Are there any size restrictions when grappling? What if you are a monster using grab?
There are a number of contradictory rules on the matter and I'm wondering if a consensus was ever reached.
Grab i believe is one size catagory smaller.
As for grappling i think a fine creature can grapple a colossol by the rules if it makes the check.
Grab is restricted to a creature of your size or smaller. It was stealth errata'd when bestiary 2 came out.
As for trying grapple without grab there is no size limit.
I never saw a size restriction for a regular grapple. I will check again though. As for grab I will post the rules in my next post.
Grab (Ex) If a creature with this special attack hits with the indicated attack (usually a claw or bite attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. Unless otherwise noted, grab can only be used against targets of a size equal to or smaller than the creature with this ability.
I see no size limit on a regular grapple.
It seems odd to me that something would be "stealth errata'd" in a new book and yet not errata'd in earlier books.
It has been errata'd for bestiary 1. That was done a while ago, IIRC.
It seems odd to me that something would be "stealth errata'd" in a new book and yet not errata'd in earlier books.It has been errata'd for bestiary 1. That was done a while ago, IIRC.Where at? The PRD doesn't seem to reflect that.
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RD the wording is there. They just moved it to the bottom. I will bold it for you.
Grab (Ex) If a creature with this special attack hits with the indicated attack (usually a claw or bite attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. NOTE HOW THE TEXT HAS BEEN COMPLETELY OMITTED IN THIS INSTANCE? The creature has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply to use the part of its body it used in the grab to hold the opponent. If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a –20 penalty on its CMB check to make and maintain the grapple, but does not gain the grappled condition itself. A successful hold does not deal any extra damage unless the creature also has the constrict special attack. If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold. Otherwise, it deals constriction damage as well (the amount is given in the creature's descriptive text).
Creatures with grab receive a +4 bonus on combat maneuver checks made to start and maintain a grapple.
Unless otherwise noted, grab works only against opponents no larger than the same size category as the creature. If the creature can use grab on sizes other than the default, this is noted in the creature's Special Attacks line.
Format: grab; Location: individual attacks.
Format: grab (Colossal); Location: Special Attacks.
I think they should have used the exact same wording, but it is there.
edit:ninja'd by 31 seconds. That is what I get for trying to be all precise.
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What are you talking about, Concerro?
;P
Creatures with grab receive a +4 bonus on combat maneuver checks made to start and maintain a grapple.
So, is it easier to a creature with grab to maintain a normally initiated grapple with a creature larger than its grab limit?
Yes it is.
Digging up an old thread here - but does anyone know if the same applies to a Summoners Eildon with the Grab evolution?
In APG it says "This ability only works on creatures of a size one category smaller than the eidolon or smaller"
I am wondering if this should be corrected to reflect the universal monster rules and grab?
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Until it is errata'd specifically an eidolon's grab ability is different than normal and the errata doesn't apply.
Note with the release of bestiary 4 the old grab rules are in effect so you can only grab something one size smaller than you.
I read somewhere one of the Devs explaining about he change to Grab, basically alot of snakes are medium size and are used as low level encounters for Pc's But couldnt actually grab them. Probly the fact that rl snakes of the same size can easily snag humans resulted in the change,
i didnt know it had reverted back with bestiary 4
Without an errata to the Bestiaries 1-3 and the PRD the Bestiary 4 entry is the outlier and is probably the one that is not correct.
Just because it is the most recent bestiary published does not mean it is a change to the rules. It is more likely that it is incorrect.
Summary: we have three Bestiaries and the PRD saying it is same size or smaller and one (more recent) Bestiary saying it is one size smaller or smaller. I would tend to side with the three books and the PRD unless they errata them.
So bottom line - regardless of the inconsistencies - the Eildon functions same as Bestiary 4, which is suspected to be incorrect?
Doesn't make sense - might make a house rule on this one
Schade, in general, the Eidolon functions as it's own thing with it's own set of rules just like Animal Companions do.
With that said, in the Grab ability (Bestiary 1-3 and PRD version) it states that it is the same size or smaller unless stated otherwise. The Eidolon's version of grab would be a pretty clear example of stating otherwise.
Of course, whether the intent of the Eidolon is to conform to the general grab rule and it simply wasnt errata'd when the Bestiary (1-3 and PRD) was is anyone's guess.