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My players have recently reached the mid-levels, and are a relatively caster heavy party. The biggest problem I've been facing as a GM is the amount of scrying that can be cast, and that combined with teleportation.
What precautions can villains and other NPCs take against scrying? I know it's possible to discover the scrying sensor, and the perception check is not too hard to beat. What exactly do they discover, and would they require spellcraft to recognize what exactly it is? Once discovered, I assume they can take physical precautions to hide, such as shutting off lights or stopping whatever they are doing.
What ways are there to combat scrying? Because the person scrying can just keep casting those spells, and eventually they will fail their saves. What methods / magic can be used in preventive measures(I assume most important NPCs would do something to prevent scrying, since it's so damn easy to use), and what can be done once they discover they are scried upon?
Right now I see few ways to actually put any kind of repercussions on overusing scrying. The person scried upon will not know who is doing the scrying, and thus can't scry back. I would like my players to use it more sparingly, as I imagine overuse of scrying against other powerful creatures/characters could lead to badstuff - but what exactly?
Just about every mid to high level villain worth his or her salt has access to the spell mind blank in one form or another as either regular castings or on a ring or some such. Yes, it's a high level spell but any respectable long-term villain can get a hold of it one way or another. It lasts 24 hours per casting and foils any attempts at scrying (even those backed by miracle or wish). It's essentially the "Protect Villain's Identity" button.
No scry and fry for your PCs. No anti-climactic save-or-suck from half a continent away. No need to impose some limitation on your PCs. Let them scry all they want, it won't do anything. They have to get your BBEG the old fashioned way.
Anything else you need to know to protect your big-bad's nefarious dealings against those pesky heroes?
Wow Scry and Fry?
First off if they are using teleport roll those mishaps. First time they get that wrong they will stop. Viewed Once (which is what scry uses) gives a 12% chance of ending up where you didn't mean to, a 7% chance of ending up in a similar area (which can be anywhere in range!), and a 4% chance of getting scrambled (and possibly being stuck in a scrambling loop -- that hurts).
Also Scrying gets you a very small view area -- they're going to be really embarassed the first time they teleport into a room thinking they have the villain alone and 15 feet away is his entire retinue and the delegation of another evil power visiting.
Detect Scrying is a rather low level spell and is a good "Hey you are being looked at" thing for a villain to have up if he is a caster (24 hour duration too).
Lead lined buildings -- I love them.
Dimensional Lock is expensive and not everybody will go for it -- but the palace in Chelax? Yeah I believe they probably will.
Don't forget about the save throw either -- remember if you make a save throw you know it.
Finally we should discuss Teleport Trap -- which is simply permission for a GM to screw players over (not that you needed it or should -- but it is there).
All of those spells are relatively easy for a big bad villain, king, rich noble etc all to have, by either having that power level themselves or hiring wizards to do it for them. But that's for the more powerful of villains and NPCs
For the more mundane people, or those with limited resources, it seems like quite a pain. What can even a non-caster do? Lead is a good idea, but too bad you can't use a lead helmet to protect you. Or... could you...?
As for will saves, is that true? Do you ALWAYS know when you make a will save? And what exactly do you find out, can one detect a successful will save is an effort to ward off a scrying attempt?
I was lucky. My campaign is set in Varisia, which used to be the Thassilon empire. The landscape has old Thassilonian ruins in every province. Once the player characters reached the level at which they could scry, they discovered that the ancient fortresses and research labs were scry-proof. Those ruins are favorite lairs for the villains.
Villains without such hideouts and without Mind Blank were vulnerable to scrying. The party themselves preferred to spend the night in comfortable inns, until one enemy started using scry and teleport against them.
You know when you succeed on one.
Succeeding on a Saving Throw
A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack. Likewise, if a creature's saving throw succeeds against a targeted spell, you sense that the spell has failed. You do not sense when creatures succeed on saves against effect and area spells.
It doesn't tell you what spell it is though.
Detect scrying isn't that high of a spell (4th) and if you match the scryer on a caster level check (or bet him) then you also get a mental image of the person scrying you (as well as distance and direction from you).
There is also the chance to notice the sensor without magic:
Scrying: a scrying spell creates an invisible magical sensor that sends you information. Unless noted otherwise, the sensor has the same powers of sensory acuity that you possess. This level of acuity includes any spells or effects that target you, but not spells or effects that emanate from you. The sensor, however, is treated as a separate, independent sensory organ of yours, and thus functions normally even if you have been blinded or deafened, or otherwise suffered sensory impairment.
A creature can notice the sensor by making a Perception check with a DC 20 + the spell level. The sensor can be dispelled as if it were an active spell.
Lead sheeting or magical protection blocks a scrying spell, and you sense that the spell is blocked.
By the way look at that last sentence -- what is magical protection in your games? That might be a simple as a ring of protection +1 -- after all it is magical and it is protection.
There is the Amulet of Proof against Detection and Location which specifically stops scrying (a bit pricey though 35,000gp).
Also how are your players getting a connection to the person? I mean if it is just someone they have heard of that gives the person a +5 to their save throw or at least a picture. I've personally had people that look alike in my campaigns before or with the same name (it happens sometimes). So the PC's should make sure they are stalking the right guy.
Detect Scrying seems rather handy, especially if you are expecting scrying - such as the players trying and failing to get through his will save once.
What I would want is a spell that could retroactively track a scrying. You get scried upon, the NPC suspects it, and gets meassures to find out. Is there anything that can do that short of a Wish/Miracle?
Perhaps a homebrew spell could do the trick, I would imagine spell level 5-6 could be appropriate, since its a bit more powerful than detect scrying. And could prompt a will save by the caster. So essentially, a counter-scrying that works like the scry spell, but can be used retroactively.
It's just an idea, I would prefer to have counter-scrying than block-scrying all the time. And it's just not realistic that most people(except the really powerful/important npcs) have mind blank or nondetection going all the time - but it's a fair bit more realistic that they can do something about it if they suspect themselves being scried upon.
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Well if you have detect scrying up and make that caster level check I would have that give enough to try the spell -- but the save throw is likely going to be made.
However that in and of itself can be enough to scare a player out of doing this much -- PC's are notoriously fickle about what 'unexpected' danger they will put themselves in.
Don't forget that scrying can be fooled by simple magics too -- a hat of disguise self can really screw with expectations when they are scrying on someone.
I think the spell you offer would be a fine idea.
The number 1 protection against scrying though is the sheer number of people out there and the difficulty in knowing which one you really want to scry on, and what moment is a good one to do so.
Remember if they make the save that's it for the next 24 hours, and in order for scry to work you must:
1. Figure out who you want to scry on.
2. Get what you can to help make the spell work.
3. Cast the spell.
4. Hope they aren't in a lead building or have some protection up.
5. Get past SR.
6. Have them fail the will save.
7. Have them not notice the sensor.
8. Get lucky on your timing so that they aren't surrounded by guards (scry only lasts a minute per level).
9. Teleport to an area you possibly have only seen once.
10. Hope you don't have any mishaps.
11. Hope there aren't any traps waiting for you.
12. Hope there weren't guards around you didn't see in your limited vision with scry.
13. Actually kill the bad guy.
Also there is a feat in the APG that is called teleport tactician that allows you to get actions in on someone teleporting near you.
It one of those 'psuedo fighter only' feats in that it requires disruptive and spellbreaker as prerequisites but it is a great feat:
Prerequisites: Combat reflexes, Disruptive, Spellbreaker.
Benefit: Any creature using a teleportation effect to enter or leave a square threatened by you provokes an attack of opportunity, even if casting defensively or using a supernatural ability.
Remember it doesn't matter if you cast the spell or not -- just that it put you in a square that the person with this feat threatens.
Combined with a shield master this could get nasty fast -- after all they all just arrived and you immediately get an AoO... with your shield which allows you a free bull rush too.
Which means you can bash the fighters away and keep the wizard right at your feat. Combined with stunning assault and your players will never want to do that again.
Non-detection should help.
And, there's all of the mundane things you can do. Think about the look-alikes Saddam Hussein had. Any bad guy worth his salt could EASILY do this in a fantasy setting. Scrying reveals a mundane day at the palace. Meanwhile, the disguised villain is elsewhere.
Keeping your identity a secret is also a help. Many of the spells operate around identity. All PCs would learn is that the Terror of the Isles isn't actually the guy's given name.
Remember, teleport sometimes shunts to a similar location. A bad guy could build similar locations on purpose, and have EVERY guard post in the empire built to the same specs, with a secret room in the basement.
Finally, the anticipate teleportation spells from Spell Compendium are very powerful. Teleporting in to a roomful of readied actions HURTS.
Gentleman, to be fair you never specified a CR range or how important the hypothetical villain was. You said that your PCs are mid-level and asked for villain protection against scrying. At mid-levels we're talking about villains who need to be worthy of the PCs' attention. These are paranoid bastards who have accumulated wealth, if not equally valuable connections. Anyone less would have been taken out by this point in their villainous career by lower level do-gooders.
I simply assumed you were talking about a serious villain with resources here, not Joe the commoner who wants to do bad things. However, there's always the respectable villain-on-a-budget.
As rkraus2 said, lookalikes can work well. The PCs know what the villain looks like and they teleport in to a plaza filled with dozens and dozens of him... who all run in every direction. Ever seen V For Vendetta? Something like that. Simple mundane disguises foil trueseeing.
Frequently changing disguises could help if your villain is sufficiently paranoid. What are your PCs trying to learn from scrying? Do they want to know exactly who the villain is based on a name? Scrying for someone's identity can be thwarted by simply having them wear a mask. Do they just want to know what he's up to? Just show him playing chess or eating or having a normal conversation. Villains only spend about 5% of their day doing bad things. They usually have underlings for the real dirty-work, they live lives too.
If you want to stop scry and fry, try bringing in non-mechanical measures. Make the villain someone untouchable (or virtually so). A powerful political figure or someone the community couldn't function without. The idea that they would risk imprisonment or execution or indirectly hurting many other people may deter them from acting rashly without proof. Let them know in game that if they try that then there will be consequences.
If all else fails and you remain frustrated, take it out of game and remind them they can be scried and fried too. This is a simple concept of Mutually Assured Destruction. I have a policy of detente with my players on things like mage's disjunction, feeblemind, and other things that would just ruin a player's day or make things anti-climactic. Usually these are the things that a player looks at and says "wow, I would really hate to have this used against me, there'd be no fun in this". I don't tell them they cannot do it, just that I won't if they don't. If they breach that then they become viable targets for it as well.
Or, and this might sound crazy, if we're talking about minor villains who can be expendable... let a scry and fry work once or twice. The players don't want to feel stymied at every turn. Not all villains are created equal. Toss them a win in the form of a dumb and unprepared foe and -then- bring out the big guns.
@Luther, there isn't a specific supervillain that they are trying to scry at. Well... not that they know of yet. I am running Kingmaker, and put a heavy twists on the political and scheming type of enemies. So many are agents, minor villains, monsters of some power, and nobility.
What I'm curious about is how identity protection can help with Scrying. If you have a name, can you scry on a person, and what guarantees do you have that it will even get the same person? If you have a description/memory, will it fail if the person was disguised at that time? And if the person is currently disguised and you go on his original description/memory, will you still find him?
Provided you don't have a clear link to that person that is, such as possession or body part.
Identity protection can only help up until the point where they learn the real name/get the lock of hair/know everything about the villain. This shouldn't happen until you're looking at the endgame for that particular evil-doer.
I am fairly familiar with Kingmaker and probably some of the villains you have in mind. If you wish, we could discuss it in spoiler tags or possibly another spoiler-marked thread and the specific villains with the realistic precautions they may (or may not) take. I suspect I know where your PCs may be in the story :P
Truly, as a player, you don't have any guarantee that you'll get the person you mean... especially if you aren't even certain who you mean. That's all DM judgement territory.
If a player of mine were to scry on someone with information based on a disguise or false information they would either get whoever the person was disguised as (if they were disguised as someone specific) or it might fail. Alternatively they might get someone else entirely who fits the given description (with more vague descriptions getting a more random result). The magic works off of user input, it is subject to user error.
You might find the right balance by thinking though the assumptions. The boss fight is balanced assuming the PC did the rest of the adventure encounter after encoutner. You can let the players know that metagame balace doesn't hold when they're trying to scry & fry. The Boss moves around and people come and go. Since they can't see beyond 10' of the target they really have no way of knowing what they'll port into. Even if he's asleep, they can't assume his guards are a balanced encounter for them. Just tell them, if they want to port in blind, that you'll make a random roll of how many of the other encoutners will be automatically bled into that final boss fight. Might be none, might be several, maybe some will only be nearby and not be warned or arrive in time, maybe multiple encoutners will be all bled together all right there armed and ready, and if that means the encounter's unbeatable and they're porting into certain death, then that's the risk their running to finish the adventure in a decapitation strike rather than a conventional fight. Let them decide - then roll the dice.
@Luther
Meanwhile, Gregori the trolling bard has returned to cause unrest in their kingdom, though through subtler rumour-mongering means. The players are currently chasing after another of their party members who have been kidnapped from personal background reasons. And then there are some hostile nobles who plot against them and their fledgeling kingdom.
And in the future, we have the Bandit King of Pitax, as well as the Tiger clan barbarian lord and the Baron that sends his men to attack Tatzelford, all of which will eventually become readily availible names and personalities to scry and fry on.
Not to mention the hints they have gained about Nyrissa the Nymph, although if they start scrying her, I will make sure they know they are getting way above their heads.
Amulet of Proof Against Detection and Location or more specifically nondetection.
You know what? Missing the most obvious and cheap non-magical solution - Lead. Blocks all scrying.
It would come across as a GM nerf, but lead *was* used historically for everything from pipes (plumer = latin for lead) to roofing. It's dirt cheap (a by-product of silver mining, even) and easy to work with, so much that it's believable that even orcs would use the stuff to prevent water penetration, never mind spying scrying sensors.
You can just decide that stone buildings and dungeon mansonry is often sheathed with a layer of lead sheeting same as modern buildings use insulation and tar paper, and any fortified structure would incorporate it specificially to protect from scrying.
So, it's really only ever likly to scry people outdoors, or maybe in a room with large windows facing the right direction. That effectivly protects anything in a castle or dungeon.
Actually that isn't missing. It's in my first post.
Totally missed it.
So easy to run right to figuing out some high level spell/magic overblown solution, and miss the obvious mundain solution right there, even when smart people like you post it!
I love the flavor on that too, gives an explanation for a wizard's tower, they they want a high observatory to have the best chance to scry without a lead lined wall getting in the way. Or druid's outdoor garden scrying pool in natural surroundings, maybe up on a mountain, same thing.
I wasn't aware lead was used as such a common construction material, but I imagine at least many castles and well built houses has it.
Problem is, they aren't really covered in it. It doesn't specify how much lead is required to block scrying. Having all your walls and ceilings covered in sheats of lead would I imagine. Having a rooftop reinforced by lead? Not sure.
'traditionally' it doesn't take much. Less than an 1/8 of an inch would be 'overkill' territory, but that was in 1st and 2nd edition of D&D (back then gold would work too -- it was a bit like an x-ray at that time).
Pathfinder doesn't have any specific guide.
Lead was common enough that it was used in cheap toys during the era of the Roman Empire.
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@Gentleman ... every time I say your name I feel like Dr. Weird.
Secondly, Gregori is a trip, isn't he? It seems like Kingmaker is just filled with trolls of one form or another. :P
The first possible target for their magical blitzkrieg might be Drelev. Actually I would encourage this but only after the attack on Tatzlford. Let them know early as possible that poor, nearly defenseless Tatzlford would be in dire straits if they don't immediately intervene. Hopping in to zap Drelev would be a bad idea as he's likely surrounded by powerful members of his court but if they try it then it would set a precedent. They would begin developing a reputation for that tactic unless they take the time to kill everyone in Fort Drelev (unlikely, and if they do adjust alignments accordingly). It may suck to lose the stuff about infiltrating the castle but from then on you'd have a reason that future villains would be prepared for that. Drelev could be the bone to throw them, just let them know that such a tactic is a more likely party wipe as they're more likely to have to face everything at once.
That could be a way to talk to them as well out of game: tell them that excessive use of that tactic bypasses a lot of fun encounters, roleplaying and otherwise. Yeah, the eagles could have taken Frodo right to Mount Doom at the beginning but then there'd be no adventure.
Irovetti is another story. He's wealthy, runs a nation, has enemies, and is waist-deep in political intrigue. Those reasons alone are enough for him to have an amulet of proof against detection and location and the fact that he's Up-To-No-Good (tm) with his plans only reinforces the need for it. Easy fix.
As for Armag, he's a bit trickier. The whole barrel of laughs that is his part to play is too good to just skip over. As written, he doesn't have much defense against it but his whole section is just too fun. When they learn his name and try to scry, just have some crazy ancestor spirit interdict the scrying party on his behalf (or something disguised as one, there are some powerful forces at work around him :P). Instead of getting the cheap way out, you can taunt them with the spirit and have it show them the cave entrance/camp. Make it a sort of "You want him? Well come and get him." Have those barbarians throw down the gauntlet and make it insulting. All future attempts fail, but their first one was rewarded by them now knowing a foe and where they can find him. They can't teleport to his inner sanctum, but they can teleport to the start of that dungeon. Be sure to hint that things may be time sensitive, as always.
They should not even know Nyrissa's name anytime soon. The only thing they might have of hers is the cursed ring of animal friendship and that should take care of itself if they try and use it to scry. Might even discourage further attempts. Keep her enigmatic, as she should be, for a time and you'll be fine.
Start looking at scrying as a possible plot hook and method to deliver information (ala Armag) and drive the party along and not the easy back-door in to be always thwarted. Remember, ultimately you control what they learn from it, if anything at all.
Of course, I realize I say all this without really knowing your PCs. I don't know if they'd be willing to change habits for the sake of storytelling (and keeping a sane DM) or if they're more the sort who like to kick in the door and kill the bad guy in the most efficient way possible.
Those are really good ideas Luther, and I'll be sure to remember them when the time comes. Using scry as a clever way to present information is always a good idea, and as you say, there might be other things interfering with the scry such as guardian spirits and whatnot else.
Things tend to get a lot easier when you realize you can work with PCs instead of just against them, even in things that seem lose/lose for you. It takes a lot less force to deflect something in the right direction than trying to stop it entirely... generates a lot less friction too :P
I'm shamed to say that it may have taken me too long to learn that. I was always the "Yes you can" DM. Now I'm the "Yes, but..." one.
I once read on these boards that someone had painted all the buildings in their territory with lead-based paint for the specific purpose of defeating scrying attempts. Seems simple enough.
Yeah honestly though I think the whole thought of 'low level cheap' protections against scrying is a bit much -- after all scrying isn't a very low level thing. You are looking at caster level 7 before you can do it (for bards, wizards, sorcerers, druids and witches -- level 9 for oracles and clerics) and level 9 before you can use teleport with it.
That's 1/3~1/2 of the way through the game at minimum and in many campaigns much more than that. As such the thought that just anyone can have easy and ready protection from it seems a bit... cheap to me.
@Ravingdork
Tax dollars at work. Who needs hospitals?
@Abraham spalding
Cheap and unfeasible too. This is why I'm all for letting it work a couple of times. As a player I wouldn't want to feel like the usefulness of the spell is nullified by the DM. The spell gets a use and the rest of the villains get to learn a valuable lesson about that little combo. They either get their shit together or become another victim.
I generally play that major buildings in a city with high-level spell casters probably has various wards of one type or another. The PCs need to think to overcome problems. Lead-based paints probably wouldn't be enough. It's very possible that only some rooms are warded against the highest-level stuff.
Speaking for myself, I would allow the scrying to work on things I deemed low priority. Something involving a primary antagonist with a lot of weight to throw around that would totally marginalize his capacity as a challenge? Not a chance.
Rules are nice, but I like to think of it more as a framework or guideline than a binding contract. Fill in the blanks. Don't want the players to be able to scry a certain individual? Bam! They can't scry a certain individual. The stone forming his fortress walls were mixed with basilisk blood and heavily enchanted, making it scry proof. Maybe that evil wizard has an amulet of proof against divination. Scrying may not be cheap, but some illusions are. Antagonist not a wizard? That's fine too. Maybe the warlord has a bad history with wizard interference and moved base to a verified dead-magic zone.
Yeah I certainly think people would be aware -- and fully agree with what you are looking to do, just wanted to point it out for the lurkers.
Yeah honestly though I think the whole thought of 'low level cheap' protections against scrying is a bit much -- after all scrying isn't a very low level thing. You are looking at caster level 7 before you can do it (for bards, wizards, sorcerers, druids and witches -- level 9 for oracles and clerics) and level 9 before you can use teleport with it.
That's 1/3~1/2 of the way through the game at minimum and in many campaigns much more than that. As such the thought that just anyone can have easy and ready protection from it seems a bit... cheap to me.
That is why I am less against the scry part, and more against the fry part. I am more inclined to let the scry work, but have traps and defenses against teleportation. Nothing like a trap that hits each member of the group with a high level greater dispel magic upon arrival to take the sting out of their suprise attack. Hallow/Unhallow can have a dimensional anchor attached which greatly extends the area protected, and lets the anchor last for a whole year.
Having run a lot of shadowrun, you learn to match the defenses with the capabilities of the target. Jimmy the low level street punk isn't even going to consider that he needs defenses against scrying. Most kings will have very well thought out defenses. That said, the goal isn't to stop the PCs completely. The goal is to make them work for it. Maybe Jimmy is the brother of one of the guards who usually guards the back door of the palace on Saturday nights. Every fortress has a weakness. It is usually just a matter of looking long enough.
Exactly.
Yeah honestly though I think the whole thought of 'low level cheap' protections against scrying is a bit much -- after all scrying isn't a very low level thing. You are looking at caster level 7 before you can do it (for bards, wizards, sorcerers, druids and witches -- level 9 for oracles and clerics) and level 9 before you can use teleport with it.
That's 1/3~1/2 of the way through the game at minimum and in many campaigns much more than that. As such the thought that just anyone can have easy and ready protection from it seems a bit... cheap to me.
That is why I am less against the scry part, and more against the fry part. I am more inclined to let the scry work, but have traps and defenses against teleportation. Nothing like a trap that hits each member of the group with a high level greater dispel magic upon arrival to take the sting out of their suprise attack. Hallow/Unhallow can have a dimensional anchor attached which greatly extends the area protected, and lets the anchor last for a whole year.
Having run a lot of shadowrun, you learn to match the defenses with the capabilities of the target. Jimmy the low level street punk isn't even going to consider that he needs defenses against scrying. Most kings will have very well thought out defenses. That said, the goal isn't to stop the PCs completely. The goal is to make them work for it. Maybe Jimmy is the brother of one of the guards who usually guards the back door of the palace on Saturday nights. Every fortress has a weakness. It is usually just a matter of looking long enough.
Also an excellent point. In regards to teleportation, you could also borrow a page out of a Monte Cook adventure: dimensional travel and far-distance travel spells have their courses altered by some spell/object in the area, redirecting them to an area of the keep specified by its creator. This allows the PCs quick access to where they're going, while still forcing them to deal with the fortress on your terms. Granted, things like this can't really be recycled, but it should make them start doubting their tactics a little more.
Also an excellent point. In regards to teleportation, you could also borrow a page out of a Monte Cook adventure: dimensional travel and far-distance travel spells have their courses altered by some spell/object in the area, redirecting them to an area of the keep specified by its creator. This allows the PCs quick access to where they're going, while still forcing them to deal with the fortress on your terms. Granted, things like this can't really be recycled, but it should make them start doubting their tactics a little more.
That is a more benign variant of the teleport trap. The classic teleport trap is a trap that redirects all attempts to teleport into an area to a spot about 3 feet above an antimagic field prison cell or some other really bad place.
Dot for great justice! Also, interest.
I've got to mention this as well regarding Kingmaker:
That reminds me. In a lot of settings, Underdark is infused with magic. This makes long distance teleportation unreliable. Also, 3 feet of stone blocks divinations. So the cheapest way to avoid scry and fry may be to live in a deep, dark cave. Not necessarily pratical for ruling the world, but definately cheap.
That reminds me. In a lot of settings, Underdark is infused with magic. This makes long distance teleportation unreliable. Also, 3 feet of stone blocks divinations. So the cheapest way to avoid scry and fry may be to live in a deep, dark cave. Not necessarily pratical for ruling the world, but definately cheap.
And it explains why so many monsters live in dungeons :)
I like "low-tech" countermeasures too, as they allow more story options.
@Stalwart
This sounds like the kind of guy who'd have the means for mindblank if he's that paranoid and that willing to pour out the kingdom's coffers for secrecy.
OK... so according to this thread if my character is being scryed on I should get my will save and know if i save though I wont know why (even if the GM rolls the save in private I should be told I get an ominous feeling of being watched or something when I succed in the save right?
also I should be able to notice a scry sensor on a DC 20+caster level) perception check.
is that an active check or something that can be rolled in secret as I may passively notice the sensor but would otherwise have no idea anything is out of the ordinary.
Is this correct?