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Well to be honest, you're gonna be awful a lot longer then that.
First, the main focus of this build is totally useless against all undead, constructs, oozes,Plants, Vermin and REALLY hard to pull off on Animals. It's built around a skill check that you have as little better then a dump stat.
All of this for giving your opponent a -2 to attack roles and saving throws. A good back up trick but unless you dip into Rogue (thug) it's not a strong ability.
The rest of your tactics involve forcing will saves on your opponent with REALLY low DC spells (DC 12).
Hint, if you really just want Touch of Fatigue just burn a grand for a for a Cracked Orange Prism Ioun stone. It adds one 0-th level spell to your spell list.
Second Hint, Resistance doesn't stack with Cloaks of Resistance which everyone grabs asap, I'd re-think that.
As for Arcana, take Arcane Accuracy +4 to hit is amazing for a 3/4 Bab class who takes a -2 to hit every time he tries to really attack.
Honestly, you've tanked your will saves, your bonus spells, your arcane pool and chosen to focus on the weakest and easiest to ignore spells you have.
Good Luck.
Don't go with -8 STR, you won't be able to carry ANYTHING. That and you will be doing 1d6-1 damage until level 3... You don't need to play a character with both Dex and int, but for the love of all thats good don't put an 18 into any stats. It is just not worth it - 17 or 18 AFTER racial bonus should hold you fine. For example..
Human:
STR 10
DEX 16(+2 racial) = 18
CON 12
INT 16
WIS 8
CHA 10
having 12 charisma is totally overkill just to get +1 to your Intimidate... It's not worth the extra penalty to Will Saves, Perception, etc. If you really want more Dex, you can make Dex 19 at the cost of Int to 15.
For level 1 spells: Color spray color spray color spray. You will win all the battles vs anything it can affect. Shocking Grasp and Frostbite are good options too (Frostbite + Rime Spell couples VERY nicely with Enforcer).
Level 3 magus arcana: FAMILIAR. It's basically a free feat. Cover your weak spots with... +2 to any save (get your Will save back up), OR +4 initiative (compsom..something OP for sure), +3 to skill check, +1 to AC.. it's amazing. You don't even have to spend any pool points. Alternatively, go Hexcrafter and pick up something super awesome (Brew Potion, Flight...). Options are endless. Or go Black Blade and never worry about your weapon again. Then delay arcana choice until 6.
If you really want control/debuffs, take the Magic trait that treats a spell as -1 level for metamagic and pick Frostbite. Then take Rime spell. On a hit you will do Shaken, Entangle, and Fatigue. Profit. You can get all these feats by 5 (it's exactly what my magus is doing). Screw Shocking Grasp - no need to worry about damage when they can't hit you.
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Ya, enforcer is not useful against everything. I realize, but as an added on effect even at a low DC is kinda nice to spam.
Which is also how I'm justiying my low DC spam spells. Its i'm not relying on them landing, it just gives me somethings else to do while I'm doing a d6 of damage.
On average, when will a PFS character reach a grand to spend on such an item as that is a rather nice alternative.
Ya... I didn't really know what else to pick up with Spell Blending. I kinda assumed that by level 3 I wouldn't have enough cash to buy a resistance item as i would probably value a weapon higher (or possibly that Iuon stone). That and it was one the few cantrips that aren't already on the Magus spell list.
Isn't Arcane Accuracy horrible at low levels? At level 3 I'll have 3 arcane pool points. I think I'd rather use those give msyelf +1 enhancement bonus for the 3 combats than get a +4 for one attack.
Still, your best points:
No will save - ya got me there. I don't like this, but something needed to be tanked and enforcer seemed so fun.bonus spells - not really. a 14 gives me just as many as an 18 until we get to 3rd level spells which by then hopefully I can pick up an Int item.
Arcane Pool Points - agreed. I would love to have a LOT more so I can use a bunch of those 1 per attack types. But even if I didn't pick up an extra point or two I doubt I would use them differently until level 4 with spell recall which Extra Arcane Pool point feat is high on the considered list at level 5.
My focus was more or less to try and tack on as many debilitating effects I could find and hit with them every round. figuring odds are one of them will stick.
Other options I forgot to ask about. Any worth going 2 magus then 2 Alchemist for an extra arm to two-hand the scimitar to increase the melee damage output? Remember, too, I'm not to worried about how awesome my spellcasting is as opposed to my offensive output. (ya sure, there are probably simpler ways to dish out damage, but I think I enjoy tacking on...
Well lets do this in reverse. If your goal is to tack on as many debilitating status effects as you can then the best option is this:
Magical Lineage: Frostbite & Metamagic: Rime Spell & Arcana: Maneuver Mastery (trip).
Every time you cast this spell and attempt a Trip maneuver you can inflict Fatigue + Entangle + Prone on 2 different attempts every round.
This trick will stay relevant for the entire life of your PFS character and stacks nicely with taking Enforcer later for adding shaken (or frightened if you dip into rogue).
As for Multiclassing, Alchemist is fine (vivisectionist is best) for upping DPR but if you only want an additional hand then I would recommend going Hexcrafter Magus instead and taking prehensile hair at 4th.
HOWEVER, since status effects are what you're after I would recommend a 2 level dip into Witch (white haired witch) instead. That archetype mixed with the above tricks will let you apply:
Grappled, Fatigued, Prone, Entangled, Shaken AND move them into flanked position with an ally twice a round every round by 6th level.
Mix that with the Hexcrafter archetype and you get to keep all the best hexes from the witch class too while ignoring those arcana you don't like.
Your arcane pool is low which should let you know your Dex is TOO HIGH. A Magus without spells or arcane points is a crappy rogue without sneak attack. Drop your Dex to 18 & Chr to 10 and stuff those points into Int and get your Wis modifier out of the negatives.
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Like others have said, balance in stats is more important than a single 18. Assuming 20 point-buy, this is my favourite dervish dance magus build:
Elf Magus (after racials)
Str 13, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 9, Cha 7
The reason for 13 strength is two-fold; one, you have a respectable carrying capacity, and two you're eligible to grab power attack at level 5.
I would go full magus for the sake of spell progression and BAB. Alchemist and etc. may be tempting, but I would still shy away.
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Rime spell does nothing for ray of frost don't bother trying.
Natural attacks and iterative attacks have special rules on how they interact, read the Natural Attack section from the bestiary to understand it. But mostly you get 1 extra attack per round from the hair and IF you took prehensile hair it wouldn't give you an additional attack it would just make your normal hair prehensile (the white witch archetype's hair is NOT prehensile normally).
As for spell combat/spellstrike, yes the penalty will apply to every attack you make that round, no matter what weapon you use.
Finally doing so you'd have a Bab of 4 and all your abilities would be so weak you couldn't kill a goblin in fight.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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A laser-focused PC can be a trap in PFS organized play. You want your capabilities to be a tad more diversified: one or two main schticks that you're pretty good at, a couple more that you're reasonably competent with, and be at least mediocre at most other stuff, with not more than a couple of achilles' heels.
Here are some situations I've either been in as a player or put forth as the GM in PFS:
• PC dragged to the bottom of a river in the mouth of a giant crocodile
• Swallowed whole by a gibbering mouther
• Swept off the side of a ship by a rogue wave in a storm
• Had to catch a werewolf before he reached/killed an NPC (using chase rules)
• Had to fight creatures that could use darkness or invisibility at will
• Had to climb down a 150ft cliff face while being fly-by attacked by harpies
• Had to find the MacGuffin (like a million times)
The list goes on. If you have a stat above 18 at level 1, you're too narrow for PFS. Those are the characters that die - they get into a situation they're not suited for, can't cope, and it's over.
4 Magus(Hexcrafter)/1 Witch(White-Haired)/2 Alchemist(Vivisectionist)/1 Rogue(Thug)Think my BAB might cry. lol Wonder if its better to simply go str based at that point though... I may be outside the realm of this thread alone...
I'm starting to think this might be your first serious Pathfinder character.
One of the BIG differences between 3.5 and PF is that taking a single class is much more powerful than the cherry-picking game that was 3.5.The build you have listed... has THREE spellcasting classes, none full BAB, none that have strong reasons to take all together. A one or two dip into WH-Witch or Vivisectionist could be argued is really useful...
But compared to a level 8 magus? You gain 2 BAB, 4 HP or skill points(favored class), 1 hp (compared to d6 HD witch), plus an extra arcana, 3rd level spells, medium armor casting, Bonus Feat, Knowledge Pool, and Imp. Spell Combat (not taking into consideration any archetypes).
Do all the extra abilities really beat out on 2 BAB and 3rd level spells AND bonus feat? The rest to me just seems like icing on the cake.
If you really really want to multiclass, go 2 levels max. Otherwise you will lose sight of what your character is trying to do and find yourself far behind other melee characters (which at the end of the day is exactly what you are).
Edit: not to mention the loss of Caster level for your main class, which will mean your Shocking Grasp (or spell of choice) will only do 4d6, compared to the 8d6 all other Magi are doing at that level.
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Assuming 20 point-buy, this is my favourite dervish dance magus build:
Elf Magus (after racials)
Str 13, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 9, Cha 7
so before racials
str 13 (3)dex 16 (10)
con 14 (5)
int 14 (5)
wis 9 (-1)
char 7 (-4)
That's an 18 point buy, if you put charisma back up to 8 or wisdom to 11 you have 20 points
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2 Alchemist is merely there for the 1d6 sneak attack and an extra arm so I can get 1.5 Dex to damage
Dervish Dance doesn't work like that. First line from Dervish Dance.
When wielding a scimitar with one hand, you can use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on melee attack and damage rolls.
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Assuming 20 point-buy, this is my favourite dervish dance magus build:
Elf Magus (after racials)
Str 13, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 9, Cha 7
so before racials
str 13 (3)
dex 16 (10)
con 14 (5)
int 14 (5)
wis 9 (-1)
char 7 (-4)That's an 18 point buy, if you put charisma back up to 8 or wisdom to 11 you have 20 points
Whoops, you are correct.
However, I have a few questions. On a 5 Magus/1 Witch.1. For feats, I plan on having Finesse and Enforcer at level 1, Dervish Dance at 3, and Rime Spell at level 5. I have one other at 5 and would get one soon at 7. I'm thinking at Agile Maneavurs and Combat Reflexes (to take advantage of that 10 foot reach from the hair).
Suggestions on which one I should take first? (or at all for that matter)
You can't use Combat Reflexes with your Prehensile Hair Hex, as it's a secondary attack and can't make AoOs. If you take White Hair witch you only have 5 foot reach with it until Witch4.
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Well, casting defensively... bleh. What a wierd mechanic. Virtually impossible at low levels to be reliant, and if you sure up that aweful percentage it becomes worthless at certain tipping points.
You're roughly playing levels 1 through 12. You can find the sweet spot there, but you have to plan for it.
Trust me as a magus you will wish to cast shocking grasp via spell combat in the thick of it.
Likewise you will get jumped at some point and being able to get off that mirror image or the like will be worthwhile.
As to taking the AOO.. now you've taken damage and need to make a worse concentration check! Gambling for them to miss vs you making the roll to begin with.. it's normally a sucker's bet.
-James
Ya... I'm sure there be at least one time when I can't "back off" to cast a needed spell. I may be a very sad panda that day.
As for the AoO... I dunno, I'd only consider it after the I know the facts. If the target needs to roll an 18+ to hit me I may just risk on a cantrip rather than lose the cantrip when I didn't have to. And for a less expendable spell I probably wouldn't even consider it unless they needed to roll a 20. I'm a gambler sometimes... what can I say ;).
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On to better news... after coming into the knowledge of what Frostbite actually does... I think I'll take that White-Hair witch dip with 5 Magus hexcrafter levels.However, I have a few questions. On a 5 Magus/1 Witch.
1. For feats, I plan on having Finesse and Enforcer at level 1, Dervish Dance at 3, and Rime Spell at level 5. I have one other at 5 and would get one soon at 7. I'm thinking at Agile Maneavurs and Combat Reflexes (to take advantage of that 10 foot reach from the hair).
Suggestions on which one I should take first? (or at all for that matter)
2. If my hair is grappling, can it deliever my extra touches from Frostbite (it may not even have a choice) so I can continue to spell combat with cantrips? Even if I orignally spellstriked it through the scimitar?
I guess I get myself all confused when it comes to having a trip+grapple (at least it sounds like if I trip I get free grapple check) attack without being grappled myself.
I may need to be told exactly what I can and can't do with my white and prehensile hair at this point... Just want to make sure I'm using this seemingly awesome trick right.
3. For Magic Arcana, with this direction, should I be taking the Maneauvers arcana at 3rd and 6th magus level (one each for trip and grapple)? Or if the extra frostbite touches can be delivered via my hair would it be worth it to take close arcana so I can use Flare in melee?
Might be cool to add Dazzled on top of Fatigued, Shaken, Grappled, Entangled and Prone.
4. Familiars, (this might answer question 3). +2 to CMB or Will Saves (or +1 AC)? And do i need to take the Familiar magic arcana to stack my Magus and Witch levels for the little guy?
Thanks for the all the help guys. You're really doin me a solid. Its a lot of info to take in and bad/old info+my inability to understand/remeber effects/rules+my desire to do cool tricks has turned this into quite a project for me. Your guiding hands are helping out big time.
First things first...
1. Take Rime Spell and Weapon finesse at 1st level. The point of this trick is to come out of the door blazing, putting your biggest trick off until halfway through your players life is a mistake. The idea here is at first level you are stacking sick debuffs on everything you meet.
2. No it can't. Your hair only gets one attack per round (or 2 if you use spell combat and designate the hair as delivering the free touch/spellstrike). Spellstrike specifically states it can be channelled through ANY weapon, as long as you have charges left you can deliver them with every weapon you can legally use that round.
Also if you cast ANY spell while still having charges left you lose all those charges.
3. Only take maneuver mastery (trip) at 3rd level. The white witch archetype does screwy things with grapple and it's not necessary to do anything else to affect it. NEVER take the close range arcana, it's a waste. The only arcana you will ever want are maneuver mastery trip, arcane accuracy and the Haste arcana. Everything else should be spent picking up extra hexes.
4. Take the King Crab familiar on your witch side (+3 to grapple and free alertness feat) put it in a bucket and forget about it. It will never get past 3rd level and you won't use it for anything else.
Now some extra info;
Read the rules on natural attacks, then read them again. This is the heart of your build and if you don't understand them you WILL be hosed.
And go read Gricks post in the advice forum on spellcombat, you will definately need to explain it to your GM and it never hurts to make sure you know how it works yourself.
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However, I have a few questions. On a 5 Magus/1 Witch.1. For feats, I plan on having Finesse and Enforcer at level 1, Dervish Dance at 3, and Rime Spell at level 5. I have one other at 5 and would get one soon at 7. I'm thinking at Agile Maneavurs and Combat Reflexes (to take advantage of that 10 foot reach from the hair).
Suggestions on which one I should take first? (or at all for that matter)
You can't use Combat Reflexes with your Prehensile Hair Hex, as it's a secondary attack and can't make AoOs. If you take White Hair witch you only have 5 foot reach with it until Witch4.
If you are going to comment on a thread please make sure you've read it and have some clue about what we are talking about. You are WAY WAY wrong on everything you just wrote.
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1. You COULD put Rime spell off till third but I wouldn't. At 1st level it is only 1 round per cast but at that level of play it's usually an auto-kill for whoever gets hit by it. (you aren't playing in a vacuum and EVERY other player will love having a full round to just beat on the helpless critter)
the real point of builds like this is to make your life easier by making EVERYONE else in the party that much more powerful. De-buff builds are support builds, this just benefits you slightly more than usual.
3. Go for it, it's never a bad thing to have you just need to find a place to put it in.
5. Yeah, you have picked the two most complicated, controversial and conflicted abilities in the game (currently) to specialize on. You better learn them backwards and forwards since most GM's won't have them down pat yet.
Finally, I don't envy you, having to choose between getting a reach attack and magical lineage is a HARD choice.
Stat block 4 is good, although I would go with 8 wis and 10 cha... Wis is too important to drop that low. Will save and perception should be enough to dissuade you. What about the RP consequences? Your character would be very rash and likely get himself into some trouble.
And yeah, I guess I was wrong about the AoO. Still adjusting to PF rules :)
I strongly advocate never dropping a stat below 8 if possible. But if you're going to dump, dump like you've had a buffet of Ex-Lax.
How about this one:
Dwarven Magus:
STR 14 [5], DEX 12 [2], CON 14+2 [5], INT 15 [7], WIS 14+2 [5], CHA 7-2 [-4]
You'll fight with a Dwarven Waraxe - 1d10 20/x3. And spell combat.
Do the Witch dip and re-skin the hair as a beard that's prehensile if you want.
Final stat array: 14, 12, 16, 15, 16, 5.
One of your initial spells known should be Expeditious Retreat. The other should be Shocking Grasp. I happen to like Burning Disarm.
Your Aid Another: Diplomacy is keeping your mouth shut and keeping your beard-tentacles from grabbing rats for you to eat while you're distracted...
The magus' real strength comes from having a high crit range weapon, Since spells can crit too. 1d10 damage/x3 is nothing compared to 1d6 or 1d8 with 18-20/x2 :P
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Stat block 4 is good, although I would go with 8 wis and 10 cha... Wis is too important to drop that low. Will save and perception should be enough to dissuade you. What about the RP consequences? Your character would be very rash and likely get himself into some trouble.A decently intellignt character who presents his/her arugments relatively well but doesn't know when to shut up? I think I can relate. ;)
+1 wisdom modifier is somehow not really gonna help my perception much. Its not a class skill for either class. This is more or less the thing I'm bad at. Unless I go out of my way to gain perception I'm just gonna be suprised.
Will save... ya that sucks, but to help both Magus and Witch have a good base will save. I'm more or less ok with relying on that. I'm not happy, but... I rather be a little more on the social side especially considering I'm likely to gain more from putting effort into intimidate/charisma than I am perception/wisdom.
EDIT: And not just me! My whole party can thanks to enforcer :)
Tank the charisma not the Wisdom.
Yes I know you want to be more on the social side but it's a LOT easier and cheaper to up your charisma modifier the then your wisdom modifier.
A 7 charisma gives you a -2 on your charisma skill based checks. At 3rd level you spend 4500 gold on a circlet of persuasion that gives you a +3 (effectively a +6 to your Charisma) on all Cha based skill checks. It DOES NOT occupy the same spot as your headband of Int.
Charisma is a dump stat for nearly every martial class for just this reason.
The +1 modifier on wisdom is not there to fix anything, the goal is to avoid as many penalties as possible and since the majority of save or suck spells are will based tanking that stat WILL really suck for you constantly.
The fact that Will Saves are "Save or Suck" is why that Dwarven Magus has a WIS of 16. On top of it being a Good save, on top of the Dwarven +2 versus Spells. I LIKE having a +12 or so Will Save by the time we get to NPCs using Save or Suck spells.
And yes, I know, higher crit threat ranges are "the norm" for a Magus. I figure that with 1d10+2 x3, critting with the spell AS WELL is just likely overkill.
So, how do you play a Dwarven Magus with a 5 CHA? :)
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And yes, I know, higher crit threat ranges are "the norm" for a Magus. I figure that with 1d10+2 x3, critting with the spell AS WELL is just likely overkill.
just remember that with spell strike you only use the weapons threat range, not the modifier
I'd say
18/14/12/14/12/7
go Half Elf, start with 1 lv.Barbarian, swap the Adaptability racial trait for proficiency with falcata. Take power attack at lv. one. Magus continues for 19 levels. Beatings abound.
Why Barbarian? i can understand that you want power attack, but you'd be better off going fighter IMHO, you can't cast while raging, so sticking your first level in fighter will grant you a total of 2 HP less, but you gain a feat, really want that extra life? Get toughness, you'll end up with more life.
And yes, I know, higher crit threat ranges are "the norm" for a Magus. I figure that with 1d10+2 x3, critting with the spell AS WELL is just likely overkill.just remember that with spell strike you only use the weapons threat range, not the modifier
Yep! I'm wagering that getting 1d10+2+ND6 Electricity is enough damage that getting crits isn't something I need to plan for.
For feats, I'd take Magical Lineage [Shocking Grasp] and likely Reach Spell. At 5th, I'd take Intensify Spell.
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Giving up all of my spellcasting ability? Really? It just doesn't manifest till level 2....You know, like all those Dervish builds that don't manifest till lv. 3.... Except that this guy is an effective lv. 1 character as well.
You do know that YOU CAN'T CAST SPELLS WHILE RAGING right? Every time you get that +2/+2 you are giving up all ability to cast spells while you have it. Seems wasteful to me.
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dang post monster:
Every time you exit rage you are fatigued and take a -2 to Str & Dex for twice as long as you raged, so you cripple your combat ability for a +2 to 1 or 2 attacks a round.
This trick is just bad for any fight that lasts longer then a single round.
Edit: also, since I didn't want to clutter up Walters post the Falcata is a HORRIBLE weapon for most Magi. It's got a smaller crit range, is exotic (wasting either a feat or a sub-optimal race choice) and can't be used to Dervish dance. It's just a horrible weapon.
@adastraGames, the dwarf will be lucky to average (at max level) 30 pts of damage off that shock and 40ish pts of damage for the whole round. This puts you well behind every other martial character in the game.
Fish for the crits, use a different weapon.