Mysterious Stranger Gunslinger - Why does it not change all gunslinger abilities / grit feats into cha?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


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Building a Kitsune Gunslinger, I recently found out that there are some features later in gunslinger life that continue to stick with wisdom instead of going cha.

Is this how it is suppose to be? Is playing a mysterious stranger gunslinger instantly suppose to sign you up for MAD magazine?


It would be nice to get something semi-official on this, if not errata.


It seems like it would be logical, but by raw..


Edgar V. Price wrote:

Building a Kitsune Gunslinger, I recently found out that there are some features later in gunslinger life that continue to stick with wisdom instead of going cha.

Is this how it is suppose to be? Is playing a mysterious stranger gunslinger instantly suppose to sign you up for MAD magazine?

It only affects the grit pool but not the rest of class. That seems to be how it was intended. You could always talk to your GM; I'd allow it to change the whole class's base abilities.


I've talked with my GM. Unless there is something official, what was written shall be.

It doesn't actually seem like it was intended. If it was intended, it would often have clarifying text that says "other abilities still use wisdom cause we want you to suffer MAD and have to put all your points in DEX, WIS and CHA for daring to make something other than a standard gunslinger that uses WIS."

or something like that. My view is they forgot about the stuff that uses WIS in the class abilities.


Bumping this out of archive in hopes of getting an answer.


It doesn't look like it's supposed to do anything other than replace how much Grit they get. It's a trade-off you have to accept with some archetypes.

It looks like you're really only worried about Stunning Shot and Menacing Shot. What else would you need it for?


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

"With some archetypes" suggests there is another archetype out there for another class that changes part of a class and completely ruins the other parts of the class. Like an archetype for monk that make Ki into cha, and then doesn't change anything else of the class.

The closest I could come up with is the sorcerer bloodlines that change your spell casting to a different stat. Cept it also changed everything else.

First party stuff at this current moment, Stunning shot and Menacing shot. However there is also some third party stuff for gunslinger, which ends up relying heavily on WIS. And I suspect in the future, Paizo will release feats for it as well.

I'm not sure how it looks like it is "supposed" to be this way, or my way. I mean, martial artist after all looks like (in book) you are suppose to have abundant step, even though it is useless.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Martial Artist archetype get's rid of Ki Pool, but leaves Abundant Step in place, which requires Ki.

So yeah, some archetypes made it through with bugs in them. FAQ it and if you get enough, maybe someone will address it.


Ævux wrote:

"With some archetypes" suggests there is another archetype out there for another class that changes part of a class and completely ruins the other parts of the class. Like an archetype for monk that make Ki into cha, and then doesn't change anything else of the class.

The closest I could come up with is the sorcerer bloodlines that change your spell casting to a different stat. Cept it also changed everything else.

First party stuff at this current moment, Stunning shot and Menacing shot. However there is also some third party stuff for gunslinger, which ends up relying heavily on WIS. And I suspect in the future, Paizo will release feats for it as well.

I'm not sure how it looks like it is "supposed" to be this way, or my way. I mean, martial artist after all looks like (in book) you are suppose to have abundant step, even though it is useless.

The difference here is that you still have those two abilities. You just aren't as good with them. However, you picked up other abilities that make up for it. The mysterious stranger picks up a deed that uses Charisma.

By having Charisma as a more important stat, your focus changes. You will not be as good with Perception but will be better with Bluff and Diplomacy. It's a trade off.

Third party stuff isn't Paizo's concern and shouldn't be. They have enough of their own products to worry about.


Last time I checked, Mysterious Stranger was an archetype out of Ultimate Combat which is a Paizo product...


That is true but there are 3PP that focus on the gunslinger and there may be more in the future. Paizo shouldn't concern themselves with that. They have enough of their own products to worry about.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Bob_Loblaw wrote:
Ævux wrote:

"With some archetypes" suggests there is another archetype out there for another class that changes part of a class and completely ruins the other parts of the class. Like an archetype for monk that make Ki into cha, and then doesn't change anything else of the class.

The closest I could come up with is the sorcerer bloodlines that change your spell casting to a different stat. Cept it also changed everything else.

First party stuff at this current moment, Stunning shot and Menacing shot. However there is also some third party stuff for gunslinger, which ends up relying heavily on WIS. And I suspect in the future, Paizo will release feats for it as well.

I'm not sure how it looks like it is "supposed" to be this way, or my way. I mean, martial artist after all looks like (in book) you are suppose to have abundant step, even though it is useless.

The difference here is that you still have those two abilities. You just aren't as good with them. However, you picked up other abilities that make up for it. The mysterious stranger picks up a deed that uses Charisma.

By having Charisma as a more important stat, your focus changes. You will not be as good with Perception but will be better with Bluff and Diplomacy. It's a trade off.

Third party stuff isn't Paizo's concern and shouldn't be. They have enough of their own products to worry about.

So Paizo will never ever ever release any grit feats that are based soaly on wisdom.

Yes, that's a "trade off" in skills, but skills aren't really class features. Again, the sorcerer bloodlines that changed the stat they use to cast with, changed Everything for the the sorcerer class features. You can't serious sit there and tell me that if for some reason they decided to make a cha based monk, and they change ki to cha and leave everything else that the class offers in wisdom that it was just a "lol, trade off"

Regardless of third party stuff, the gunslinger still has two class features that are forgotten about and still keep with wisdom.


Ævux wrote:
Bob_Loblaw wrote:
Ævux wrote:

"With some archetypes" suggests there is another archetype out there for another class that changes part of a class and completely ruins the other parts of the class. Like an archetype for monk that make Ki into cha, and then doesn't change anything else of the class.

The closest I could come up with is the sorcerer bloodlines that change your spell casting to a different stat. Cept it also changed everything else.

First party stuff at this current moment, Stunning shot and Menacing shot. However there is also some third party stuff for gunslinger, which ends up relying heavily on WIS. And I suspect in the future, Paizo will release feats for it as well.

I'm not sure how it looks like it is "supposed" to be this way, or my way. I mean, martial artist after all looks like (in book) you are suppose to have abundant step, even though it is useless.

The difference here is that you still have those two abilities. You just aren't as good with them. However, you picked up other abilities that make up for it. The mysterious stranger picks up a deed that uses Charisma.

By having Charisma as a more important stat, your focus changes. You will not be as good with Perception but will be better with Bluff and Diplomacy. It's a trade off.

Third party stuff isn't Paizo's concern and shouldn't be. They have enough of their own products to worry about.

So Paizo will never ever ever release any grit feats that are based soaly on wisdom.

Yes, that's a "trade off" in skills, but skills aren't really class features. Again, the sorcerer bloodlines that changed the stat they use to cast with, changed Everything for the the sorcerer class features. You can't serious sit there and tell me that if for some reason they decided to make a cha based monk, and they change ki to cha and leave everything else that the class offers in wisdom that it was just a "lol, trade off"

Regardless of third party stuff, the gunslinger still has two class features that are forgotten about and still keep with wisdom.

That's not even close to what I said. If you take an archetype, you are not playing the original class design. You will not have all the same features. That's just the way it goes. I have no idea what Paizo's plans are for the future. It doesn't really change the fact that those two abilities are still Wisdom based and the new archetype picked up a Charisma based ability. You are assuming that they were forgotten about. Maybe they were considered and Paizo didn't feel like changing them. They still work just fine as written. If you want them to have higher DCs then you will just need to improve your Wisdom too. It's no different from other classes that have MAD abilities.

Someone brought up 3PP stuff as if it was a reason for Paizo to consider what they do. It's still not Paizo's concern what a 3PP does. If a 3PP wants to make something for the gunslinger, that's awesome. They need to work to make it compatible with Paizo products, not the other way around.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

No, it is different. Generally speaking, classes with MAD abilities, generally develop into farther archtypes. They don't have archetypes that make them more MAD.

But I will continue to assume they forgot something. There has been numerous cases were things have slipped through. Feats appearing that don't exist for example, same with spells and the like. Just cause it is currently this way does not prove or disprove anything.

Sovereign Court

What they need to do is rewrite all the classes in such a way that abilities are keyed to a 'casting stat' or 'prime stat'. And define which stat that is up front.

That way when bloodlines/archetypes/whatever allow for an alternate casting stat, nothing gets forgotten to the new stat.

But, bulletproof language isn't a priority so we'll just inevitably have things that fall through the cracks like that.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Still nothing on this.. :(

Smurfing smurf.

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