You're missing one point...you're a level 8 with twice the WBL of a level 8...or at least +50%. Your WBL is probably closer to a level 10 or 11, if you've been allowed to maximize it.
That easily translates to the next tier up of stat buffers, improved AC, and so forth. An extra +2 Con bonus, +2 Int Bonus, +2 Dex bonus, and +2 AC bonus are going to mean you are basically as tough as any level 9, and you can easily do that with your wealth doubling.
The point wasn't that you were going to be consistently making more xp then your friends, and always be a level behind.
It was that if you've blown 500 xp making 12,500 of gear, you MIGHT be one level behind the rest of the party, because they've got more xp then you.
ONE encounter then gets you back to equal with them...you might as well have not spent any xp at all. In effect, the xp was a useless cost, because it wasn't 'carried', and because you got a bonus.
If you carry the 'real' xp, then being X amount of xp behind is permanent...but 800,000 gp /25 is 32k xp...in 3.5, that's 1.5 levels, so the rest of the party would be 20, you'd be 18.5...but you'd have 1.6 MILLION gp worth of gear.
Yeah. that's a LOT of extra gear. Imagine what you could do with an extra 800k in gear!
You'd also have spent 2.5 years crafting, but that's a different story.
In Pathfinder, the xp track is not additive, it's multiplicative. 32k xp is less then your share of many a high level monster...and the levels are 100k + each. 32K would put you a level behind for a very short period of time. In effect, it's not a cost at all.
===Aelryinth
I still question what you guys wanna tell me.
In 3.5 crafting had the risk that you were lagging behind a level for the offset of being able to have better suited items.
This especially had an impact if you crafted more items than for yourself.
Nowadays you can craft things more easily, even while having lunch (you know, only eat with a fork and the other hand is free for crafting) during your adventures, faster, without having the right spells, and with no risk of ever lagging behind in anything.
So one might say the feat is vastly BETTER than in 3.5 without any offsets seen anywhere while everyone agrees that the drawbacks in 3.5 were managable so it was still a good feat there. This was my point
And still guys like Ashiel hang around who demand TEH FEATZ MUZ HAVE ADVANTAGES ZOMG SO I CAN DOUBLE MY CHARACTER WEALTH AND ZOMG THAT IS NOT ENOUGH I MUST BE ABLE TO CREATE EVERY BROKENATION POSSIBLE WITH THAT BROKENATION TABLE!!!!!!111
Somehow that attitute disgust sme. Are we in the optimization boards here?
I mean those were always fun and really cool but they had it in the title: OPTIMIZATION. So I went over there and let loose all the cheese my brain could come up with without anyone ever thinking this was meant to be honestly ever played or the basis for a comparison.
Nowadays we have such cheese in basic comparisons if a class sucks or not. The class that can cheese the least is obviously a badly designed class (or the best designed if you see it in game design terms)
I just want to point out that Ashiel's a chick.
I just want to point out that Ashiel's a chick.
Everyone on the internet is white, male, mid 20, racist...
Didn't you get the memo!?
It must have gone into my spam folder.
Everyone on the internet is white, male, mid 20, racist...
Didn't you get the memo!?
I would have guessed early 30's....
I actually love fighters. I usually pick my character build last and end up playing a cleric, but when I've been tabbed as the fighter it's always fun.
fighter/cleric/bard is really all I ever TRULY played (3+ month campaigns) and never had a problem role playing different builds or personalities.
Oh and to point 1:
The problem exists with melee and not with all attacks.
Mounted ranged combatants can use the b0rked mounted archery rules. But the fighter is the best archer in the system anyway (because it is so feat intensive).
And take Eldritch Heritage (sylvan) plus Boon Companion and at level 7 you will be either sitting on a Roc raining down doom and despair from above or on your pouncing grabby grab Tiger.
As a GM I would not let take this Heritage. The first level power is also the bloodline power, so this choice would be an exception (you can't gain bloodline powers with eldritch heritage).
Regarding craft, every GM should think on balance in his games. I made some changes to adapt the system to our style, because as group we prefer a game less gear dependant, so magic items are not used as a "medieval tech" that everyone should have to go in adventure. If you think that craft is too easy or fast change it, it's not so hard.
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I just want to point out that Ashiel's a chick.Everyone on the internet is white, male, mid 20, racist...
Didn't you get the memo!?
Racist? Hm, never heard that one before. :o
My favorite is...
The internet...
Where men are men, women are men, and little girls...
Are FBI agents.
As a GM I would not let take this Heritage. The first level power is also the bloodline power, so this choice would be an exception (you can't gain bloodline powers with eldritch heritage).
I'm afraid I'm a bit confused here. Do you mean he can't gain the blood line arcana?
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Here's a quick two-weapon fighter build that I threw together.If anything is wrong then please let me know.
10th level human fighter:
Str:16
Dex:21
Con:14
Int:13
Wis:12
Cha:7
HP: 10d10 + 20
AC: 25 (26 Dodge) ( 29 +3 Combat Expertise) (33 against AoO)
Touch: 19 (Dodge and Combat Expertise) 23 (Against AoO)
Flat-Footed: 20
Fort: +11
Ref: +10
Will: +6 (+ 9 vs Fear)
Spd: 40ft
Init: +5
Feats: Weapon Focus (Longsword), Weapon Focus (Shortsword), Two-Weapon Fighting, Two-Weapon Defense, Dodge, Weapon Specialization (Longsword), Improved Disarm, Mobility, Double Slice, Weapon Finesse (Shortsword), Combat Expertise, Improved Critical (Longsword)
Fighter Abilities: Weapon Training 1 (Longsword), Bravery +3, Weapon Training 2 (Shortsword), Armor Training 2, Bonus feats,
Gear:+3 Longsword, +2 keen shortsword, +3 Breastplate, Cloak of Resistance +2, Boots of Striding and Springing
Skills:
Perception: 9 (1) + 10
Survival: 8 (3 + 1) + 12
Stealth: 9 (5) + 14 -2 = +12
Knowledge: Dungeoneering: 8 (3 + 1) +12
Profession: 8 (3 + 1) + 12
Climb: 9 (3 + 3) – 2 = + 13
Attack: +3 Longsword: +17/+12 1d8 + 10 17-20 x 2 (Improved Critical)
+2 Keen Shortsword: +17 1d6 + 6 17 – 20 x 2 (Keen)
+3 Longsword: +14/+9 (-3 with Combat Expertise)
+2 Keen Shortsword: +14 (-3 Combat Expertise)
I'm thinking about dropping Mobility for something else.
Sometimes I feel that Combat Expertise isn't really worth it at times. I took the feat because I wanted to build a fighter that could adjust his AC round by round depending on the situations.
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And my version of a 10th shield rangerd. compared with the tower shield specialist he would have less Ac (9 points), much less touch ac (9 pints),v10 less hit points, much more (and better) skills, better reflex saves(and evasion). (the fighter can have a much higher CMD against two maneuvers, but it just an option)
when attacking favored enemies and complementing with spells he would have much much better ofensive. The animal companion should be a wolf (for trip), he do not want his enemies moving around he want to two weapon full attack all the time. shield master plus keen kukri and banishing finish would be a very strong combo.
The critical focus chain would be hard (specially because you want two weapon rend) at 11th level he will do more damage but a critical(staggering) from the figther would be devastating.
NOTE: I have doubts with the shield enchantment, how much would cost a +2 keen holy adamantine spiked heavy Shield? how much damage it would do?
NOTE 2: are there an archetpe that would help this build?
10th level Ranger
Str:22
Dex:17
Con:14
Int:10
Wis:14
Cha:7HP: 10d10 + 20
AC: 26 (10+8 Armor, +4 Shield, +3 Dex, +1 deflection)
Touch Ac 14Spd: 30 ft
Fort: +11
Ref: +12
Will: +9Feats: Twf, Itwf, Double slice, power attack, Improved shield bash, shield master, banishing finish, Furius focus.
Ranger abilities:Favored enemy(1,2,3), animal companion, Endurance, favored terrain(1,2), woodlan stride, evasion, swift tracker,
Skills
All the good ones.Attack:+2 keen holy adamantine spiked heavy Shield: +18/10 2d6+14 (+2d6 against evil)...19-20 x2 (Power attack + furious focus)
And +1 kukri : +13/+8 1d4+14... 15-20 x2 (power attack)
Gear: +2 mitrhal breastplate, +2 keen holy adamantine spiked heavy Shield, +1 mithral keen Kukri, Belt of Physical might (str, dex) +2, cloak of resitance +2, ring of pretection +1.
In order to use Furious Focus you have to wield the weapon in two hands.
Furious Focus (Combat)
Even in the midst of fierce and furious blows, you can
find focus in the carnage and your seemingly wild blows
strike home.
Prerequisites: Str 13, Power Attack, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: When you are wielding a two-handed weapon
or a one-handed weapon with two hands, and using
the Power Attack feat, you do not suffer Power Attack’s
penalty on melee attack rolls on the first attack you make
each turn. You still suffer the penalty on any additional
attacks, including attacks of opportunity.
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And my version of a 10th shield rangerd. compared with the tower shield specialist he would have less Ac (9 points), much less touch ac (9 pints),v10 less hit points, much more (and better) skills, better reflex saves(and evasion). (the fighter can have a much higher CMD against two maneuvers, but it just an option)
when attacking favored enemies and complementing with spells he would have much much better ofensive. The animal companion should be a wolf (for trip), he do not want his enemies moving around he want to two weapon full attack all the time. shield master plus keen kukri and banishing finish would be a very strong combo.
The critical focus chain would be hard (specially because you want two weapon rend) at 11th level he will do more damage but a critical(staggering) from the figther would be devastating.
NOTE: I have doubts with the shield enchantment, how much would cost a +2 keen holy adamantine spiked heavy Shield? how much damage it would do?
NOTE 2: are there an archetpe that would help this build?
10th level Ranger
Str:22
Dex:17
Con:14
Int:10
Wis:14
Cha:7HP: 10d10 + 20
AC: 26 (10+8 Armor, +4 Shield, +3 Dex, +1 deflection)
Touch Ac 14Spd: 30 ft
Fort: +11
Ref: +12
Will: +9Feats: Twf, Itwf, Double slice, power attack, Improved shield bash, shield master, banishing finish, Furius focus.
Ranger abilities:Favored enemy(1,2,3), animal companion, Endurance, favored terrain(1,2), woodlan stride, evasion, swift tracker,
Skills
All the good ones.Attack:+2 keen holy adamantine spiked heavy Shield: +18/10 2d6+14 (+2d6 against evil)...19-20 x2 (Power attack + furious focus)
And +1 kukri : +13/+8 1d4+14... 15-20 x2 (power attack)
Gear: +2 mitrhal breastplate, +2 keen holy adamantine spiked heavy Shield, +1 mithral keen Kukri, Belt of Physical might (str, dex) +2, cloak of resitance +2, ring of pretection +1.
You know your shield costs 53,000 gp?
+2 keen, holy so far is a +5 weapon and then an extra 3,000 for it being adamantine.
If you guys are trying to determine best dual-wielding damage and such, Fighter wins. I noted earlier that my favorite types of Fighters are either dual-wield meatgrinders or super-shot archers, because they either A) deal so much damage that virtually nothing can survive their full attack, or B) they can full attack almost anything constantly for strong damage.
However, a dual-wield fighter is best done with a double weapon. A quarterstaff is the cheap (in money and feats) route, but other weapons like the double-sword, double-axe, dire-mace, and similar things are possible with a feat spent. Personally I save the feat and go with staffs, because the damage bonus is negligible.
When building a dual-wielding Fighter, Strength is the priority, with the desire to just have enough Dexterity to qualify for your feats. I recommend at least 15, 15, 13, 10, 12, and 7 before racials. If you're human and thus can make up the Int loss, 18, 15, 13, 7, 13, 7 is even better.
Again, assuming human, starting feats should look something like: Two-Weapon Fighting, Power Attack, and Double Slice, which will maximize your effectiveness in melee.
You have your BAB +4 to hit, and a -3 to hit (power attack and TWF), giving you two attacks at +2/+2 and 1d6+9/1d6+7, as double-slice removes the penalty to your off hand strength damage. Sadly, the power attack penalty remains.
By 20th level, having full-on weapon specialization, dueling gloves, weapon training +4, and a +12 strength modifier, and +1 speed / +1 speed staff, you can achieve an attack routine that looks about like this.
To Hit
BAB +20
Str +12
Training +6
Specialization +2
Weapon +1
Power Attack -6
TWF -2
Damage
Strength +18
Power Attack +18/+9
Training +6
Specialization +4
Weapon +1
Total: +47 main hand, +38 off hand
Total routine: +33/+33/+33/+33/+28/+28/+23/+23/+18/+18
Damage Per Hit: 1d6+47/1d6+47/1d6+38/1d6+38/1d6+47/1d6+38/1d6+47/1d6+38/1d6+47/1d6+38
Average damage assuming all attacks land: 375
It's really nice if you have a mage-friend to telekinesis you into a badguy, which slams the badguy for damage, then places you adjacent to him to full attack. Also, if you have a mage friend to cast greater magic weapon, you get an extra +4 to hit and +4 to damage on all attacks. Heroism or greater heroism is nice too. Inspire Courage pulls extra duty here as well.
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It's really nice if you have a mage-friend to telekinesis you into a badguy, which slams the badguy for damage, then places you adjacent to him to full attack. Also, if you have a mage friend to cast greater magic weapon, you get an extra +4 to hit and +4 to damage on all attacks. Heroism or greater heroism is nice too. Inspire Courage pulls extra duty here as well.
*blink*
Wow...ok first off read Telekinesis. Second off, if you are hurled into someone, causing damage, you would also sustain damage.
Second, greater magic weapon is an enhancement bonus...just like whatever weapon the fighter will be using by that level...so it doesn't stack.
Heroism and inspire courage are fine I guess...so you are batting .500.
Great in baseball, not so good here.
Where are we posting for the RoTRL challenge and have we found any judges.
Wow...ok first off read Telekinesis. Second off, if you are hurled into someone, causing damage, you would also sustain damage.
To play the devils advocate here gnomes and halflings tend not to weigh very much, and while a fully armor spiked fighter may sustain damage it is unlikely to be as much as the robed necromancer who just had said fighter slam into him.
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To play the devils advocate here gnomes and halflings tend not to weigh very much, and a fully armor spiked fighter may sustain damage it is unlikely to be as much as the robed necromancer who just had said fighter slam into him.
Wow...ok first off read Telekinesis. Second off, if you are hurled into someone, causing damage, you would also sustain damage.
1d6 per 25 lbs isn't going to be much when throwing gnomes and halflings.
1d6 per 25 lbs isn't going to be much when throwing gnomes and halflings.To play the devils advocate here gnomes and halflings tend not to weigh very much, and a fully armor spiked fighter may sustain damage it is unlikely to be as much as the robed necromancer who just had said fighter slam into him.
Wow...ok first off read Telekinesis. Second off, if you are hurled into someone, causing damage, you would also sustain damage.
No. But it's a whole lot when said fighter gets his bearings enough to full attack.
Honestly it's a blatant cheese of a sort that I tend to smack players over the head with newspapers about.
*blink*Wow...ok first off read Telekinesis. Second off, if you are hurled into someone, causing damage, you would also sustain damage.
Yeah, I never said you wouldn't. You only take 1d6 points of damage though, assuming that the guy you slam into is considered a hard surface. In fact, if you're a 20th level Fighter or Barbarian, the odds of actually taking damage at all is slim due to your DR.
Violent Thrust: Alternatively, the spell energy can be spent in a single round. You can hurl one object or creature per caster level (maximum 15) that are within range and all within 10 feet of each other toward any target within 10 feet per level of all the objects. You can hurl up to a total weight of 25 pounds per caster level (maximum 375 pounds at 15th level).
You must succeed on attack rolls (one per creature or object thrown) to hit the target with the items, using your base attack bonus + your Intelligence modifier (if a wizard) or Charisma modifier (if a sorcerer). Weapons cause standard damage (with no Strength bonus; note that arrows or bolts deal damage as daggers of their size when used in this manner). Other objects cause damage ranging from 1 point per 25 pounds (for less dangerous objects) to 1d6 points of damage per 25 pounds (for hard, dense objects). Objects and creatures that miss their target land in a square adjacent to the target.
Creatures who fall within the weight capacity of the spell can be hurled, but they are allowed Will saves (and spell resistance) to negate the effect, as are those whose held possessions are targeted by the spell.
If a telekinesed creature is hurled against a solid surface, it takes damage as if it had fallen 10 feet (1d6 points).
In either case, hit or miss, you are now ground-zero with your opponent, in melee, and you've dodged the AoOs that it would have taken to get close to him. It's full-attack time baby!
Second, greater magic weapon is an enhancement bonus...just like whatever weapon the fighter will be using by that level...so it doesn't stack.
You could try reading. The weapon he was using in the example is a +1 speed weapon. GMW gives a +5 enhancement bonus at 15th level. It overlaps with the weapon, giving you an additional +4 to hit and damage, like I said.
Heroism and inspire courage are fine I guess...so you are batting .500.
Great in baseball, not so good here.
Just need better umpires, it seems.
1d6 per 25 lbs isn't going to be much when throwing gnomes and halflings.To play the devils advocate here gnomes and halflings tend not to weigh very much, and a fully armor spiked fighter may sustain damage it is unlikely to be as much as the robed necromancer who just had said fighter slam into him.
Wow...ok first off read Telekinesis. Second off, if you are hurled into someone, causing damage, you would also sustain damage.
No. But it's a whole lot when said fighter gets his bearings enough to full attack.
Honestly it's a blatant cheese of a sort that I tend to smack players over the head with newspapers about.
Having your Wizard use you as a projectile is cheesy? It's teamwork! If it's good enough for Teh Black Mages then it's good enough for my wizard! :3
EDIT: Cheesy is chucking 375 lbs. of giant arrows at something. :3
You know your shield costs 53,000 gp?
No i did not know it :P
But the +2 are shield bonus not armor bonus, oh well I really do not konw.
+2 keen, holy so far is a +5 weapon and then an extra...
A shield +2, +1 Holy is a +2 Peice of armor, +3 Weapon, with +3000 gp for Adamantine.
that means it is 4k +18k +3k = 25k, not 53k.
Weapon enhancements on a shield are tabulated completely independent of the armor value.
The general destination for a shield is +5 Shield of Bashing, +5 Defender. Once you get Shield Mastery, you dump all the Defender into AC, and use the Shield Mastery bonus for offense and defense. You walk around with a +12 AC from your shield.
==Aelryinth
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Creatures who fall within the weight capacity of the spell can be hurled, but they are allowed Will saves (and spell resistance) to negate the effect, as are those whose held possessions are targeted by the spell.If a telekinesed creature is hurled against a solid surface, it takes damage as if it had fallen 10 feet (1d6 points).
If you move them, you move them at 20 feet a round.
If you hurl them with a violent thrust they take damage and act functionally as a weapon. If you hit, in your game I supposed that has no effect on balance, and if you miss...well I guess that has no effect in your game either.
Your game is...interesting...
As to the +1 speed weapon, if you are 20th level and all you are using are +1 speed weapons you have much, much bigger problems. If fighters in your game are using weapons with a total enhancement of +4 at 20th level, that would explain your negative view of fighters...
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Having your Wizard use you as a projectile is cheesy? It's teamwork! If it's good enough for Teh Black Mages then it's good enough for my wizard! :3
The prosecution rests your honor.
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Creatures who fall within the weight capacity of the spell can be hurled, but they are allowed Will saves (and spell resistance) to negate the effect, as are those whose held possessions are targeted by the spell.If a telekinesed creature is hurled against a solid surface, it takes damage as if it had fallen 10 feet (1d6 points).
If you move them, you move them at 20 feet a round.
If you hurl them with a violent thrust they take damage and act functionally as a weapon. If you hit, in your game I supposed that has no effect on balance, and if you miss...well I guess that has no effect in your game either.
Your game is...interesting...
As to the +1 speed weapon, if you are 20th level and all you are using are +1 speed weapons you have much, much bigger problems. If fighters in your game are using weapons with a total enhancement of +4 at 20th level, that would explain your negative view of fighters...
Creatures who fall within the weight capacity of the spell can be hurled, but they are allowed Will saves (and spell resistance) to negate the effect, as are those whose held possessions are targeted by the spell.If a telekinesed creature is hurled against a solid surface, it takes damage as if it had fallen 10 feet (1d6 points).
If you move them, you move them at 20 feet a round.
If you hurl them with a violent thrust they take damage and act functionally as a weapon. If you hit, in your game I supposed that has no effect on balance, and if you miss...well I guess that has no effect in your game either.
Your game is...interesting...
As to the +1 speed weapon, if you are 20th level and all you are using are +1 speed weapons you have much, much bigger problems. If fighters in your game are using weapons with a total enhancement of +4 at 20th level, that would explain your negative view of fighters...
*reads telekinesis*
Yeah, nothing here about the hurled individual falling prone. Nothing at all. It does say even if you miss the hurled individual lands in a square adjacent to your target.
You really do like making stuff don't you?
EDIT: As to the speed weapon thing, let me just say: Pfft. There was a reason I didn't give the example TWFer +5 weapons of amazing awesomeness. It wasn't needed to demonstrate the sicktastic attack routine, and it was cheap. A +1 speed/+1 speed staff is 64,600 gp. Pretty minimum that. Less than the cost of a single +6 weapon. It should fit into WBL pretty easily. If you have a party mage, he can sac a 3rd level spell to turn it into a +5 speed weapon all day long.
So yeah, resource management and not wanting to over load the example, so as to clearly demonstrate that the awesomeness was coming primarily from the Fighter.
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*reads telekinesis*
Yeah, nothing here about the hurled individual falling prone. Nothing at all. It does say even if you miss the hurled individual lands in a square adjacent to your target.
You really do like making stuff don't you?
The fact that you fully admit you are picking up a player and throwing them at an enemy as a weapon, while questioning why I would think that would have any kind negative effect on the thrown party being able to act normally on their turn in the same round is exactly why I question your approach to the game.
Thank you for providing an example that so clearly makes my point. I'll have to remember to reference this later.
*reads telekinesis*
Yeah, nothing here about the hurled individual falling prone. Nothing at all. It does say even if you miss the hurled individual lands in a square adjacent to your target.
You really do like making stuff don't you?
The fact that you fully admit you are picking up a player and throwing them at an enemy as a weapon, while questioning why I would think that would have any kind negative effect on the thrown party being able to act normally on their turn in the same round is exactly why I question your approach to the game.
Thank you for providing an example that so clearly makes my point. I'll have to remember to reference this later.
You do that.
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EDIT: As to the speed weapon thing, let me just say: Pfft. There was a reason I didn't give the example TWFer +5 weapons of amazing awesomeness. It wasn't needed to demonstrate the sicktastic attack routine, and it was cheap. A +1 speed/+1 speed staff is 64,600 gp. Pretty minimum that. Less than the cost of a single +6 weapon. It should fit into WBL pretty easily. If you have a party mage, he can sac a 3rd level spell to turn it into a +5 speed weapon all day long.
So yeah, resource management and not wanting to over load the example, so as to clearly demonstrate that the awesomeness was coming primarily from the Fighter.
Considering 20th level WBL is 880,000 gp, you may want to splurge on the weapon for the fighter, if only to overcome damage reduction.
YMMV
Someone can dimension door the fighter there. The caster is the only one that would lose actions, but the others do not.
Obviously Ciretose doesnt know about the fastball special.
Someone can dimension door the fighter there. The caster is the only one that would lose actions, but the others do not.
And you would want to dimension door into melee why?
Maybe if you were an eldritch knight. Then it would be a good way to get you both into melee quickly.
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Someone can dimension door the fighter there. The caster is the only one that would lose actions, but the others do not.
Oh absolutely. Before they changed DD in pathfinder for the Monk in 3.5 this was a great monk cheese move.
Unfortunately doing this also puts the caster in range of a full attack from the monster if the fighter doesn't one shot it before the monster can act, which is why it isn't often done unless combined with other planning (like greater invis and such)
However magical dwarf tossing into a full attack is something else entirely at my table, and I suspect at your table as well Bob.
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There IS a spell to transport hte fighter and he would have a free attack
Telekinetic Charge
School evocation [force]; Level sorcerer/wizard 4CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, SEFFECT
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target one willing creature
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw Will negates (harmless); Spell Resistance yes (harmless)DESCRIPTION
You telekinetically launch an ally across the battlefield to anywhere within this spell’s range. While moving, your ally is flying just above the ground unless you wish otherwise. Movement from this spell provokes attacks of opportunity as normal, although you can lift your ally over objects or out of enemy reach, as long as your ally remains within this spell’s range. If your ally lands adjacent to an opponent, he can spend an immediate action to make a melee attack against that opponent with a +2 bonus on the attack roll.
Strangely this spell doesn't involve them being thrown as a projectile weapon.
It's also close range, meaning the caster is in close range as well.
I don't have a problem with the fighter being moved into an attack position, I have a problem with them being thrown as a weapon.
But I prefer not to try to manipulate for loophole exploits, as I try to play RAI. YMMV.
Obviously Ciretose doesnt know about the fastball special.Call me wacky, I would think getting hurled as a weapon at a creature would be at least as limiting to the number of attack you can make in the same round as walking over to the same creature.
But again, YMMV
No, never heard of it obviously.
And while I agree on the point about limited number of attacks I think the point of the maneuver is smashing your scary guy into their back line and then laughing uncontrollably as said guy unleashes hell upon said back line.
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Obviously Ciretose doesnt know about the fastball special.Call me wacky, I would think getting hurled as a weapon at a creature would be at least as limiting to the number of attack you can make in the same round as walking over to the same creature.
But again, YMMV
No, never heard of it obviously.
And while I agree on the point about limited number of attacks I think the point of the maneuver is smashing your scary guy into their back line and then laughing uncontrollably as said guy unleashes hell upon said back line.
No, I'm up on my X-Men. But it is more a charge attack than a pounce attack.
Like I said, I would obviously allow the move for an attack, but to let a full round attack follow without at the very least a hell of an acrobatics roll...not so much.
Obviously Ciretose doesnt know about the fastball special.Call me wacky, I would think getting hurled as a weapon at a creature would be at least as limiting to the number of attack you can make in the same round as walking over to the same creature.
But again, YMMV
No, never heard of it obviously.
And while I agree on the point about limited number of attacks I think the point of the maneuver is smashing your scary guy into their back line and then laughing uncontrollably as said guy unleashes hell upon said back line.
Exactly!
Obviously Ciretose doesnt know about the fastball special.Call me wacky, I would think getting hurled as a weapon at a creature would be at least as limiting to the number of attack you can make in the same round as walking over to the same creature.
But again, YMMV
No, never heard of it obviously.
And while I agree on the point about limited number of attacks I think the point of the maneuver is smashing your scary guy into their back line and then laughing uncontrollably as said guy unleashes hell upon said back line.
No, I'm up on my X-Men. But it is more a charge attack than a pounce attack.
Like I said, I would obviously allow the move for an attack, but to let a full round attack follow without at the very least a hell of an acrobatics roll...not so much.
Every house has its rules. I have no reason to add more rules to existing mechanics just to spite the players. They're already beyond mortal limits by comparison to reality by the time they can pull off this little diddy. You'd just be putting a skill tax on the technique, or making Rangers and Paladins look even better with their good Reflex saves.
Every house has its rules.
Agreed. Some are logical and some involve being used as a projectile effecting your attacks less than walking, stealthily throwing glowing rocks down hallway and having characters with 7 charisma be described as "dashing"
YMMV
1) Not a house rule.
2) Note a house rule. Also not what I said.3) Not a house rule.
EDIT: I'm done here. Sorry, all, but I'm tired of dealing with Ciretose and I just have no further will to keep engaging in this thread. I'm going to leave before I get any posts modded.