tantrika, and Charioteer prestige classes.
about 60 pages of monsters:
Apsara
Asura
Daitya
Danava
Kalakeya
Baghaut
Baital
Bhairava
Bear, Sloth
Chanda
Chedipe
Churel
Dakini
Deva
Dhole
Dragon
Makara
Mahoraga
Gajendra
Ganapata
Gandharva
Garuda
Gaur
Genie
Deo
Grahi
Grama
Guyusimha
Hamsa
Heruka
Jackal
Jilaiya
Karkadann
Kimidin
Kimpurusha
Kinnara
Kumbhanda
Mara
Masan
Mongoose
Monkey, Rhesus
Naga
Nagarani
Pannaga
Peri
Peridexion Tree
Pisacha
Pret
Putana
Raaka
Rakshasa
Ribhu
Rukshya
Shadhavar
Timingila
Uraga
Vanara
Vetala
Vidyadhari
Vrikshaka
Yaksha
Yakshini
about 30 pages of Gazetteer. The India I'm using is based off 800 CE early medieval India so I could include the Journey to the West, the Arab invasion, various stripes of Buddhism (including Tibetan, which originated around then) and Jainism, and Tantrikas. It does have Vanaras and other non-humans playing a role, so it's not exactly a duplicate of our world's medieval South Asia.
Lots of maps. Discussions of using the material with different types of campaigns and game worlds. A breakdown of the basic cosmology (a compromise between Buddhism, Jainism and Hinduism).
This isn't Vudra - it's closer to say, Pendragon in its intention to be a semi-historical fantasy, though it does pre-suppose that the epics happened, and hence the magic level is close to PF standard rather than low-magic.
I do not use Psionics in this book. Study of the Yoga magical systems (not just stretching...) and the Buddhist abhijinas (thought magics) suggests they are best simulated by the standard spell list. In fact, I don't have to invent many spells at all.
I'd love to retrofit this to Golarion - though it would be a lot of work... but I suspect that I'll get it out 3rd party and then all the crunchy bits will be OGL for when Paizo does get around to it.
Oh, and I have about fifty pages of ideas on Iblydos, too.
You're sickeningly awesome, Jeff.
Keep it up!
:}
Are you coming to PaizoCon Adam? I'd love to meet.
PS. I also have a 20 page sketch of an AP for Vudra. It's Golarion-centric, but I am planning to revise it for a Earth-like setting, should A Thousand Gods get out into book form.
There is also VedicDragon's work, available at the Paizo thread here.
Well, looks like we will have a lot of people waiting with baited breath. :)
To reiterate, I applied with a Vudrani in a Breath of Fire campaign. He has the Latent Psi background, so yes I suspect that there is a substantial community of psions in Vudra. Who ever writes it, I hope there aren't any plotholes. I'll be disappointed.
:)
Oh, and not to mention my city of Psions which I located in Qadira. :)
Well, looks like we will have a lot of people waiting with baited breath. :)
To reiterate, I applied with a Vudrani in a Breath of Fire campaign. He has the Latent Psi background, so yes I suspect that there is a substantial community of psions in Vudra. Who ever writes it, I hope there aren't any plotholes. I'll be disappointed.
:)Oh, and not to mention my city of Psions which I located in Qadira. :)
James Jacobs has indicated that Psionics (or Mind Magic) will work differently in PF than it did in 3.5 (or 1.0 or 2.0). As such, any Vudra book will probably be developed in tandem with a new system. You may notice that the 3.5 style Psionics vaguely discussed in the Campaign Setting book is absent in the Inner Sea Guide, including the associations with Vudra.
We'll see how they are interpreted. I decided with my setting to take on the problem by using authentic sources. One thing I discovered about the notion of psychic powers from Indian legend is that they in folklore, practice and in the ritual texts they resemble Western style magic more than they do Sci-Fi materials (some of this is just reskinning, but I think also that Psionics uses a different system to be different, not because the spell system actually does a bad job of doing psychic powers and superhero abilities).
. . . but I think also that Psionics uses a different system to be different, not because the spell system actually does a bad job of doing psychic powers and superhero abilities).
Actually, Jeff, if Vudra's psionic system is going to be Vancian based, I have several alternative systems to make it more in line to what Quantum Physicists and Life Coaches are discovering about our capabilities. Of the many different types, Star Wars SAGA and it's system of handling the Force is clearly the most acceptable to all.
If it takes a skill called "Use the Force" as a basis, then so be it. To me, the different system is acceptable for the precise reason that it works the closest. If people don't like it, they don't have too. If you want to use the Vancian system, do so if you must. But make sure it's what the people wants and it's not because it's out of tradition.
As for myself, if it's going to be that radical, I'll use the Force rules. I can't predict how my players would react, but at least the rules for the Force is more inline with how the Law of Attraction works than Vancian casting. Especially when the Force has been scientifically established since the 1920s, when it was discovered by Doctor Wilhelm Reich when he was investigating the Libido. He called it Orgone Energy.
At least ways, I suggest you make a study of the Law Attraction and how it can work for you if you're doing anything with Psionics. Just know the whole side of how it works and make market research as to the best way to proceed.
We could even call them Psychics and Jeff could work with Paizo to create
the classes.
Actually if Jeff would work with Paizo to do the Psionics.... That would be awesome :)
If they do it, I hope they make a bigger gazetteer like Khatapesh, and not one of the near-worthless small gazetteers like Cheliax.
If we get a Vudra book, then it will probably get the same treatment as Dragon Empires - one page per state, new races and so on. It's a separate continent after all. And it will probably receive a gatzetteer for players as well.
Small gatzetteers are mostly intended for players and big ones are true DM resources, but we are miles away from receiving anything like that for any vudran states with sole exception of Jermelay IMO.
I can't tell if you're serious or just... Well, let me just ask: What you mean by "our capabilities" in the first sentence? Also, where exactly is this scientific research you mention?
It's so simple, a child could grasp it.
We are vibrational beings. We vibrate at certain frequencies. The Universe also vibrates at certain frequencies. To govern how our vibrations interact with outside vibrations, a Law was put in place by Nature that governs our vibrations.
Secondly, Nature grants us whatever we desire or ask for. The net result is that we are capable of Anything you can imagine. What begins is a simple thought, a vibration, sent to Nature which works to make this real and actual. This process is manifestation. When it is made manifest it is made physical so we can experience it with our five senses. This process is done entirely without a spell book.
Thirdly, we are Infinite Beings. What that means is that there are an infinite number of ourselves experiencing an infinite number of possibilities.
According to the infamous double slit experiment matter exists as both energy waves and particles. This is because anything we do not directly observe is Energy, and what we do observe as matter.
How this works is that we collapse the Quantum Wave function of Energy into Matter we can directly observe either consciously or unconsciously. In effect, we are creating our life experience in a real way. The trick is to learn how to do it Consciously and not do it unconsciously.
So, what does this have to do with magic?
Sorcerers, Clerics, Wizards, and Psions fulfill a fantasy of being directly in control of our reality. The difference between the three former ones and the Psion are these:
All four essentially has the same source of power; and they work through the same rules; but what differs is the method of how they get their work done. The sad part is the Cleric, the Sorcerer, and the Wizard all limit themselves to spell components, ritual, incantations, and vocalizations. The Psion has no limit on his potential, no intermediary between him and Nature. it's just him imposing his will on Nature and Nature directly granting him what he wants.
The sickening thing about this reality is that we can interfere with our own manifestations. While the fantasy Psion has no time to interfere, his subconscious has been trained to be so acute and alacritous that most of what the character desires comes into being immediately.
That answers your first question.
To answer your second question, part of the Science you are looking for is Quantum Mechanics, especially the Many Worlds interpretation. The other part of the Science you want is Doctor Wilhelm Reich's work on Orgone Energy.
Now mind you, the double slit experiment has been done a number of times, and there has been no experiment that refutes Wilhelm Reich's work; and several of his experiments have been repeated by others.
Sounds like the kind of in-game crap a psion might spout to justify his method of achieving power to be the 'true way' in the way that each of the the caster classes does that to some extent.
I did my best to present a one hour lecture on the Universal Laws of Life into one post and to make as simple to understand.
If you don't like it, perhaps I'm not the right one for you to convey this. Perhaps some mass media would work better for you? Perhaps the film Down the Rabbit Hole or What the Bleep Do We Know?
Well, there is an inner source of power in Indian myth - it's called tapas (heat) - and is the origin of the magic powers of the Yogis. It's also supposed to be very hard to attain, and tends to attract the unwanted attentions of the Gods, specifically Indra, who regulates access to magic, because sufficient tapas makes one autonomous from the Devas' authority. The Asuras are said to seek tapas specifically to overthrow the gods.
Also, btw, the powers granted by tapas - extreme ascetic practices - are granted by one of the Trimurti - the faces of Brahma or by Shakti, hence they have a supra-divine source. Of course, in Nondualism, Brahma is one's true self.
The other side of things is the meditative side of Buddhism and Jainism that also claims to impart supernatural power that is disconnected from a divine source. But I'm inclined to extend the Monk's Ki (Prana) powers to include these rather than use the Psionic rules - which with they share a point system, however.
Well, there is an inner source of power in Indian myth - it's called tapas (heat) - and is the origin of the magic powers of the Yogis. It's also supposed to be very hard to attain, and tends to attract the unwanted attentions of the Gods, specifically Indra, who regulates access to magic, because sufficient tapas makes one autonomous from the Devas' authority. The Asuras are said to seek tapas specifically to overthrow the gods.
Interesting.
The Great Sage was kicked out of India for preaching to the Vayshas and the Untouchables the truth about the Brahmins. This was probably one of the things that the Brahmins recognized as a threat to their power since that is simply not true.
How very interesting.
I had a thought a while ago on why clerics could wear metal armor and wizards couldn't back in the day;.....
the power for arcane magic flows from chakras; when it flows from there at the center of the torso to the arms to get magnified and/or focused by the hand gestures, the armor can tend to disrupt it;
divine magic, however, flows from without, and although it is also focused in the chakras, the flow of raw power isn't necessarily disrupted from wearing metal armor......
Sounds like the kind of in-game crap a psion might spout to justify his method of achieving power to be the 'true way' in the way that each of the the caster classes does that to some extent.I did my best to present a one hour lecture on the Universal Laws of Life into one post and to make as simple to understand.
If you don't like it, perhaps I'm not the right one for you to convey this. Perhaps some mass media would work better for you? Perhaps the film Down the Rabbit Hole or What the Bleep Do We Know?
I like it; I plan to read it when I'm not really sick as I am now, so I can dig it better.
The reviews on those works with headers like "science or sectarian mumbo jumbo? let me decide", "A film of profound dishonesty", "Feel-good movie for believers", "Bad mix of pseudo-science and pseudo-religion" and finally, "Idiotic." really tells me all I need to know about where this is going.Sounds like the kind of in-game crap a psion might spout to justify his method of achieving power to be the 'true way' in the way that each of the the caster classes does that to some extent.I did my best to present a one hour lecture on the Universal Laws of Life into one post and to make as simple to understand.
If you don't like it, perhaps I'm not the right one for you to convey this. Perhaps some mass media would work better for you? Perhaps the film Down the Rabbit Hole or What the Bleep Do We Know?
Yes, because as we all know, people generally know what they're talking about *rolls eyes*
I personally would love to see some Vudra products, since I actually found this post by googling "Vudra adventures" to see if there were any existing ones. I just got into Golarion a few days ago and so far, I'm very interested.
As for what Elton has been talking about, I am fairly familiar with the ideas of vibrations of the universe, that the universe is comprised of information and energy, and we live in a field of infinite possibilities, and can basically manifest whatever we are thinking of. There are several terms for these ideas that are akin to what he is talking about (Law of Attraction, spinozism, pantheism), people who teach these principals today (Deepak Chopra, Rhonda Byrne, Bob Proctor, and Esther Hicks) I've heard What the Bleep Do We Know is good, but I havent watched it. I have watched The Secret though.
I wish manifestation worked more quickly, or that I was more adapt at it. I've only just recently learned about it. But it has been working on some things so far.
Anyways, if they came out with a Vudra AP, I would definitely get it. I love Indian culture and mythology. My blog is called Chasing Saraswati, haha.
When you get to the point where you are ready to do a Gazetteer for Vudra, please get Jeff de Luna involved.
cool...what did you do in Lost Empires?
I'd love to see anything on Vudra, but the fact that psionics will be involved would make me not buy it
Are the vaati inspired by something from the Indian mythology?
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I'd love to see anything on Vudra, but the fact that psionics will be involved would make me not buy it
The impression I get is that it would involve psychic magic, not psionics per se. I.e., it would be based more on traditional and new age psychic beliefs rather than sci-fi psionics. If James Jacobs' opinion matters.
Are the vaati inspired by something from the Indian mythology?Are you referring to the Wind Dukes?
The Hindu spirit of wind is Vayu, also known as Vāta, so perhaps; the name is suggestive.
yes, this is great news for my Planescape campaign
Since we have to wait for psychic/psionic rules we more them likely will get stuff for Arcadia, Azlant,and more Tian Xia before we will get Vudra. Though since we will have mythic rules by the end of the year so Saurusan might be on the list as well.
although, to be honest, with mythic rules out of the way Psychic magic might be the next big rule set in high demand for them to cover.
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so has anything like this happen yet?