Take improved trip, and trip him, then 5 ft step away. He can't take a 5 ft step if he is prone.
If you can not rebuild your character then never allow him to get within 5 feet. If he is willing to provoke an attack of opportunity then trip him while he is moving to within 5 feet. The attack of opportunity will occur while he is still 10 feet away.
If combat starts and you are within 5 feet then you are in trouble. The reason to have a reach weapon is to keep them away so it would have to start with you being 10 feet away or more. Combat reflexes is a good feat to have so that if you lose initiative you can still get an attack of opportunity. If they move to within 5 feet then you might have to take a move action and risk provoking to create distance, but they also have to provoke to get close to you again.
I was saying trip them if they charge or move(using a move action). If they use a 5 ft step you can't get an attack of opportunity.
I also forgot to add that while reach weapons are good in a real game(campaign) where the fighter is normally superior to most melee opponents they might not work so well in PVP.
I really don't get doing pvp play in a pencil-and-paper rpg. It just isn't designed for pvp, and simply sitting at the same table as your opponent gives each of you too much information about the other, and lends itself to "cheating", unless both competitors are unusually mature.
That said, I would suggest that as the reach-weapon fighter, you do a lot of fighting defensively and moving, withdrawing, and putting up a total defense. Tripping is also a good idea, as wraithstrike said. Use caltrops to create difficult terrain, and use cover to your advantage (a reach weapon calculates cover like a ranged weapon, so you can have cover from your opponent when he does not have cover from you, allowing you to attack and move without taking aoo from him)
A lesser cloak of displacement (with blur) and moonlight stalker mastery might help. If you oponent misses you ( you have a 30% miss chance on you), you can take a free 5' step. High feat tax though.
I guess there are some other feats regarding 5' steps.
You could also, relying on more material, use a fighter archetype with shield and glaive, then shield bash him away if he comes to near.
Step Up destroys reach weapon users. Casters can cast defensively. Archers and throwers have to wait a while for a feat to not provoke while shooting/throwing (and an archer can only ever get it if he's one of 3 classes: Ranger, Fighter, or Zen Archer Monk). As of now, reach users have no recourse at all.
Only thing you can really do is get a fly speed and Flyby Attack and just skirmish the hell out of someone with Step Up (unless he has a fly speed as well, then you're just boned).
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Step Up destroys reach weapon users. Casters can cast defensively. Archers and throwers have to wait a while for a feat to not provoke while shooting/throwing (and an archer can only ever get it if he's one of 3 classes: Ranger, Fighter, or Zen Archer Monk). As of now, reach users have no recourse at all.
My previous post listed the recourse.
Step Up is a feat which gives 5' weapon wielders some ability to compete with polearm fighters (whereas before they have none, and were greatly disadvantaged); Pushing Assault is a feat which, while any melee can glean use, is particularly devastating when combined with reach weapons.
Example: your turn as a polearm fighter, with opponent adjacent. Let's assume you have Haste (BoS) for two good attacks, and one or more lesser iteratives.
1) First attack: guantlet or Quick Draw 5' weapon, Power Attack and forfeit PA damage to "Pushing Assault" foe back 5'.
2) Power Attack/Pushing Assault with polearm as second attack, driving foe back another 5' (he's now 15' away).
3) If you think foe is weak, or he has really low AC, or you missed in 1) or 2), 5' and PA/PA again (driving him back another 5')...otherwise Quick Draw/thrown weapon, or forfeit lesser bonus iterative and 5' away from him (leaving him 20' away).
4) In order to attack you on his turn, he has to eat an AoO, meaning that you've not only neutered his Step Up feat chain, but you're trading hits 3:1 to one.
1) First attack: guantlet or Quick Draw 5' weapon, Power Attack and forfeit PA damage to "Pushing Assault" foe back 5'.
There is a problem with this first step. Pushing assault requires a two-handed weapon. You can't pushing assault with gauntlet and you would need to drop your polearm to draw a two-handed weapon.
Pushing Assault (Combat)
A strike made with a two-handed weapon can push a similar sized opponent backward.
Prerequisites: Str 15, Power Attack, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: When you hit a creature your size or smaller with a two-handed weapon attack modified by the Power Attack feat, you can choose to push the target 5 feet directly away from you instead of dealing the extra damage from Power Attack. If you score a critical hit, you can instead push the target 10 feet directly away from you. This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunities, and the target must end this move in a safe space it can stand in. You choose which effect to apply after the attack roll has been made, but before the damage is rolled.
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How is the orc not provoking an AoO when he steps from 10 feet away from you to 5 feet away from you? He's leaving your threatened area, he should provoke just the same as you do when you step 5 feet away from him.
Try Improved Bull Rush. That way if he gets up into your face, you can push him back. Remember, in Pathfinder, you don't have to move along with the victim of your bull rush, no matter how far he gets pushed.
Combat Reflexes/Stand Still is a good choice as well. Your increased threat radius means you can benefit from the extra AoO's, and with Stand Still, you can use an AoO to keep your opponent right where you want them.
But really, reach weapons work best when you're a team player. If you've got an ally with a non-reach weapon, you can stand behind him and attack whatever he's attacking. Especially in dungeon scenarios, where the first guy down the hallway has a tower shield and the second guy has a glaive.
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There is a problem with this first step. Pushing assault requires a two-handed weapon. You can't pushing assault with gauntlet and you would need to drop your polearm to draw a two-handed weapon.
You're right about the two-handed necessity of Pushing Assault, but you can still use the haft of a polearm as a two-handed improvised weapon (if, say, you're not inclined to bull rush) -- the fighters who dip Maneuver Master monk and pick up Catch Off-Guard as the free feat really excel here.
Now, there are several possiblities:
-Stand Still (not good vs 5' step).
-really use a shield in your off-hand and bash him 5' away (needs a non-core archetype or 3PP feats shield and shaft, near and far) with shield slam.
-Lunge: attack from 15' away, then he is screwed with his 5' step. He has to go 10' and get´s an AoO.
-also feats like quick bull rush and bull rush strike are your friends.
-dodge, mobility, spring attack, + maybe lunge. Move 10', attack from 15' away, go 10' back.
-generally stay out of his reach, possible without feats. Just move away and let him come, he eats an AoO each time and can only step up 5'.
There is a problem with this first step. Pushing assault requires a two-handed weapon. You can't pushing assault with gauntlet and you would need to drop your polearm to draw a two-handed weapon.You're right about the two-handed necessity of Pushing Assault, but you can still use the haft of a polearm as a two-handed improvised weapon (if, say, you're not inclined to bull rush) -- the fighters who dip Maneuver Master monk and pick up Catch Off-Guard as the free feat really excel here.
Also, while this is totally stupid, you could just have several glaives strapped to your back.
Drop glaive, quickdraw greatsword, pushing assault.
Drop greatsword, quickdraw 2nd glaive, pushing assault again!
Using the haft as a two handed improvised weapon probably makes a lot more sense—and seems like how characters with spears and such deal with this situation in movies.
Also,
You might consider this tactic:
Move action: move back 20' (you'll get hit with an attack of opportunity if you don't have tumble, but that's probably okay)
Standard action: ready an action to trip him when he comes into reach.
On his turn he has to charge or move through your threatened area, and you get to try to trip him twice, once with the readied action, and once with the attack of opportunity (as he can't use a 5' step to avoid that). Even without any trip feats, you have two chances, so your odds probably aren't too bad. Once he's tripped, standing up provokes an attack of opportunity. This isn't a super great tactic, but it's better than being totally hosed.
Obviously with greater trip (and combat reflexes), this becomes a much better tactic.
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Withdrawal, if you let him get that close, is your friend. Full action, does not provoke for the first 5' moved, and you don't have to just move away from your opponent.
Remember that if you start far enough away from him that he has to move, not just 5' step, to get close to you, he is going to provoke (sans Acrobatics check, keep your CMD high) an attack of opportunity. You can use a Trip attack during an AoO, so you have a chance of knocking him prone while he is still beyond his reach range of you.
Greater Trip allows you to get an AoO for him being tripped.
At this point, disarm becomes a nasty option. Greater disarm is even nastier. No spare weapon? Picking up an object form the group provokes. Standing up provokes. Pulling out a spare weapon is a move equivalent action that does not provoke, but he is either attacking from prone, at -4, or standing and provoking again.
If he does his "best" option at this point, which is to stand up, pull his spare weapon, and 5' step (standing is a move equivalent action, which allows him to still take a 5' step), you can still do another withdraw.
If he does anything less optimal, you get to disarm him again and/or trip him again. That litter of weapons on the ground isn't going to do Mr. Greatsword much good, at least not without him provoking AoOs.
And eventually, he is going to be down to a spiked gauntlet or dagger, which loses much of his benefits to damage. 1d3 or 1d4, basic Str mod to damage, 2:1 for Power Attack, etc. You, however, will still be using a two-handed weapon at this point, with 1.5 Str mod to damage, abnd 3:1 from Power Attack. At which point, of course, it sucks to be him.
Another thing to consider is the Pole Arm Master (Fighter) archetype, which allows you to choke up on your reach weapon and, albeit at a penalty, use it against adjacent opponents.
In the long run, this reduces Mr. Greatsword to either chasing you down while trying to find another weapon, or throwing daggers at you.
I think I found a solution for the reach weapon user.
You easily block enemy escapes.
Prerequisites: Combat Reflexes, fighter level 11th.
Benefit: Whenever an opponent you threaten takes a 5-foot step or uses the withdraw action, that opponent provokes an attack of opportunity from you. If the attack hits, you deal no damage, but the targeted creature is prevented from making the move action that granted a 5-foot step or the withdraw action and does not move.
So it only takes 11 levels in the Fighter class to deal with the fallout of a BAB +1 required feat. Totally reasonable.
And yes, I realize that feat is useful for lots of other purposes, too. But currently seems to be the only means to stop the Step Up guy from completely invalidating your reach weapon.
currently seems to be the only means to stop the Step Up guy from completely invalidating your reach weapon.Am I typing in an invisible font? :-P
No, but you agreed your Pushing Assault idea had flaws.
And I hate Pushing Assault anyway. It activately gets worse with levelling up, and highlights the massive annoyance that PF's "you're either power attacking or you're not, there is no 'degree to which' you power attack" stance is.
It's a fixed 5 ft push. That's fine at level 1, you take a -1 to hit and trade your +3 damage to get a 5 ft push. But as your penalty/bonus increase, the distance remains the same, 5 ft. Even at level 20 when you're taking a whopping -6 to hit. And you have no means of just taking a -1.
Remember he has to use his next turn's 5-foot step to Step Up. So just bull rush him back and then take your AoO on him when he tries to close again next turn.
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Tripping and Lunge, don't let him get close enough to to use step up, if you have enough feats, get the disarm line as well. If he gets in your face because you rolled badly on a trip, take the damage, then full withdraw and move at least 15ft and always try to end your turn at least 15ft away from him.
If he is;
5ft away, full withdraw at least 15ft away
10ft away, full attack, then 5ft back
15ft away, lunge + full attack
20+ft away, two options here, offensive or defensive. Offensive: move up so that you are 15ft away and use lunge to attack from 15ft. Or defensive, ready an action for him to enter your threatened area and trip him when he does, then 5ft away, this is a good way to avoid him using spring attack on you, but you should probably only use it if he starts using spring attack
As i said before, also consider using a ranseur and disarming him. With the two disarm feats and a disarm weapon you CMB for disarms will be BAB + STR + 6. Although this is easily defeated by getting a locked gauntlet.
One last thing to consider, since you are using a reach weapon you can use sunder without provoking AoOs so instead of attacking his hitpoints, attack his sword, if you can destroy the sword he's pretty boned then
I think I found a solution for the reach weapon user.
** spoiler omitted **
So it only takes 11 levels in the Fighter class to deal with the fallout of a BAB +1 required feat. Totally reasonable.
And yes, I realize that feat is useful for lots of other purposes, too. But currently seems to be the only means to stop the Step Up guy from completely invalidating your reach weapon.
I hate such fighter only feats.
Really cripples a lot of other concepts and classes melee sometimes.
Pull out your non-reach trip weapon and bash him with it. (A heavy flail or something would be good -- also good in case you run into DR/blunt.)
It's never a good idea to be such a one-trick pony that you get countertricked.
walk back 5' and take the AoO. He can't step-up at you, then wack him with a pushing assault, and suddenly he's 15 ft away. He can 5' into your reach, or walk up to you and give you the chance for an AoO and hit you. You do the same to him. Or you Run, move 4 times your speed so he has to charge you t get in range, and then use Brace to brace against the charge to deal double damage.
If you have acrobatics, you can tumble through the squares he'd get to AoO you with and not trigger his Step-up.
Lunge with a reach weapon, Full attack from 15 ft away, last hit is a Pushing Assault, knock him back to 20 ft.
Or all of the above: Tumble to get 15 ft away, and use lunge to hit him.
HE can take and AoO to get close, or ty to 5' his way in. If he does the latter, You wack him with a pushing assault, and finish your full attack from 15 ft away with lunge, and 5' step back.
That works right?
I hate such fighter only feats.
Really cripples a lot of other concepts and classes melee sometimes.
I've actually LONG advocated for high level Fighter-only feats that were a) awesome and b) had just about no pre-reqs other than Fighter level, since a Fighter's high level class features are basically...feats. 3E started adding high level fighter feats w/ PHB 2, but they tended to be at the end of giant feat trees that required too much investment and fore-planning. So I'm actually very happy with Paizo for going this route.
That said, I'd have the high level Fighter-only feats be cool combat techniques that aren't crucial to certain fighting styles but nonetheless useful and powerful. I consider the ability to stop a foe's movement a crucial ability for a "melee controller" and in this case agree with you, I wish it was available to other classes and maybe a little earlier, too. :(
walk back 5' and take the AoO. He can't step-up at you, then wack him with a pushing assault, and suddenly he's 15 ft away. He can 5' into your reach, or walk up to you and give you the chance for an AoO and hit you. You do the same to him. Or you Run, move 4 times your speed so he has to charge you t get in range, and then use Brace to brace against the charge to deal double damage.
If you have acrobatics, you can tumble through the squares he'd get to AoO you with and not trigger his Step-up.
Lunge with a reach weapon, Full attack from 15 ft away, last hit is a Pushing Assault, knock him back to 20 ft.
Or all of the above: Tumble to get 15 ft away, and use lunge to hit him.
HE can take and AoO to get close, or ty to 5' his way in. If he does the latter, You wack him with a pushing assault, and finish your full attack from 15 ft away with lunge, and 5' step back.That works right?
Just 5 ft stepping back does not work. Once he's within 10 ft of you, he can just use Step Up to follow you on your turn if you try and step back. Tumbling will work, but even w/ max ranks you're going to fail it a lot and take AoOs, and if you're going to assume the reach fighter has tumble, it's just as likely the other guy does to avoid your AoO for moving within reach, too. This is still probably the best possible outcome, basically a deadlock. Unless he has the two APG feats that added to the tree, then you're still screwed no matter how well you tumble.
Of course, the smartest way to use Step Up in a duel with a reach fighter, if your foe isn't as cautious as you, is to simply ready an action to 5 ft step closer and attack when he comes within 10 ft of you and stops to attack. If the reach fighter then makes the first agressive move, you trigger your ready, move up and whack him, and he doesn't get to attack you at all unless he uses a spiked gauntlet or something! Next round, because of the readied action rules, your initiative comes up just before his and you full attack. Ouch. Reach guy's turn, he's eaten a whole bunch of unanswered attacks and finds himself in a bad position. If he doesn't know you have Step Up, he probably steps back and has his reach weapon attacks neutralized AGAIN. If he knows you have it, he has to choose switching to a (lower enhanced) non-reach weapon, which itself will take a move action barring quickdraw and deprive him of full attacking, or eating an AoO (and hoping you don't have Stand Still) to move action away. Or a withdraw action, but then he can't even ready an action to hit you and is relying solely on his 1 reach AoO against your attack action (which could be a Vital Strike or something), so...seems like a bad idea.
I think this is about how a Reach fighter counters step-up.
You walk away, don't 5' step, cause it's the 5' step that triggers Step-Up. So use a move action then wack him. Or use a Withdrawal action, and run the hell away!
If you have Lunge, walk away from him to 15 feet, Hit him with lunge, then he has to use a move action to get close to you to attack, and you get your AoO as he closes in.
although if that happens, you basically trade hitting each other with a standard action and an AoO. but at least you get to hit him, and if you got Pushing assault and Standstill, you've got an advantage. Use Lunge to hit from 15 away, and when he moves up to attack you wach him with Pushing assault or standstill and he can't close in on you, not easily at least.
If you walk away then you provoke an attack of opportunity though for leaving a threatened square.
And Stand Still only works on enemies already adjacent to you, it's nothing at all like 3E Stand Still in use.
I never liked the Pathfinder version of Stand Still. It would be a lot better if you could threaten every square you could reach.