After a bit of searching, I did not find anything that attempts to model summon undead after the summon monster/nature's ally series. So, I made a first pass at my own.
My goal for this is pretty simple, just a set of spells for sorcerers, wizards, clerics etc... However, I do have a secondary goal. I'm working through an idea to increase the summoner's versatility by changing the summon powers. If the summon monsters could be switched out for summon undead abilities, I think the summoner would be well on her way to being a necromancer.
Anyway, comments or guidance would be appreciated.
Summon Undead 1-9 (from Bestiary 1 and 2 and their templates)
• Summon undead 1 (CR up to 1)
o human skeleton (fighter 2) *
o human zombie (fighter 2) *
o crawling hand
o human plague zombie (fighter 1) *
o human fast zombie (fighter 1) *
o ghoul
• Summon undead 2 (CR 1 - 2)
o human skeletal (fighter 3) *
o human skeleton (wizard 3) *
o draugr
o juju zombie
o human burning skeleton (fighter 2) *
o human bloody skeleton (fighter 2) *
• Summon undead 3 (CR 2 – 3)
o Shadow
o Wight
o ghast (advanced ghoul)
o draugr champion
o poltergeist
o human zombie (fighter 7) *
o human fast zombie (fighter 6) *
o human plague zombie (fighter 6) *
• Summon Undead 4 (CR 4 – 5)
o Mummy
o attic whisperer
o skaveling bat
o human skeleton (fighter 8) *
o human skeleton (wizard 8)*
o human burning skeleton (fighter 7) *
o human bloody skeleton (fighter 7) *
• Summon Undead 5 (CR 5 – 6)
o giant crawling hand
o wraith
o crypt thing
o revenant
o human zombie (fighter 10) *
o human fast zombie (fighter 9) *
o human plague zombie (fighter 9) *
• Summon Undead 6 (CR 7 – 8)
o ghost aristocrat
o greater shadow
o Mohrg
o Spectre
o Bodak
o Dullahan
o totenmaske
• Summon Undead 7 (CR 9 – 10)
o Human vampire (wizard 8) *
o Human vampire (fighter 8) *
o witchfire
o ghost hill giant
• Summon Undead 8 (CR 11 – 12)
o Devourer
o lich (wizard 10) *
o human vampire (wizard 10) *
o human vampire (fighter 10) *
• Summon Undead 9 (CR 13– 14)
o dread wraith
o Banshee
o nightwing (nightshade)
o human vampire (wizard 12) *
o human lich (wizard 12) *
o human vampire (fighter 12) *
* Will have to pre-generate statistics for these things. Otherwise, players will get to double optimize and create a truly powerful monster. These are actually templates applied to a creature.
dot for later, quick look only thing that pops out is the level 10 lich, I believe one must be 11 before that. Otherwise looks good
Hmmmm..., this is intriguing as a class feature for Necromancers. Perhaps an alternative to standard Specialist fare or a Summoner (of Undead) variant...
I like it ;) Yeah the lich is an issue.
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After a bit of searching, I did not find anything that attempts to model summon undead after the summon monster/nature's ally series. So, I made a first pass at my own.
My goal for this is pretty simple, just a set of spells for sorcerers, wizards, clerics etc... However, I do have a secondary goal. I'm working through an idea to increase the summoner's versatility by changing the summon powers. If the summon monsters could be switched out for summon undead abilities, I think the summoner would be well on her way to being a necromancer.
Anyway, comments or guidance would be appreciated.
Summon Undead 1-9 (from Bestiary 1 and 2 and their templates)
• Summon undead 1 (CR up to 1)
o human skeleton (fighter 2) *
o human zombie (fighter 2) *
o crawling hand
o human plague zombie (fighter 1) *
o human fast zombie (fighter 1) *
o ghoul• Summon undead 2 (CR 1 - 2)
o human skeletal (fighter 3) *
o human skeleton (wizard 3) *
o draugr
o juju zombie
o human burning skeleton (fighter 2) *
o human bloody skeleton (fighter 2) *• Summon undead 3 (CR 2 – 3)
o Shadow
o Wight
o ghast (advanced ghoul)
o draugr champion
o poltergeist
o human zombie (fighter 7) *
o human fast zombie (fighter 6) *
o human plague zombie (fighter 6) *• Summon Undead 4 (CR 4 – 5)
o Mummy
o attic whisperer
o skaveling bat
o human skeleton (fighter 8) *
o human skeleton (wizard 8)*
o human burning skeleton (fighter 7) *
o human bloody skeleton (fighter 7) *• Summon Undead 5 (CR 5 – 6)
o giant crawling hand
o wraith
o crypt thing
o revenant
o human zombie (fighter 10) *
o human fast zombie (fighter 9) *
o human plague zombie (fighter 9) *• Summon Undead 6 (CR 7 – 8)
o ghost aristocrat
o greater shadow
o Mohrg
o Spectre
o Bodak
o Dullahan
o totenmaske• Summon Undead 7 (CR 9 – 10)
o Human vampire (wizard 8) *
o Human vampire (fighter 8) *
o witchfire
o ghost hill giant• Summon Undead 8 (CR 11 – 12)
o Devourer
o lich (wizard 10) *
o human vampire (wizard 10) *
o human...
The only real issue I see with this is that a human skeleton or zombie loses all of its hit die from class levels (and all of its abilities) and so therefore the Human Zombie (fighter 7) shown under Summon Undead 3 is actually the exact same as the Human Zombie (fighter 2) under Summon Undead 1. The way to rectify this is to make all of the skeletons above Summon Undead 1 into Skeletal champions, and all the zombies Zombie Lords. They keep their classes and abilities.
I wrote an article (partially) about this in KQ #7.
Thanks everyone.
I missed the part about class dice and the skeletal champion. I will have to adjust things slightly and re-post. I will also look into the lich. Appears I missed something there as well.
However, I can't find a reference to the Zombie Lord in the PRD. Does anyone have a reference handy?
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Thanks everyone.
I missed the part about class dice and the skeletal champion. I will have to adjust things slightly and re-post. I will also look into the lich. Appears I missed something there as well.
However, I can't find a reference to the Zombie Lord in the PRD. Does anyone have a reference handy?
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/zombie-lord
Thank you!
Version 1.1
Corrected for skeletal champion ans zombie lord.
Removed level 10 lich
Add select bestiary 3 undead (there are more asian and high CR undead)
Summon Undead I-IX (from Bestiary 1, 2, and 3 creatures and templates)
Summon undead I (CR up to 1)
o crawling hand
o festrog
o ghoul
o human fast zombie
o human plague zombie
o human skeleton
o human zombie
Summon undead II (CR 1 - 2)
o draugr
o huecuva
o human bloody skeleton
o human burning skeleton
o human skeletal champion (fighter 2) *
o human skeletal champion (wizard 2) *
o juju zombie
Summon undead III (CR 2 – 3)
o allip
o draugr champion
o ghast (advanced ghoul)
o human fast zombie lord (fighter 5) *,**, ***
o human plague zombie lord (fighter 5) *,**, ***
o human zombie lord (fighter 6) *,**
o poltergeist
o shadow
o wight
Summon Undead IV (CR 4 – 5)
o attic whisperer
o ghul
o human bloody skeletal champion (fighter 7) *, ***
o human burning skeletal champion (fighter 7) *, ***
o human skeletal champion (fighter 8) *
o human skeletal champion (wizard 8)*
o mummy
o skaveling bat
o zuvembie
Summon Undead V (CR 5 – 6)
o berbalang
o crypt thing
o deathweb
o giant crawling hand
o human fast zombie (fighter 9) *, **, ***
o human plague zombie (fighter 9) *, **, ***
o human zombie lord (fighter 10) *, **
o revenant
o wraith
Summon Undead VI (CR 7 – 8)
o bodak
o bone golem
o dullahan
o ghost aristocrat
o greater shadow
o mohrg
o spectre
o totenmaske
Summon Undead VII (CR 9 – 10)
o baykok
o ghost hill giant
o Human vampire (fighter 8) *
o Human vampire (wizard 8) *
o pale stranger
o witchfire
Summon Undead VIII (CR 11 – 12)
o devourer
o graveknight
o human vampire (fighter 10) *
o human vampire (wizard 10) *
Summon Undead IX (CR 13– 14)
o banshee
o demilich
o dread wraith
o human lich (wizard 12) *
o human vampire (fighter 12) *
o human vampire (wizard 12) *
o nightwing (nightshade)
* Will have to pre-generate statistics for these things. Otherwise, players will get to double optimize and create a truly powerful monster. These are actually templates applied to a creature.
** Zombie lords are similar to skeletal champions in that they retain class hit dice and abilities, unlike a normal zombie.
*** Multiple templates applied. The first is the skeletal champion or zombie lord. Then an additional variant template is applied as well.
Far too much flexibility available with class levels on monster template for summoning - this would never get past initial review at PF.
The list needs to be without such inclusions to work like the summon monster and summon nature's ally spells.
Far too much flexibility available with class levels on monster template for summoning - this would never get past initial review at PF.
The list needs to be without such inclusions to work like the summon monster and summon nature's ally spells.
Fair enough. But, after another pass you don't really even need templated classes anymore. There is still a weak spot around CD 11 and 12 though.
=========================================
Version 1.2
removed skeletons, zombies, and vampires that were templates on top of class levels and not specifically set out in bestiary 1, 2, or 3.
=========================================
Summon undead I (CR up to 1)
crawling hand
ghoul
human fast zombie
human plague zombie
human skeleton
human zombie
Summon undead II (CR 1 - 2)
draugr
huecuva
human bloody skeleton
human burning skeleton
juju zombie
Summon undead III (CR 2 – 3)
allip
draugr champion
ghast (advanced ghoul)
poltergeist
Shadow
wight
Summon Undead IV (CR 4 – 5)
attic whisperer
ghul
Mummy
skaveling bat
zuvembie
Summon Undead V (CR 5 – 6)
crypt thing
deathweb
giant crawling hand
revenant
wraith
Summon Undead VI (CR 7 – 8)
Bodak
bone golem
ghost aristocrat
greater shadow
spectre
Summon Undead VII (CR 9 – 10)
baykok
ghost hill giant
pale stranger
witchfire
vampire (sorcerer 8)
Summon Undead VIII (CR 11 – 12)
devourer
graveknight
lich (human necromancer 11)
Summon Undead IX (CR 13– 14)
Banshee
demilich
dread wraith
nightwing (nightshade)
=========================================
Add the Fiendish Template and they become Outsiders. It's not hard to imagine Undead in the Abyss or Hell.
So how does it work? Do they need dead bodies around to animate or do they just appear through a portal, or is it something even cheesier like they crawl out of the ground, even if there weren't any graves?
I will leave that to interpretation honestly. How does summon monster and ally work in your campaign? If it is a puff of smoke and the animal appears, then summon undead could work the same way. If they are ripped from another dimension or another place in the world, then summon undead could work the same as well. I guess you could even go as far as saying the caster has a spell component, some fragment of an undead, and can use that as a focus. Those are some off the cuff ideas.
Add the Fiendish Template and they become Outsiders. It's not hard to imagine Undead in the Abyss or Hell.
Good thought. That could help smooth out the gap at CR 11 or 12. This particular endeavor has spawn another idea. I want to toy with a Summon demon I- IX. But, summon monster already contains many demons and fiendish creatures.
Here is the Summon Monster levels with the CR of the monsters on the lists.
CR 1/2
Summon Monster II
CR 1
Summon Monster III
CR 2
Summon Monster IV
CR 3
CR 4
Summon Monster V
CR 5
CR 6
Summon Monster VI
CR 7
CR 8
Summon Monster VII
CR 9
CR 10
Summon Monster VIII
CR 11
Summon Monster IX
CR 12
CR 14
So how does it work? Do they need dead bodies around to animate or do they just appear through a portal, or is it something even cheesier like they crawl out of the ground, even if there weren't any graves?I will leave that to interpretation honestly. How does summon monster and ally work in your campaign? If it is a puff of smoke and the animal appears, then summon undead could work the same way. If they are ripped from another dimension or another place in the world, then summon undead could work the same as well. I guess you could even go as far as saying the caster has a spell component, some fragment of an undead, and can use that as a focus. Those are some off the cuff ideas.
Add the Fiendish Template and they become Outsiders. It's not hard to imagine Undead in the Abyss or Hell.Good thought. That could help smooth out the gap at CR 11 or 12. This particular endeavor has spawn another idea. I want to toy with a Summon demon I- IX. But, summon monster already contains many demons and fiendish creatures.
I would welcome various 'outsider' summon lists - it has always seemed thematically poor to have the summon monster list as is - it is too general and kind of all over the place.
What do you think of this?
Summon Fiend I (CR 1/2)
Fiendish Dire Rat
Fiendish Viper
Fiendish Ghost Scorpion
Summon Fiend II (CR 1)
Lemure (devil)
Fiendish Giant Fly
Fiendish Cave Scorpion
Summon Fiend III (CR 2)
Dretch
Cacodaemon (daemon)
Doru (div)
Summon Fiend IV (CR 3-4)
Hell Hound
Accuser Devil (Zebub)
Schir (demon)
Summon Fiend V (CR 5-6)
Babau (demon)
Bearded Devil
Cerberi
Summon Fiend VI (CR 7-8)
Erinyes (devil)
Hellcat
Adhukait (asura)
Summon Fiend VII (CR 9-10)
Bone Devil
Vrock (demon)
Leukodaemon (daemon)
Summon Fiend VIII (CR 11)
Barbed Devil
Hezrou (demon)
Meladaemon (daemon)
Summon Fiend IX (CR 12-14)
Glabrezu (demon)
Ice Devil
Nalfeshnee (demon)
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Version 1.3
adjusted list to match CRs of Summon Monster
============================================
Summon undead I (CR up to 1/2)
• crawling hand
• human bloody skeleton
• human burning skeleton
• human fast zombie
• human plague zombie
• human skeleton
• human zombie
Summon undead II (CR 1)
• ghoul
• wolf burning skeleton
• wolf bloody skeleton
• wolf fast zombie
• wolf plague zombie
• wolf skeleton
• wolf zombie
Summon undead III (CR 2)
• draugr
• ghast (advanced ghoul)
• huecuva
• juju zombie
• poltergeist
Summon Undead IV (CR 3-4)
• allip
• attic whisperer
• shadow
• wight
• zuvembie
Summon Undead V (CR 5 – 6)
• berbalang
• crypt thing
• deathweb
• ghul
• giant crawling hand
• mummy
• revenant
• skaveling bat
• wraith
Summon Undead VI (CR 7 – 8)
• Bodak
• bone golem (technically a construct)
• ghost aristocrat
• greater shadow
• guecubu
• spectre
Summon Undead VII (CR 9 – 10)
• baykok
• witchfire
• vampire (sorcerer 8)
Summon Undead VIII (CR 11)
• devourer
• graveknight
Summon Undead IX (CR 12 - 14)
• banshee
• lich (human necromancer 11)
• nightwing (nightshade)
============================================
I would welcome various 'outsider' summon lists - it has always seemed thematically poor to have the summon monster list as is - it is too general and kind of all over the place.
I like the list.
The main problem I ran into is this: what would a summon demon or summon outsider list look like? And, how would it not turn into a subset of summon monster?
If it is demon only, do devils and fiendish outsiders count as well? If it is outsider, then demons, angels, devils, and many other things qualify as well. The list here appears to be something akin to summon evil =) (not that i'm complaining).
I would welcome various 'outsider' summon lists - it has always seemed thematically poor to have the summon monster list as is - it is too general and kind of all over the place.I like the list.
The main problem I ran into is this: what would a summon demon or summon outsider list look like? And, how would it not turn into a subset of summon monster?
If it is demon only, do devils and fiendish outsiders count as well? If it is outsider, then demons, angels, devils, and many other things qualify as well. The list here appears to be something akin to summon evil =) (not that i'm complaining).
Yeah that's why it's called Summon Fiend - it summons evil outsiders.
I kept the choice to three per level though - too much flexibility makes summoning OP.
I will think about an 'angelic' list, an 'eidolon' and an 'elemental' type list next week when I have some time. I actually may have them replace SM in my campaign - like I said, I think thematically these would be much stronger.
As someone who plays Master Summoners (a lot) and almost exclusively summons elementals when I do, I would be a big fan of creating separate, themed MS lists and using them as Archetypes variants, similar to the Oathbound Paladins. You really wouldn't need to tweak the class itself, just the lists. Figure you include 3 monsters at each level themed specifically along the lines of Necromancer, Demons, Devils, Archons, Elementals, Aquatic, Avian, Insect, Humanoid, Aberrant, Animal and Fey to name a dozen.
This is a really good idea, selecting which list you wish to use when you start play and building your character concept around that theme. I'm going to have to work on this.
Dotting
I just spent the first part of the morning putting together a first run of the Aberration, Construct, Fey and Elemental Summoning lists 1-9. I have to say its looking very promising as an option - I'm going to play with some more, specifically Plant, Undead, Outsider (LE), Outsider (CE), Outsider (Good) and Undead. I'd like to do Vermin and Humanoid as well and possibly Avian, Aquatic and Subterranean though those might end up being tricky... might had to start putting in some fearsome swarms for Vermin's higher echelon Summons. So far the most difficult part is not using any 3PP creatures to fill out the rolls (I'm assigning 2-3 CR appropriate creatures per level and trying to give a nice spread of abilities/environments like flyers, aquatic, etc.).
At first glance this seems almost ideally suited to Summoners and its Archetypes as I'm not sure how you would restrict standard casters to one list or the other. I suppose you could make them different spells (Summon Construct II, Summon Fey VI, etc.) but that might be more cumbersome than some would wish. We'll see how it goes - I'll probably start a new thread when I'm done rather than utterly hijack this one.
EDIT: Vermin list coming along surprisingly well.
Love the idea. Mechanically, and to a lesser extent thematically, summoning undead bothers me somewhat because it really has to be a conjuration school spell (which is arguably the most versatile school already). The thematic issue is that the summon monster list is entirely composed of extraplanar creatures, which you summon from another plane. Now this is really minor and the quick and easy fix is to say that there is a plane of undeath (or just use the plane of shadow or negative energy plane) from which you summon your undead minions. Honestly that's all fluff though.
It does bring up other ideas for summon monster lists though. How about rather than focusing the list on a type of creature, you focus on a plane you summon from? So if you are tied to the elemental plane of fire you can summon fire elements, efreet (sans wish), fire/magma mephits, thoqqqua, rasts, and azers. Templates make it easy to fill out lists for planes that have an alignment quality (celestial/entropic/fiendish/resolute) and elementals/mephits help fill out lists for planes with a focus on elements.
I think that makes a lot of sense thematically as well.
Easier method? Spell level x2 in CR which can be summoned (with DM permission). Usable for Natures Ally, Summon Monster, Summon Undead, Summon Blonde bimbo's for your party, whatever. This would allow for higher level versions to summon multiple lower level monsters. Think about how many CR 1/4 Kobolds you could get at CR18? HINT: It is NOT a 1 - 1 progression!
~ Lazlo ~
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, Lazlo, but it seems like that would give summon monster a massive advantage, one that it really doesn't need.
If you're saying that a summon monster IX spell could summon a CR 18 creature, there is no way that is balanced.
Azten posted a breakdown of the CRs for creatures summoned for each summon monster spell.
If I am misunderstanding you, please explain what you were suggesting.
I would not promote undead being summoned, undead should be created not summoned like outsiders. Next thing we will be summoning constructs, fey and everything else, just because there were similar spells in 3.x doesn't mean it was a good idea to start with.
I find summoning spells in themselves to be a bit corny and incoherent, I rather stick with calling spells if I can help it.