So I finally get to play a campaign with a DM who will actually let me use hirelings. I myself have always allowed them when I run it, but no one ever seems to use them.
Now, since most DMs get pissy about players just having things like animal companions, I want to get some advice about what I should do with hireling(s) and what I should avoid.
I believe the basic rule on hiring npc was 1/silver per HD, or 3/silver a day per HD for "trained" npc like an Adept or Warrior.
Also, do they come with equipment? I know you have to pay for their food.
DOs because....
1. It is an actual good idea.
2. It will benefit the party.
3. It will be fun or funny.
Don'ts because....
1. It will piss of the DM
2. It will just be a bad idea in general
My ideas, since we don't have a main healer. (I'm a sub healer as a Paladin without alignment restrictions (Chaotic Good Paladin, DM call)) and another party member can only heal people up to half-health, but has no limit on said ability to heal them to half health.
We are currently level 3.
Since I have 350 gold left over, plus what ever we find in the current dungeon I was going to hire 3 NPCs. A warrior and make him wear Breast Plate and a Tower-shield with a Trident, an Adept with nothing but cure light wound prepared, (and the arcane bond instead of a familiar), and a Commoner that cooks and carry our stuff.
Also the rest of the party is there too. :p
If they are all 3 HD, that would cost me 2 gold a Day (20 silver), and I am assuming I will also have more gold from our current adventure.
Maybe it would be easier to just buy a Heavy War horse and call it a day...
I know one major reason DMs get annoyed with are NPCs turns taking forever when they are in combat, but I'm pretty quick about my turns... Although we could end up never going to a town...
Just remember that hirelings technically are run by the DM. S/he may allow you to run them to ease his/her book keeping, but at any moment they can turn on you. So treat them accordingly (either by not trusting them, treating them well so they have no reason to turn on you, or both).
The prices you quote sound really, really low. I don't know about Pathfinder, but IIRC the prices in the 3.5 DMG were not for active combat duty. Think of it this way...would your character risk his or her life acting as the torch bearer of a high level NPC for such a paltry sum?
Again, I don't know about Pathfinder, but in the old classic/basic D&D rules a hireling also got a percentage of both loot and experience. It wasn't a full share of either, but it was significant.
I was never quite clear on the amount it cost to hire some high level NPCs. From what I could find it was 3xHD silver per day (for trained). The base price is actually set in the Good and Services part, but it never specifies how tough said NPC would be, but it specifically states warriors and adepts.
If I went by actual in game fluff text logic.
Food- Meals, good (per day) 5 sp
Food- Meals, common (per day) 3 sp
Food- Meals, poor (per day) 1 sp
A level one warrior could eat on 3 silver a day. Except I think I feed him as he works under me. A level 3 warrior would be able to eat very decent food if he wasn't saving for his new home, or would be able to save his money if he went with the cheap stuff. Since on average, your average NPC would rarely ever have that much gold unless he was a type of nobility.
While something like a light horse cost 75 gold, and a carriage cost 100 gold. Something not a lot of people had in the middle-ages unless they where a knight working under nobility or a company.
As far a commoners/non adventures go, a single gold piece would easily be a month's work. In terms for adventures, this is nothing, as they need newer, shinier radiating in magic weapons. Also keeping in mind that characters beyond level 6 are well beyond that of normal mortals, even without having magic in the equation since shape wood would horribly screw with the carpenters' business. As well as being able to buy out an entire city buy just selling one piece of equipment you found on your travels.
I do think its a bit small, but when I consider that a level 3 character with 3000 gold could effectively live off of that gold for 27 years, its hard to gauge how much your suppose to have in terms of someone living day to day.
Remember, a 'skilled' professional soldier can easily make 7 gp a week by taking 10 on a Profession check with just one rank in the skill. (As can a farmer, by the by).
I would start prices for anyone at all skilled in anything resembling combat at that price point, with a multiplier based on the relative danger... after all, people aren't going to take jobs they aren't likely to come back from without major incentives.
Well that is confusing. Since the base price for these NPCs are set to
3 silver a day. That is a stated price from pathfinder for a npc warrior, and that is assuming the npc is level 1.
Then again, one would assume "taking a 10" on a Profession check is a benefit for the player rather then NPCs towards other NPCs I guess.
Any ideas?
Even if he can't take ten, he still makes that much on average. In fact, if he's not living week-to-week and can survive a few lower paychecks in a row, he actually makes more money over the long haul by not taking ten on that check, since the average d20 roll is 10.5, not 10. The text also says "This value represents a minimum wage; many such hirelings require significantly higher pay." I would certainly rule that any position that required going into harm's way would cost more than that. Possibly still inexpensive, but more than what works out to basically "free" by level 2.
Even if he can't take ten, he still makes that much on average. In fact, if he's not living week-to-week and can survive a few lower paychecks in a row, he actually makes more money over the long haul by not taking ten on that check, since the average d20 roll is 10.5, not 10. The text also says "This value represents a minimum wage; many such hirelings require significantly higher pay." I would certainly rule that any position that required going into harm's way would cost more than that. Possibly still inexpensive, but more than what works out to basically "free" by level 2.
Now that I think about that, how does that actually work? I mean, a job like a soldier would be based on a fixed price. What, on a 20, does he walk up to his boss and ask for more gold for watching the bushes better?
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Now that I think about that, how does that actually work? I mean, a job like a soldier would be based on a fixed price. What, on a 20, does he walk up to his boss and ask for more gold for watching the bushes better?
-Combat pay
-Loot pay-Accounting error
-Bribed the quartermaster
-Caught a superior in a compromising situation
-Soldiers pay was often unreliable and random. He got some back pay that he was owed from the months he was on half pay.
Lockgo, I think you've discovered that there are some flaws with the Pathfinder economic system. I remember long, long ago some discussion on the WoTC boards that tried to reconcile this issue, but I don't remember the specifics and that thread is no doubt buried under WoTC's "let's all forget 3rd edition ever happened" policy.
Bottom line: in third edition it seems you're not really encouraged or expected to have combat hirelings. Even followers, from the leadership feat, aren't really expected to fight for you. I suspect designers were afraid of over-complicating combat (never mind that spellcasters and druids can do worse with summons).
My recommendation would be to toss out the 3rd/Pathfinder edition rules for hirelings and adapt new rules from a system that expected characters to have them. Adapt the AD&D or classic D&D rules. There's been a recent thread about this very subject on the AD&D section of the Dragonsfoot forums that you might find interesting, and it seems like those rules could be adapted to Pathfinder verbatim.
1. You must pay for all equipment for the hireling. If you want the hireling to have something, give it to him.
2. No spellcaster will follow you around for 3xHD silver a day, when he can charge HDxSpell Levelx10gp per spell cast. And you have to pay for the components.
That seems fair.
With the exception of having a spell caster, although one could argue the adept's usefulness of their spell list, I would still argue that any NPC you hire would be far less useful then any animal companion, especially when you have to equip them.
I do think the 3 silver per day*(HD) for a level 1 warrior is fair, considering that the player at level 1 is well under 100 gold before or after equipment is bought. While with level 2, gold is still very tight.
However, after level 1 not so much, but considering that your not "suppose to" level too quickly, anyone you hire will probably stick around for some times and drain on your already limited funds. Then after a few levels that is not so much an issue. Then after a few more levels you start to need to give them better equipment because they aren't cutting it.
This is hard to think about, since an animal companion would be much greater then a NPC of its level, even without equipment, do to all the special abilities they can get.
We also have flesh golems, the earliest you can buy one, or create one is as early as level 8 for about 10,500 gold.
Although I'm not too sure about this, I believe you can craft any type of construct you want as long as you use the Construct template. I recall Iron Defender "Metal Guard dogs" from the Eberron Campaign Setting, only costing 1250gp to create and they are the equivalent of a level 4 creature.
Although I believe the base asking price is about 1000 gold per HD, which yes, I agree, is still far more then 3 silver per day will ever be, consider what you get when you create a construct.
Immunity to almost everything including magic, no ability damage, Damage reduction "not always, but common among them", D10 hit dice, best base attack, natural weapons, does not eat sleep or breathe, dark vision, will do any command you ask even if it will end existence, never asking for a pay check.
Compare to a Human Warrior, I would hope the human warrior was a hell of a lot cheaper, especially if I had to pay for his/her equipment, and I better hope we actually fought something otherwise I just wasted gold. Not to mention the cost of their armor armor or weapons could easily run you into the hundreds, as well as they could up and leave, or are silently judging you, plotting to kill you and your friends in your sleep and take all your adventuring loot! (:p)
I think they could have implemented a solid system if they gave it some thought. I think 3 silver per day is an reasonable cost for level 1 players, but I can easily see the cost jumping much more after one or two levels.
I think a flat fee would also work better, say, 100(+ some increment based on level) gold without cost and the duration was something around a year.