I think the problem is that everyone thinks of it as only a damage spell.
Ultimately, that's what it is, but what about everything that it damages?
I've used Fireballs in the past while fighting vampires to blast a hole in the side of a building to let in the sunlight.
And it's that raw destructive power that is often overlooked that I think that makes it a better spell than people realize.
It says that metals with low melting points are melted - how interesting would it be to consider the effect of melting someone's brass brooch holding on their cloak of resistance.
And why memorize Knock if Fireball does the same thing, and then some?
A typical wooden wall has hardness 5 and 60 hitpoints. Fire does half damage to objects. So a typical 10d6 fireball (35 points of damage on average) is reduced to 17 damage, then reduced by 5 more for the hardness to 12 damage. Only takes 5 average fireballs to blast a hole in a wall. Even a maximized fireball only does 25 damage. Still takes 3 of them to make a hole. If your DM is nice and says a fireballs damage isn't reduced by half against a wood wall, it still takes 2 fireballs to hole a typical wooden wall.
Worn or attended items never take damage unless the wearer rolls a 1 on his save. A brass brooch, or even a piece of paper held out in front of him, is totally immune to fireball unless the holder rolls a 1.
And why waste a fireball on a single wooden door? Use Knock (a lower level spell, so you are never forced to choose between memorizing one over the other. You can have both.), or just kick the door open. Your fighter friend can take 10 and kick open even a locked simple wooden door. Even a locked good wooden door can be broken with a kick (Only a DC 18 strength check. Typical 5th level warriors probably have a 21 strength, maybe a +2 Str enhancing item. That a +6 bonus on strength checks. Only need to roll a 12). A locked strong wooden door would take a couple of kicks though. Taking 2 minutes to take 20 on the check though is probably better then wasting an AoE spell on a single door.
And no one wants to have the dragons treasure hoard fused into a single massive metal ingot, not to mention any unattended magical items you just fried.
It is situationally useful, but overall it is not that great. Fireball blowing the hole in the side of the building depends on the material. As for replacing knock you might not want to damage the building.
As for melting brooches items don't take damage against AoE's unless the victim rolls a nat 1, and even then the item gets a save, and which item is targeted is rolled randomly.
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In other words you have a DM who has probably been playing for years and is cool with spells doing such stuff not everyone is that lucky.
Fireball is a third level spell. It isn't so much that it is a bad spell is that so many other third level spells just rock.
Dispel magic, Sleet storm, Stinking cloud, Phantom steed, Summon monster 3, Major Image, Wind wall, Ray of exhaustion, Fly, Haste, Slow, Magic weapon greater.
Competing with all of those spells is hard, and fourth level has many more hard choices as well. The spell isn't really underrated, its rated by comparison.
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I think the problem is that everyone thinks of it as only a damage spell.
Ultimately, that's what it is, but what about everything that it damages?
I've used Fireballs in the past while fighting vampires to blast a hole in the side of a building to let in the sunlight.
And it's that raw destructive power that is often overlooked that I think that makes it a better spell than people realize.
It says that metals with low melting points are melted - how interesting would it be to consider the effect of melting someone's brass brooch holding on their cloak of resistance.
And why memorize Knock if Fireball does the same thing, and then some?
As Jeraa points out, the probability of you actually blowing a hole through a wall with fireball while actually following the rules is more or less nil. At most it deals 60 points of damage maximized. Halved, then hardness is applied, then damage dealt. So against a wooden wall, a maximized fireball cast at full power inflicts less than half the wall's HP in damage. No slaying vampires.
However, it is pretty good at destroying other types of objects, whether you want it to or not. Is there a room up ahead filled with goblins? Toss a fireball inside! Except, you killed the goblins, destroyed the shelf, chest, and desk inside the room, burned several magical scrolls, a spellbook, the document detailing the big bad's plan that was sitting on the desk, vaporized the potions, toasted the alchemist fires in the bag hanging on the chair, and burned all the fancy tapestries that were art objects, and melted that gem-studded circlet into a pile of liquid metal and cracked gemstones. I bet your party is thrilled with your spell selection now.
Congratulations, you killed the goblins and completely nuked anything resembling treasure in the room, and set fire to anything flammable, because that's what the spell does. It destroys stuff, and unattended objects are especially vulnerable.
Likewise, since fireball automatically sets fires to flammable objects, using it to open a door in an otherwise flammable building means having to call 911 immediately after, because you decided to set the building on fire as well. Smart move wizard. :P
However, it is pretty good at destroying other types of objects, whether you want it to or not. Is there a room up ahead filled with goblins? Toss a fireball inside! Except, you killed the goblins, destroyed the shelf, chest, and desk inside the room, burned several magical scrolls, a spellbook, the document detailing the big bad's plan that was sitting on the desk, vaporized the potions, toasted the alchemist fires in the bag hanging on the chair, and burned all the fancy tapestries that were art objects, and melted that gem-studded circlet into a pile of liquid metal and cracked gemstones. I bet your party is thrilled with your spell selection now.
Congratulations, you killed the goblins and completely nuked anything resembling treasure in the room, and set fire to anything flammable, because that's what the spell does. It destroys stuff, and unattended objects are especially vulnerable.
Plus the fact that you just took the fun out of killing everything.
Plus the fact that you just took the fun out of killing everything.However, it is pretty good at destroying other types of objects, whether you want it to or not. Is there a room up ahead filled with goblins? Toss a fireball inside! Except, you killed the goblins, destroyed the shelf, chest, and desk inside the room, burned several magical scrolls, a spellbook, the document detailing the big bad's plan that was sitting on the desk, vaporized the potions, toasted the alchemist fires in the bag hanging on the chair, and burned all the fancy tapestries that were art objects, and melted that gem-studded circlet into a pile of liquid metal and cracked gemstones. I bet your party is thrilled with your spell selection now.
Congratulations, you killed the goblins and completely nuked anything resembling treasure in the room, and set fire to anything flammable, because that's what the spell does. It destroys stuff, and unattended objects are especially vulnerable.
Heh, that too. :P
EDIT: Fortunately in my games, there would be plenty more goblins to fry. ;3
i've always viewed fireball as more of a carrier spell than a weapon in and of itself. dazing spell, rime spell (when substituted for cold, obviously), that sort of thing... fireball in and of itself is underwhelming in most circumstances, at least to my mind.
that said, this one time i had a couple of fireballs and a series of rooms filled to the brim with goblin warriors... fun times.
i've always viewed fireball as more of a carrier spell than a weapon in and of itself. dazing spell, rime spell (when substituted for cold, obviously), that sort of thing... fireball in and of itself is underwhelming in most circumstances, at least to my mind.
that said, this one time i had a couple of fireballs and a series of rooms filled to the brim with goblin warriors... fun times.
Dazing spell is generally the best option for blasting, which essentially turns them into control spells with a kicker. I've found some spells to be even more interesting.
For example...
dazing is good, but bang for your buck Rime is better. no save, just entangled for however many rounds. catch is that it only works on cold spells, but there are many ways to change spell energy types. also, it's a +1 level boost instead of +3, so doesn't cost as much for a very solid, very reliable lockdown.
there is something very viseral and undeniably satisfying about fireballs, though. sure they don't really do that much damage, but there's something about saying 'i cast FIREBALL!' that you don't get from other spells.
merciful fireball is always good as it can end a tavern brawl without any casualties, and with no expensive property damage either (objects are immune to non-lethal)
sickening fireball is of course the budget version of dazing fireball, and a lingering version of either makes it a great short-term area denial spell (are you SURE you want to enter the sphere of still-burning toxic fire? Really?)
so lets look at fireballs good points, from the point of view of a metamagic carrier.
level: 3rd. that's low enough to seriously pimp out, and also low enough to get fairly early on, but high enough that any effects it carries are going to stick around for long enough to matter. it's right in the butter zone.
Range: long. that's very good for a spell you're going to be tricking out, as it makes it useful in more scenarios.
Area: 20 foot burst. nice. not too big for tactical use, not too small for medium to large groups. watch for friendlies.
save: reflex. good, as that's often a weak point for the tough-as-nails thugs and iron-willed wizards alike. effects you tag on will target this and bypass normal resistance to such effects (daze targetting will, sickened targetting fortitude). as a plus, even if everything else fails theres good odds of you dealing half damage anyway, so you at least get to roll some dice.
spell resistance: yes. shame, but you can't win them all.
Damage: up to 10d6, fire. not really impressive, but we didn't want it for damage anyway.
other effects: property damage. not really that useful, but can be worth your while in a pinch.
that's why i say fireball is a staple: it's a great carrier. who cares how much damage it does, it ticks every other box except spell resistance!
I've found it's good at higher levels, especially when the DM throws in an aggravating "mook swarm". The new Cleve feats keep fighter from buzzsawing through these now. It's nice to be able to nuke things at range sometimes.
It's a cool option if you play some hybrid mass combat game session since it's got a really nice effect on formations of troops. It should have a decent psychological component in those cases. This is a pretty fringe benefit in most games.
It was NEVER that great a spell, it just has an impressive imagery thing going. In olden times Lightning Bolt was a much better spell, but LB got less love. Visceral is the right term for it's appeal.
That Rime meta is a good deal, I can't believe I haven't pursued that option even on my BBEGs. Time to switch up my tricks.
Hold Portal is the best spell ever. That is why people memorize Knock.
Hold Portal is the best spell ever. That is why people memorize Knock.
Trollolloo!
The voice of reason
What this person said.
Fireball is a good spell but not as good as you're suggesting. It's a quick burn, not a massive explosion, and is bad for damaging objects.
If it's a non-magical door/lock, couldn't Shatter be used to destroy it?
If it's a non-magical door/lock, couldn't Shatter be used to destroy it?
Yep. Summon Monster III can do it too. :3
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Fireball.
When you absolutely, positively must not kill everything in the room.