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We know that Samsarans give birth to humans, and those humans can sometimes be reincarnated as Samsarans. But who gives birth to the reincarnated Samsarans? Humans?
No one gives birth to a "reincarnated Samsaran."
All samsarans are the result of reincarnations. Samsaran children exist when something else dies and is reincarnated into a samsaran child body.
So the samsaran child just materializes somewhere, fully formed?
Ah, you know, I think I'm conflating the Pathfinder definition of reincarnation, as described by the reincarnate spell, with the real-world definition of reincarnation, which usually implies that the spirit is literally born back into the world.
Is that the case, James?
Creative Director
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No one gives birth to a "reincarnated Samsaran."
All samsarans are the result of reincarnations. Samsaran children exist when something else dies and is reincarnated into a samsaran child body.
So the samsaran child just materializes somewhere, fully formed?
Ah, you know, I think I'm conflating the Pathfinder definition of reincarnation, as described by the reincarnate spell, with the real-world definition of reincarnation, which usually implies that the spirit is literally born back into the world.
Is that the case, James?
Yeah... the reincarnation going on with the samsaran race (which also happens to other spirits who come back as wildly different things) is NOT the same as the reincarnate spell. Two different things. When we talk specifically about the druid spell, we italicize it.
And yeah... the samsaran child materializes somewhere, fully formed. At what age is variable... might be an infant, might be a teenager, might be in between. Some of them probably die fast, to be honest... but also a fair amount just naturally incarnate in areas where samsarans are common, as if the presence of many samsarans acts as a sort of magnet for a reincarnating samsaran soul.
And yeah... the samsaran child materializes somewhere, fully formed. At what age is variable... might be an infant, might be a teenager, might be in between. Some of them probably die fast, to be honest... but also a fair amount just naturally incarnate in areas where samsarans are common, as if the presence of many samsarans acts as a sort of magnet for a reincarnating samsaran soul.
Now I get it. Thanks!
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So a Samsaran reincarnates anywhere from a child to a teenager. How much knowledge do they actually possess at this point? Would they possess basic linguistic skills from their previous life allowing them to communicate, as well as a basic understanding of social topics? Or is their mind a blank slate like newborn? Or somehwere in between?
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Creative Director
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So a Samsaran reincarnates anywhere from a child to a teenager. How much knowledge do they actually possess at this point? Would they possess basic linguistic skills from their previous life allowing them to communicate, as well as a basic understanding of social topics? Or is their mind a blank slate like newborn? Or somehwere in between?
They retain enough of their previous live's memories to function as a "blank slate" of their new reincarnated age, but as if they'd progressed naturally to that age as regards communication skills and maturity. No real memories of their own, but they can speak and function normally for a person at that age.
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Creative Director
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This whole reincarnation thing feels so contrived and confusing to me. I feel like it would be easier to just say they're born to human parents and samsaran children are typically taken away to be raised properly. Simple and no weird logic issues anywhere.
Removing the reincarnation element from the samsaran race also, in my opinion, robs the race of its primary theme and "claim to fame." Without it... they're just weird blue people.
Reincarnation is a significant part of many Asian beliefs, and as such I wanted to make sure that it had an equally significant role in Tian Xia. If the samsaran's association with reincarnation causes that much of a problem, my advice would be to simply cut them from your campaign, honestly.
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I don't mean removing the reincarnation thing. They'd still be reincarnated souls, with memories of their past lives and such. But randomly reappearing somewhere as a little kid or teenager is pretty weird (and doesn't seem to be like the Asian-style reincarnation ar all anyway!) And it's fraught with a thousand questions in my mind where this race just doesn't make sense.
Being born to anyone, anywhere, being not the beautiful child you expected but a strange wide-eyed blue baby, perhaps even being able to speak from birth (or at least very early), having strange memories and dreams and knowledge that there is no way of them to have known otherwise... this to me makes sense and meshes with actual Asian religions. And isn't removing ther schtick at all. And also doesn't involve some bizarre manner of them just poofing into existance.
How come their LG patron god doesn't care about a bunch of his own race dying because they got reincarnated into the middle of the Valashmai Jungles or in the oni land?
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I don't mean removing the reincarnation thing. They'd still be reincarnated souls, with memories of their past lives and such. But randomly reappearing somewhere as a little kid or teenager is pretty weird (and doesn't seem to be like the Asian-style reincarnation ar all anyway!) And it's fraught with a thousand questions in my mind where this race just doesn't make sense.
Being born to anyone, anywhere, being not the beautiful child you expected but a strange wide-eyed blue baby, perhaps even being able to speak from birth (or at least very early), having strange memories and dreams and knowledge that there is no way of them to have known otherwise... this to me makes sense and meshes with actual Asian religions. And isn't removing ther schtick at all. And also doesn't involve some bizarre manner of them just poofing into existance.
How come their LG patron god doesn't care about a bunch of his own race dying because they got reincarnated into the middle of the Valashmai Jungles or in the oni land?
Part of being a Samsaran is forging your soul through adversity and trial over the course of multiple, perhaps hundreds, of incarnations. For some, that means going though a lot of short childhoods. And they don't normally get reincarnated in super remote areas like Valashmai... again... when they DO incarnate, regions of heavy samsaran settlement act sort of like "soul magnets" and draw the incarnation close, so they manifest relatively near areas where other samsarans will be able to help... or at the very least where other humanoids might be able to help.
It's certainly the race in the book that most needs more than a single page of flavor text, though; as I mentioned earlier, it was EASILY the toughest one to fit onto a single page.
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If the 'kids appearing' thing doesn't work aesthetically, it's easy enough to say that Samsaran women don't get pregnant unless A) they are trying to do so and B) an appropriate spirit is waiting to reincarnate, and that their little blue babies are the reincarnations of other individuals. Or the 'Samsaran babies are born to other races, and then brought to the nearest Samsaran to be dropped off' idea.
A whole raft of Samsaran specific traits related to having been reborn from another species, could be funky. A former Tengu soul, reborn as a Samsaran, might retain a single martial sword proficiency (or exotic sword proficiency, if he starts the game already having all martial proficiencies, as a Ranger or something), or a gift for languags, for example.
On the other hand, the 'appearing kids' concept has potential as well. There might be certain specific areas where children are more likely to appear, like sacred caves, or spirit-infested glades in the woods, or whatever. Some might be found floating on giant lily pads in the middle of a special pool, or even pull their way from oversized pods grown from a rare tree. Those locations would be monitored around the clock by adult Samsarans, who watch out for them (and send explorers around the various surrounding nations, to locate any such 'birthing places' that they haven't already secured).
The location of a Samsaran's 'birth' might also give rise to special traits. One that was dragged into a Samsaran community by a fox might have different traits than one that bubbled up from a sacred hot mineral spring in the mountains.
Maybe all sorts of options happen;
Some Samsarans are born to Samsaran parents (and are still reincarnated souls).
Some Samsarans are born to non-Samsaran parents (and are raised by their birth parents, which might be kinda funky if 'mom and dad' where Nagaji or something!).
Some Samsarans just appear in certain places, probably watched over by adult Samsarans, and quickly are bundled up and taken to a home.
Some unlucky Samsarans just appear in *random* places (and the vast majority of them are eaten by wild animals or die of exposure within the next minutes or hours).
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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The location of a Samsaran's 'birth' might also give rise to special traits. One that was dragged into a Samsaran community by a fox might have different traits than one that bubbled up from a sacred hot mineral spring in the mountains.
Sounds like a great way to tie in a Samsaran Sorcerer's bloodline, or an Oracle's mystery.
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Sounds like a great way to tie in a Samsaran Sorcerer's bloodline, or an Oracle's mystery.The location of a Samsaran's 'birth' might also give rise to special traits. One that was dragged into a Samsaran community by a fox might have different traits than one that bubbled up from a sacred hot mineral spring in the mountains.
Ooh, good catch.
A Samsaran child born to another race might also explain an unusual critter bloodline. A Samsaran child with the Draconic Sorcerer bloodline might have battered his way out of a dragon's egg as a child, to the surprise of his 'mother,' who arranged for her minions to go leave the little blue-skinned mammal on someone's doorstep.
A Samsaran who was found floating in a tidal pool in a seaside cave could have a natural tendency for the Waves domain as an Oracle, while one found among the bones of a 'sky burial' in the mountains might be suited for Wind or Bones.
It's mildly ironic that this particular flavor works so well for Sorcerers and Oracles, while Charisma is the one mental attribute that Samsarans don't have a strong leaning towards... :)
Still, a wizard with an elemental school, witch with a nature-y patron, or cleric or druid with air/earth/water/fire/weather/animal/plant domains could match up flavor and mechanics this way.
I thought of something today i thought i would add to this. Since it covers the whole Re-incarnation thing.
So, If Bob Dies and a Druid casts Reincarnation on him (the spell) and he is Reincarnated as a Samsarang... when he dies later does he then get braught into the whole Samsarang reincarnation thing? Technically his soul isnt that of a Samsarang. But i think Game mechanically he techncally would be reincarnated int he spiritual sense..
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Creative Director
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I thought of something today i thought i would add to this. Since it covers the whole Re-incarnation thing.
So, If Bob Dies and a Druid casts Reincarnation on him (the spell) and he is Reincarnated as a Samsarang... when he dies later does he then get braught into the whole Samsarang reincarnation thing? Technically his soul isnt that of a Samsarang. But i think Game mechanically he techncally would be reincarnated int he spiritual sense..
That'd depend on the cosmic balance of souls and the fickle fortunes of karma.
Bumping this for extreme usefulness (thanks JJ)!
I've decided to play a Samsaran in my groups upcoming Wrath of the Righteous campaign and this thread has been ridiculously helpful! Thank you James Jacobs.
Cool. This helps for my background.
I would hope the standard two week window still applies. Otherwise you'd have the very strange case of the only race from an in-world perspective to routinely be able to come back from the dead being the one race from a mechanical perspective where you're forced to bring in a new character to replace them.
I'm guessing there'd also be some element of choice, i.e. if a samsaran adventurer knows there's a reasonable chance that his party will try to bring him back, he'll make some effort to delay the natural reincarnation process.
So why do Samasarans give birth to humans and not any other race?
My wild hypothesis is that the population of "humans" that spontaneously appeared in Tian Xia after Earthfall, believed to be the reincarnated Azlanti, were in fact reincarnated as the first samsarans and the Tian humans descend from their children.
Having Samsarans pop up somewhere out of nothing as non-infants eliminates the problems that would be created by having them born into human families and taking 60+ years to mature -- so we finally have a race for which that particular aging pattern makes sense.
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I'm not certain I understand what you mean, since it has already been established up-thread that Samsarans are the result of their own form of Reincarnation, and not via conventional birth. Or did I miss something somewhere?This is a concept that is supposed to sound cool I guess.
But as a parent say a father, what are you supposed to do thank the Samsaran?
"Thank you O Samsaran, for coming in place of the child that I was to have. What happened to HIS soul by the way? Did he never happen? By the way, I'm curious, was I essential to this process? Obviously you needed a womb for gestation, but did you need my contribution? Could you have used any available virgin perhaps?
Thank you Samasaran, thank you so very much for inflicting... I mean blessing us with your presence."
Whole thing just sounds kind of funny if you think about it a certain way.
As an adoptive father I feel it would be awesome if Samsarans appeared to families and individuals who were unable to have children (same-sex, multi-species, infertility, singletons, whatever) in response to prayers to Pharasma (who, is, after all, the goddess of childbirth).
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If it helps, in modern terminology, Samsarans don't "reincarnate" so much as they "respawn."