Monk feat dilemma


Advice


Hello all. My monk just got to 3rd level and I don't know which feat to select.We only use the core book and my feats so far are:

Improved Initiative, Improved Grapple, and Toughness.

My DM, for some reason, has ruled that unarmed attacks go after touch Armor Class and we don't use the standard or full attack actions. So my Monk is able to flurry against touch AC.

I was thinking about going for Power Attack but my monk already has an 18 strength and I don't really want to exploit my advantage any more than I already can. I was thinking weapon focus (unarmed) but touch is so easy to hit I don't think it's necessary. I thought about going for manuevers but it's hard to get them to work the way I want because of the DM's tendency to control the results.

Are there any feats that might just be fun to play around with? My monk is the scholarly type, especially fascinated with language. He also has a weird dance he likes to do, his patented Karate Dance. Any fun feats that might play on this?


I forgot to add Dodge to the list of feats already chosen.


Hmm so you are making up wacky houserules for unarmed strike but you are also limited to CRB only??? If you can get him to let you use UC, there's a lot of fun feats in there, particularly the style feats are really meant to make monks more interesting. Particularly Janni style is dance-themed.

If he's letting you flurry vs touch ac, hopefully that means the difficulty is also scaled up... so you might still consider standard weapon focus(unarmed) and power attack feats.


How common are archer enemies? Deflect Arrows is impressive if it comes up often, problem is it usually doesn't.


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Take Power Attack. Hopefully, seeing you smash your enemies into pudding will make your GM reconsider massively unbalancing house rules.


Power Attack all the way. Next level you'll get -2/+4 on your flurries.


Archers are pretty common. They're usually plot devices though, we rarely have a standard encounter with archers.

Weapon focus is a pre-requisite for dazzling display and that could be a lot of fun. The monk's name is Machoman and obviously he likes to wrestle. Dazzling display could throw in a WWF kind of feel.


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If you want to lean into the pro wrassler theme, you could pick up Catch Offguard and hit folks with chairs... useful if you're limited to a single attack for some reason (so you can maximize that decent str score).

but the fun doesn't stop with chairs. Hit them with a mug. Hit them with a rug.

Hit them with a stair. Or hit them with their own hair.

In a house with a dead mouse. Or in a box with a dead fox.

Wait.. what were we talking about?

Liberty's Edge

Mobility - bounce in and out of melee
Extra Ki - you know you want more Ki points
Combat Reflexes
Fleet - what's faster than a Monk? A Monk with Fleet!
Intimidating Prowess - if you already use Intimidate, add another +4 to it...
Skill Focus
Step Up - don't let those spellcasters retreat from you...


I urge you to convince your dm to not allow unarmed attacks to be against touch ac. You will end up being twice as powerful as any other character in the party, which will cause problems with the other players, not to mention what happens when your party encounters enemies who use unarmed strikes. (are natural attacks against touch ac also?)


And I disagree. The touch attacks rule might actually make monk balanced with the rest of the party, good for your DM!

For feats, I'd pick Deflect Arrows, Step Up, Power Attack, or Blind-Fight. Nothing else really seems worthwhile. Not sure you should do the intimidating thing; unless you have a much better charisma than most monks do. If core includes Bestiary I, Ability Focus (Stunning Fist) is alright.


Seriously? You believe monks to be so underpowered, that making every attack they make a touch attack would put them on par with, say, a fighter? Or wouldn't even make them as powerful as a fighter? You and I have very different assessments of the power of monks.


Depends on whether the opponents they face have lots of natural armor and worn armor, or have high AC due to high dexterity... high Dex enemies have good touch AC. Ooh, or monk enemies if they get the same bonus! Aha, that must surely be what the DM is planning! Dozens of monks! Lizardfolk monks, goblin monks, hobgoblin monks, werewolf monks, vanara monks (i.e. monkey monks), dragon monks, tough monks, sissy monks, monks that climb on rocks, tall monks, short monks, even monks with chickenpox!


Yeah, attacking vs. touch isn't "giving monks a little boost". It's "giving monks what appears to be, based on flipping randomly through bestiary pages, an average of about +6 to hit, up to +30 or more against some enemies." You're basically letting monks auto-hit anything that doesn't have a significant dexterity score or that is larger than you. That's just absurd.


At third level I'd take mobility. If it a bonus feat being debated.
I'd take power attack if it's a regular feat.

Step Up is also a really good choice, since as these folks have pointed out, you will be auto hitting everything by level 8. Nothing will stay adjacent to you in those circumstances.

Weapon Focus is a nice boost and the Dazzling display tree is pretty good for a Monk limited to core.

Also as an aside, your little house-rule makes The Scorpion Style tree much more attractive. Gorgon Fist would be a nice bonus feat at 6.

If you want to avoid overpowering the other Player's damage with Power Attack, look at Combat Expertise, it requires a high Int. score but you van afford to always be using it with that touch AC rule. This feat will help some as well against enemy monks if your DM allows it to affect your Touch AC.


Joyd wrote:
Yeah, attacking vs. touch isn't "giving monks a little boost". It's "giving monks what appears to be, based on flipping randomly through bestiary pages, an average of about +6 to hit, up to +30 or more against some enemies." You're basically letting monks auto-hit anything that doesn't have a significant dexterity score or that is larger than you. That's just absurd.

Agreed. Flat-Footed would actually make more sense than Touch. Considering Touch is bypassing a creature's natural armour, or worn armour it is hard to explain flavour-wise and is too over-powered as the levels increase.

Even Flat-footed is going to disadvantage creatures by 10+ points eventually which, while less overpowered, is still a major boost...


I'm sure with the time the touch AC rule will be amended. I don't think the DM had monks in mind when he decided to use it. I had een attacking normal AC for a couple sessions before I noticed his guys only had to hit a touch when they wanted to punch or kick us so I started doing it.

I have a decent charisma score, 14. I like the catch off guard, that could get to be really, really fun. The more I think about it the more I like it.

We don't use attacks of opportunity but we're going to start tweaking the feats that utilize AoOs so mobility is a decent option. I thought combat expertise would good as I'm intrigued with disarming and tripping. I recognized how powerful attacking touch AC is so I don't do direct attacks often. I prefer to run around the fight making trip attempts or grappling, or other stuff. We have 6 players total and 2 of them are fighters so I like to let them have their glory :)

Liberty's Edge

StreamOfTheSky wrote:
How common are archer enemies? Deflect Arrows is impressive if it comes up often, problem is it usually doesn't.

You can also deflect rays.


Mike Schneider wrote:
StreamOfTheSky wrote:
How common are archer enemies? Deflect Arrows is impressive if it comes up often, problem is it usually doesn't.
You can also deflect rays.

"ranged attacks generated by natural attacks or spell effects can't be deflected."

Rays from spells aren't effected by deflect arrows. I'm not sure what else can produce ray attacks.


If you really think the DM may suddenly change such a significant houserule sometime in the future, that raises some major red flags about him/her as a DM. (To be honest, the houserule itself already raises major red flags, and especially since you seemed only to learn about it from how the DM was running your enemies, rather than it actually being made explicit. I suspect the DM may either be playing fast and loose with the rules, or may simply be a little shaky on them).

But assuming the houserule stays the same, and assuming you want the most effective option over something more flavourful or fun, I'd definitely agree with others that you should get Power Attack. Since you'll easily be hitting a lot of your enemies due to the houserule, the penalty to hit doesn't hurt so bad, while the boost to damage will be considerable.

The Weapon Focus > Dazzling Display > Shatter Defences line of feats could be really good and flavourful for the pro wrestler schtick (assuming you can boost your Intimidate skill high enough), as making your opponents flat-footed means that even high Dex enemies are going to suffer badly to the "unarmed attacks are touch attacks" houserule. Less immediately gratifying for you though, as it will take some time and investment to pull off.

I also personally like Step Up quite a bit. Nothing scarier for most spellcasters or ranged attackers than not being able to 5 ft. step away to cast a spell or make an attack.

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