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So, I am going to have a witch level up to eighth level soon, and I was looking at the fun hexes that I could take. My group tends to put itself in social situations, so naturally, Charm hex is drawing my attention. So this brings up some questions that I have, not only about Charm hex, but also Evil Eye, and potentially other hexes.
So, with Charm hex, your target gets a Will save. Let's say my witch is at a guard post and wants to get through. The guard has an attitude of "Indifferent". The witch decides to step forward and "Charm" this guard. Little does the witch know that the guard has a really good Will save, and when my Witch uses her hex charm, and the guard makes the save, does the guard detect this attempt to sway his viewpoint and his attitude goes from "Indifferent" to "Unfriendly"?
I don't think I really understood how hexes come in to play when used in non combat scenarios. For example, could my Witch hang back as the party leader starts talking with the guard and start Evil Eye to reduce the Will save, then start Cackling, then use Misfortune, continue Cackling, then start talking to the guard and then use Charm hex? Obviously the Evil Eye and Misfortune hexes would give a HUGE advantage to making the guard fall prey to the Charm hex. Would the guard feel the Evil Eye creep in? would the guard or some of the lesser guards start looking at the cackling Witch and think something is up, then pull their weapons and attack my party?
As you can see and imagine, this can go on and on. From what I have read, the only hex that really is blatantly detectable is perhaps the Cackle hex as the Witch is just doing that... Cackling. And that could be perceived as somewhat unnerving at the least. But unnerving to the level of considering it an attack? And then retaliating on said attack by brandishing weapons? From what I can tell, using Evil Eye, Fortune, Misfortune, or Charm don't have any somatic of verbal requirements, so if the guard did make the save, would he sense that he just staved off some form of assault? And if he did, would he know who assaulted him?
Or even just using Fortune hex to maybe give the party leader the opportunity to roll twice for the diplomacy check to sway the guard. Would that be detected by anyone?
Any help in the RAW about hexes and their use and consequences would be appreciated. Any general feedback would be welcome too.
Thanks in advance!
Well, when a character fails a save, by RAW, they do notice that "something" has happened. So he would certainly be suspicious. If you attempt to evil eye him, that is an attack and so he will likely go hostile.
Or at least that's how I would play it as a GM.
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If you target an enemy with an ability that puts him at a disadvantage it is an attack.
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They know something happened but it does not automatically mean they know what happened or who did it. I guess that technically they might use Spellcraft to identify the hex when it is being used, though with a very high DC (similar to identifying a Silent Still spell cast). Or when they feel something happened, a Kn : Arcana check might be in order for identifying the effect.
If they do not succeed at either check, then they are likely to become generally suspicious but not immediately hostile to you unless they have very good reason to believe you are the enemy caster or it is standard procedure for such a case.
And if they miss their saves and all your hexes go through, Cackle might make them suspicious, but nothing that a good Bluff check cannot take care of. Note however that both the use and the effect of Cackle give them opportunities for Spellcraft and Kn : Arcana checks in addition to the use and effect of all the other hexes.
Of course, a good Sense Motive check can also help them understand what is happening.
My group tends to put itself in social situations
If your witch is roleplaying alot in social situations then the Disguise Hex may prove useful.
If you target an enemy with an ability that puts him at a disadvantage it is an attack.
Further, ask yourself if you would be OK with this happening to your character. If the DM said an NPC was lowering your defenses, cursing you, and then charming you to do something you don't want, and you have no way of knowing what was happening or why, would that be OK?
Attacks
Some spell descriptions refer to attacking. All offensive combat actions, even those that don't damage opponents, are considered attacks. Attempts to channel energy count as attacks if it would harm any creatures in the area. All spells that opponents resist with saving throws, that deal damage, or that otherwise harm or hamper subjects are attacks. Spells that summon monsters or other allies are not attacks because the spells themselves don't harm anyone.
Seems pretty clear to me that any spell which requires a saving throw is an "attack" and as such invites a violent response.
The question of whether the target knows WHO cast the spell is trickier to resolve. I can't find anything in the rules that says a target that fails a save or is affected by the spell automatically knows the source of the spell. If there is any such thing I'd love to see a link to it.
Alright gang. Thanks for the reply.
I think where this thread landed is that it does count as an attack, but from whom is another question.
Overall, I need to see how my GM rules it, but it is always nice to give him several perspectives before making his own.