Just a quick post to ask how folks would like fast travel handled in the game?
Personally I don't see fast travel as a viable part of the gameplay, if they intend to have a player made world and market. Things such as smuggling, import and export become irrelevant.
Instead I'd like to see something similar to EVE, where you can AFK travel but it takes longer and you're also more liable to being raided or robbed without a chance at defense.
I can see this behaving well in a caravan type scenario (similar to a bus system, really). You go to a caravan section where NPC traders with carts and horses depart at regular intervals to different destinations. After talking to someone and letting them know where you want to go, your character will automatically board and disembark wagons to make their way to your desired destination.
Maybe Guild/Corporation/Clan run villages and towns can have the option of where they travel and trade with using this method, allowing trade routes to change, develop and be used by guilds to better manage their resources.
Additionally, players and guilds with access to horses and carts can create this kind of transport for other players, at competitive fees and with the advantage of having caravan guards or alliances with local territories for protection.
Thoughts?
Goblin Squad Member
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Just a quick post to ask how folks would like fast travel handled in the game?
Personally I don't see fast travel as a viable part of the gameplay, if they intend to have a player made world and market. Things such as smuggling, import and export become irrelevant.
Instead I'd like to see something similar to EVE, where you can AFK travel but it takes longer and you're also more liable to being raided or robbed without a chance at defense.
I can see this behaving well in a caravan type scenario (similar to a bus system, really). You go to a caravan section where NPC traders with carts and horses depart at regular intervals to different destinations. After talking to someone and letting them know where you want to go, your character will automatically board and disembark wagons to make their way to your desired destination.
Maybe Guild/Corporation/Clan run villages and towns can have the option of where they travel and trade with using this method, allowing trade routes to change, develop and be used by guilds to better manage their resources.
Additionally, players and guilds with access to horses and carts can create this kind of transport for other players, at competitive fees and with the advantage of having caravan guards or alliances with local territories for protection.
Thoughts?
I also agree with you, I was pretty shocked to see regular refferences to fast travel in ryan's posts (primaraly in stating that criminals will lose access to fast travel and players may be able to fast travel to the scene of a crime.
Maybe if it was done through teleports, but had very limited distances and long cooldowns. Say a town could have a teleporter that can quickly jump you up to 1 city away (provided that city has authorized the use of teleports), and you can only make 1 teleport an hour or so?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm torn. In general, I think Fast Travel is extremely good, and I really think the idea that you have to have walked somewhere the slow way first is a silly, arbitrary restriction.
I expect Fast Travel in PFO will generally require both end points and the intervening road to be under the control of Lawful/Neutral/Good security, and effectively not be subject to PvP anyway.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm torn. In general, I think Fast Travel is extremely good, and I really think the idea that you have to have walked somewhere the slow way first is a silly, arbitrary restriction.
I expect Fast Travel in PFO will generally require both end points and the intervening road to be under the control of Lawful/Neutral/Good security, and effectively not be subject to PvP anyway.
That's true I guess, it can work, and would not give absolute safety as the best resources should be a good distance away from civilization. Still creates some oddity as far as how to not negate the "resources gain the most value taken to multiple places. As well as having distinctly different economies between LG towns. I guess we'll need to wait at least 9 days to figure that out though.
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Goblin Squad Member
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While I wish there were no fast travel (other than the ways that would be available in the P&P...which are rare and expensive), I am sure there will be just to appease the "I can only log in for 23 and 3/4 minutes every other day...I need to be able to get rich and have fun too" crowd.
(Nothing against that crowd, that line or something similar was just used often in earlier discussions...so going for a bit of sarcastic, full-circle continuity in our discussions).
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I say have fast travel but you actually get on a carriage or ship and it travels faster but you are still in game and subject to atk and such.
Also teleport is cool. They should allow you to memorize say 5 locations and at anytime you cast teleport you can chose a memorized location. Even if using a scroll. A "potion" of teleport would send you to the location designated at the time of crafting thus you could memorize a new mine out in the wilds and craft a potion then sell to someone or give to guild mates.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I say have fast travel but you actually get on a carriage or ship and it travels faster but you are still in game and subject to atk and such.
Also teleport is cool. They should allow you to memorize say 5 locations and at anytime you cast teleport you can chose a memorized location. Even if using a scroll. A "potion" of teleport would send you to the location designated at the time of crafting thus you could memorize a new mine out in the wilds and craft a potion then sell to someone or give to guild mates.
I agree with 1 the carriage idea sounds good to me, I have to say teleport itself is open to wide variety of issues unless it is expensive as heck and/or limited to say 1 per hour or even day. Even 2 settable teleport spots per person, completely negates any and all import/export costs as well as distinct economies. Far east has cheaper metal weapons, far west has cheaper leather armor. Poof back and forth swapping the 2 out until the price stabilizes.
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Goblin Squad Member
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My opinions are known...but were I part of the design team I would compromise by requiring fast travel to be PC made and driven. Want fast travel carriages? Sure, but some PC has first to train the ability to drive one, then needs to craft one...then they can run their business in person...including the driving of the carriage with all the passengers/cargo in the back.
And faster travel by no means equals instant or even quick...just faster (and the PCs do not necessarily have to be at their keyboard...would be like traveling in EVE except the AI is another player who is driving.)
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Goblin Squad Member
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There's two things that Ryan could be thinking for "Fast Travel". One is instant or untouchably-automated travel. Think WOW's hearthstones or flight paths. Effectively, you click a button, wait X amount of time (that nothing can happen to you during) and you're there.
The other could just be some rapid form of movement. Think WOW's mounts. Whether it's implemented as a mount, or (as someone else suggested) a speed bonus for travelling along a road, you're still in control, you can still be attacked, and you can still be chased. Even if roads have an "autorun" which actually follows the twists and turns in the road at increased speed, you'd still be able to stop moving at any time.
Personally, I really like the idea of double or triple movement speed along roads, and an increased/decreased speed based on what type of mount or vehicle you're riding. Of course, that would probably make high-level monks the best for carrying goods from place to place, but if you implement encumbrance, they'd only be able to carry small items and not wagonfulls.
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Distance can also be a limiting factor and would make a good escape rope if you get into troube. I hate how in other games if you accidently draw aggro you have to fight or die. And as a spell it costs mana thus it might be quicker but you won't find everyone skipping out on travel because it would cost all their mana to teleport just a few times.
Of course distance could also be related to how much mana you invest into the spell.
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Goblin Squad Member
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In general, I'm a big fan of the "click the map to travel there instantly, and you don't need to have been there first if it's a civilized settlement" school of Fast Travel. I also very much like the idea of different terrain types having an impact on movement, with roads significantly increasing travel rate.
I think if PFO uses ubiquitous instant travel, it will probably only be entirely within a civilized network, never crossing any "low-security" zones, such that it simply removes the tedium of traveling when that travel is really not subject to attack anyway.
If there are other forms of instant travel, like teleports, that allow the transport of commodities, I would hope they would bear some kind of cost that was based on the value of the commodities, so that you wouldn't make money using that as a means of getting goods to market.
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As I see it there should be no fast travel what-so-ever. It hurts many facets of gameplay. But that is just my opinion and alot of times we have to compromise. In the event we compromise (which I severely hope we don't) perhaps fast travel would be restricted to one city of the characters choosing (providing that the city grants him permission to teleport there) along with a VERY long cool-down timer (once per day, money should have no effect on how much one can teleport but on whether they have enough money TO teleport). Another option would be to allow the player to teleport back to there 1 house/temple of choosing. Finally (but my least favorite) perhaps teleportation between the three NPC cities would be agreeable. Finally, characters that teleport should only be allowed to teleport with what they are equipped with and perhaps a very limited amount of inventory. Also a debuff (i.e. teleportation sickness) should be added for 30 minutes or so.
But overall, I believe NO FAST-TRAVEL is better for the game, Zidash has ideas that would help make this easier which are much better for the game then just taking the simple route and adding fast-travel.
what if teleport allow only 25 lbs of material ?
ok, you can fast travel (just pay). You arrived here naked. your baggage will come with a normal wagon.
AND, if someone put a siege on a city, the fast travel for and from this city will be prevented
what if teleport allow only 25 lbs of material ?
ok, you can fast travel (just pay). You arrived here naked. your baggage will come with a normal wagon.
AND, if someone put a siege on a city, the fast travel for and from this city will be prevented
All of these could work as viable options, I especially like the one about sieging cities. When fast-travel starts to get in the way of Player-Versus-Player tactics that is when it gets annoying. When I plan a siege I want some confidence that my enemy can't teleport twenty people to aid them with the snap of a /tell. Perhaps if I'm ambushing an enemy legion, I want to be confident that they will not have reinforcements enroute in 5 minutes (unless I know they have a garrison or town 5 minutes away.) Perhaps Mages could put down a spell of anti-teleportation or something.
the logic would say so... if not, an entire country can teleport there for save a important city, or the capital, or a castle in a good position, and after 5 minutes be at their homes again
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as far a teleport the spell goes, the distance limit and limited number of memorized places are the restrictors and balancers, you can use teleport to escape the ambush of griefers IF you plan ahead and memorize accoringly but it can't be used to aid a city unless you're close by already.
As far as map travel from city to city, fast travel should be vehicles that can be stopped and atked, like carriages and boats(or airships if flying is allowed) these vehicles move faster then running everywhere but can't bypass an army or raiders.
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Goblin Squad Member
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My opinions are known...but were I part of the design team I would compromise by requiring fast travel to be PC made and driven. Want fast travel carriages? Sure, but some PC has first to train the ability to drive one, then needs to craft one...then they can run their business in person...including the driving of the carriage with all the passengers/cargo in the back.
And faster travel by no means equals instant or even quick...just faster (and the PCs do not necessarily have to be at their keyboard...would be like traveling in EVE except the AI is another player who is driving.)
I agree with your first paragraph, but I would make the increase in speed well worth the time and effort to create the vehicle. I would also limit instant travel between major city hubs, and it would have restrictions such as weight and frequency of use. Smaller cities and other locations could have a mechanism in place, but not instant. The only thing I would avoid is the early EQ mode of travel where your character would board a boat and would take almost an hour to get to the next stop, and this was the fastest mode of travel at the time.
I agree with your first paragraph, but I would make the increase in speed well worth the time and effort to create the vehicle.
Really? I wouldn't. It'd pay for itself over time with other people using it. This isn't a single player game where you build things to benefit yourself, but to benefit a market :)
Anyway,
So suppose you can fast travel (and it's FASTER than doing it yourself) - what about other players who want to explore for themselves and make the journeys for themselves? Should they lose out on time AND safety? I think fast travel shouldn't be in the game, and instead "Automatic Travel" should, whereby you travel there without any input from yourself, such as the carriage option - but it's slower than if you done it yourself, and less safe (give or take a few caravan guards you might decide to hire if you happen to be hauling say a weapon cache for your guild - worth protecting)
Why do I think there shouldn't be fast travel?
If there's fast travel to too free an extent, then there will only be one global market - with everything available anywhere. As such, territory won't be at all about varied markets with travellers and haulers and smugglers (which I feel are essential to a living sandbox world) but instead will simply be land for the sake of land. Maybe certain places have different resources available, but seeing as they can be purchased from anywhere with the ability to fast travel then the only thing that will matter in the market is money - not goods.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Argument in favour of fast travel:
1- Not wasting time moving through safe/boring areas to get to the action. The counterarguments seems to be "but with PvP, there are no safe areas". See (6) below.
2- Being able to play with your friends even though you log on different sides of the world. The counterargument seems to be "my idea of fun is more important than yours".
Arguments against fast travel:
3- Immersion(1): fast travel is unrealistic. Counterargument is that teleport, flight and summoning magic (mounts, phantom steeds) exist in the setting. So do oxcarts and river barges.
4-Immersion(2): crusader road is largely undeveloped and doesn't have magical infrastructure. Counterargument/solution: player made/unlocked fast travel. See below for my suggestions.
5- "Flattening" the economy from regional economies to a single global one. Counterargument is that transport costs depend on fast travel cost and inventory limits. It is still a good argument against global auction houses.
6-Highway robbery: some players want the ability to ambush travellers (especially AFK ones?). See below for my suggestion.
Suggestions:
A: Evolution and tiers of fast travel
*Initially only riverboats and barges along the river, possibly oxcarts/supply trains between key settlements (assuming road between them). I strongly support the idea of roads giving speed bonus along with a 'follow the road' command.
*as players carve out their own kingdoms, infrastructure should be added. Roads (different levels) between hexes is obvious, but coach services, pony expresses etc may also be viable.
*Spellcasters should be able to construct magical ways (summoned flying mounts, teleport networks etc). These should be very costly, as they essentially are risk-free (see B below).
*in my opinion, owners shuld be able to charge for fast travel, but the structures require significant upkeep. Ie. using a road could require you to pay a toll, but the road decays to lower level road unless repaired regularly (or if sabotaged).
B: Perils of travel
*i suggest coach services are implemented as automatic travel with a short travelling time (for the reasons of fun), order of 30 seconds (enough to grab a coffee but not to log off).
*on the other hand, anyone along a road should have an 'ambush' option where they are given a chance (based on skills?) to intercept fast travel along said road and engange passengers and guards in combat. (similar for river/riverboats).
*variants:
-may or may not be possible when noone is fast travelling (ie robbing npc passengers).
-ambushers may or may not get info about passengers (number, name/guild?) or owner of coach before choosing whether to attack.
-npc bandits or monster of course also ambush coaches!
*sustained robbery should have some consequences for the coach owner: loss of income, coach needing repair. Coach owner may post bounty on all bandits (attacked players of course can too).
*owner could have option to build upgraded coach service with stronger guards.
*as i see it, magical travel would be safe from robbery but at cost too high for everyday travelling and bulk cargo.
*the perils of goods robbed in transport would give an extra dimension of dynamic "pvp economics" (like in Pirates of the Burning sea)
If you managed to read all the way down here, congratulations!
As I see it the best compromise here is to give serious advantages to those who uses roads and mounts. If you travel in a caravan you go slower but perhaps you can log off and sacrifice speed for safety. I also believe characters should be able to choose "follow road" or board a barge/carriage/ or horse (with another person driving) and be able to go afk. Alongside this you could include a "home teleport" which would teleport you back home and could be used once a day or every other day. Although I'd prefer no teleportation, I realize compromises must be made. Teleportation should severely limit the amount of inventory your allowed to bring
Perhaps a player could pay a PC caravan to lug their goods to a particular destination for a price and their luggage would come a little slower. This luggage could be raidable but incentives would be given to the caravan leaders to protect it. It could even just be an individual Pony Express-style. A player could even utilize this even if they weren't going to fast travel if persay they just wanted to ship something for trade that a character had customed ordered or something. Once the luggage arrives on sight it could either go to the person's house/storage place/ or bank and wait there safely until they retrieve it. This system would allow players to quickly "Do business and have fun", not undermine the economy, and present a certain economic side of things. Perhaps caravan companies or individuals could insure the products they transport and such.
This system allows players to get business done quickly but also keeps the effects of the PvP system in place. Everyone wins and a vibrant part of an economy is created. Will caravan leaders or "Pony Express Riders" choose to deliver fast and risk ambush but get rewarded for speed on the road or is it more beneficial to make the slow trek through the wilderness and take the safer route? Perhaps it would be better to hire out guards or spend more manpower but also get the speed on the roads. Just like there will be bounty hunter guilds, I fully expect there would be "Caravan guilds" (i.e. Ice Road Truckers haha)
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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The only way I see fast travel not being broken is if strategic resources aren't carried on one's person. Mining doesn't consist of going to the mine and picking up pieces of ore, then taking them to the forge: It consists of going to the mine and activating the cart, which you then have to lead/push to the forge. If fast travel is prohibitively expensive, or not significantly faster than normal, it might as well not exist.
A different option might be "Fast(er) travel between signposts (only) and along established roads that are not contested by hostile forces or bandits." In that case, 'contesting' a road should involve simply being there and declaring the road contested. Once you were killed, you would have to return and declare the area contested again.
why treat fast travel special at all? just say soneone builds a coach or a bat then drives it. it is faster but nothing automatic about it.
I agree with you but lately the devs have been hinting at fast travel being foreseen in the game as of now. What they mean by that could be broadly interpreted, so yes we are making some assumptions. Now instead of trying to complain or moan about (not that I'm insinuating anyone has done that) we are trying to brainstorm ideas of what the devs could do to apply fast travel into PFO or why we think they shouldn't include it.
Anyhow, like I said before, I agree that it should be faster and preferably not automatic but I could understand if the Devs decided to include that automatic part of it.
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If. They include something beyond vehicles then,
Make teleport anchor rings, one can stand on a ring and cast teleport to teleport to a different ring. Make it expensive to craft these rings and you have to cast a spell consuming energy to use it or buy a teleport scroll if a noncaster.
Like you said, if, they have to include something like teleportthen I am at debate at whether money should play a factor in the teleportation method. If they include a teleport system for any reason at all (which I still am completely against) then it would most likely be in place for the more soft-core people who want to use it to speed up their time between fun and travel. That is the target group that the devs would be aiming for if they implemented this system. So I hesitate to put money as a requirement for teleportation. I would rather see a very heavy timer on the teleport and maybe a quest or something to be able to learn how to teleport.
They won't aim market and skill mechanics at a niche then choose their target audience as soft-core people who want their hands held...
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It all comes down to how exactly travel is important in this particular world.
Without more specific details on the risk of travel, distances, and territory control, I can only arbitrarily say that in general I lean towards not trivialising travel and reserving fast travel for rare situations.
All of that hinges on if it's justifiable in the game. Travel doesn't simply become important by removing fast travel and fast travel is only as valuable as the risks it's helping you avoid, the time it saves you and the value of its convenience.
Vanguard, as an example, struggled a lot with this in beta. Many of us were strongly opposed to fast travel and we watched the developers swing the pendulum back and forth trying to find the right balance. However, because of the lack of risk associated with travel on a pve server in the games release build, travel felt arbitrary.
It didn't add enough weight to the death penalty as they introduced ways for you to bind near just about any adventure area, it didn't introduce you to adventures you would have otherwise skipped over (often) and seemed to only increase travel times for the sake of travel times (which were eventually toned down anyway).
More succinctly, I'm opposed to fast travel that trivialises the risks associated with an open and dangerous world, but if in turn you offer safe roads that run the entire distance anyway, there might as well be fast travel as travel in that case is already trivial.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm against of any type of fast travel. I played alot of MMOs (UO, AO,EQ,EQ2, VG, now i got several active EvE accs), and i think its rather harmfull for the integrity of the world. It seems that dev's whant to have somthing like Eve transporting system,that will interact with the economics, so we can't have any fast travel, it will be absurdly.
I think we all agree that, in general, players should not be able to use easy fast travel options to move goods through an area they would not likely be able to go through without being robbed if they didn't use fast travel.
However, there is really no reason not to have easy fast travel if the fast travel simply moves you through territory you couldn't be attacked in anyway.
Note, that's only for easy fast travel. Non-easy fast travel, such as teleport spells with high costs, is an entirely different matter.
And actually, there is the possibility that easy fast travel might be allowed to/from areas where the goods would still need to be transported through dangerous territory before they got somewhere useful.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm against of any type of fast travel. I played alot of MMOs (UO, AO,EQ,EQ2, VG, now i got several active EvE accs), and i think its rather harmfull for the integrity of the world. It seems that dev's whant to have somthing like Eve transporting system,that will interact with the economics, so we can't have any fast travel, it will be absurdly.I think we all agree that, in general, players should not be able to use easy fast travel options to move goods through an area they would not likely be able to go through without being robbed if they didn't use fast travel.
However, there is really no reason not to have easy fast travel if the fast travel simply moves you through territory you couldn't be attacked in anyway.
Note, that's only for easy fast travel. Non-easy fast travel, such as teleport spells with high costs, is an entirely different matter.
And actually, there is the possibility that easy fast travel might be allowed to/from areas where the goods would still need to be transported through dangerous territory before they got somewhere useful.
Well technically short of cities I don't know of any part of PFO that is intended to be somewhere you can't get attacked. High sec is "unlikely to be attacked", mid sec is "could get attacked", and everything else is "highly likely to be attacked".
Of course can someone who plays eve actually explain the fast travel system in it? I've always heard major parts of the game described as dangerous transports from A to B, so I'm trying to learn what permits both that and fast travel to co-exist.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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I think the subject deserves a blog post in the near future.
I truly can't imagine how to make fast travel convienent enough for everybody without making it bypass a core mechanic, and still allow arbitrarily placed player-constructed cities have the same things that NPC cities get.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Fast Travel in Eve is from System to System, you still have to move around normally inside the system.
This is actually what made me realize that it's possible for PFO to have Fast Travel to Hex A from pretty much anywhere, but also require that nothing useful be immediately around the teleport point in Hex A, so that players would then have a significantly shortened trip to the market, but it would actually be more dangerous because bandits would congregate around the teleport point in Hex A and wait for people to pop in.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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So, there are sets of point that are a very shiort distance from each other, in terms of travel time, but those points are not always right next to the desired origin or destination? Or can fast travel be initiated from and to arbitrary locations, but not out of combat?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I may not have explained it very well. I just went over it again with a coworker that played Eve for several years (and never once got ganked).
When you jump into a system, you end up at a random location within a sphere around the jump gate. You are invisible for a limited time (not sure exactly how long, but plenty to fully load in and look around before anyone sees you).
In order to make another jump inside the system, you must have a destination, and get your ship pointed at it. Generally, if you're worried about bandits, you will select any destination that's generally in front of you. Once you begin maneuvering your ship for the jump, you lose the invisibility and are vulnerable. This is where ship maneuverability becomes important.
The initial invisibility is good (it may be better than any scanning tech, I'm not positive), but you're still in that space. If bandits are just spamming large-area smart bombs, you will take damage, and that might (can't remember) break your invisibility.
The key point is that you're most vulnerable at the Jump Gate, but there's a lot you can do to minimize your exposure.
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Goblin Squad Member
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You move from point to point within a system in EVE via uninterruptible (mostly) FTL flight. You don't fly point to point manually. The ships would take MONTHS to fly between in-system locations via manual piloting.
I get you I think
So if I'm interpreting this right symbolizing fast travel with -'s and slow travel with .'s
you can't necessarily go
A----------------------------------------------------------------L
but you can reasonably go
A...B---------C....D------E...F----G.....H------I....J-----K.....L
Or if you feel like spending a few months
A.......................................................................... ..L
Is that an accurate interpretation of it?
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Goblin Squad Member
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In EVE there are no instances. Some locations are always visible to all players. Gates, stations, celestial objects. Some locations don't actually exist until they are visited - PvE areas mostly. To reach any destination, you "warp" to a defined spatial marker via a form of point to point travel. You can't warp to an arbitrary point in space - you must have a marked destination or be going to one of the "always visible" points. You get those markers either via quest-givers, or by "scanning them down", a process of trial & error detection. Good players with highly trained characters and top-grade equipment can often do this in less than a minute.
Once someone visits a location, the server establishes a "grid" on which objects interact. If a PvE area is cleared, completed, or abandoned for a long while, it is removed from the game.
Because there are no instances you can potentially "scan down" a PvE site in use by another player, and gank them, steal their loot, or negotiate a ransom.
Jump gates (for system to system travel) and stations have a navigation option which allows you to "Warp to Zero" - appearing on the grid close enough to immediately jump or dock without being interfered with. If you elect to let the autopilot do your navigating you'll emerge just far enough away that an alert pirate could engage you.
Typically, on exiting a jump from another system you'll find no hostile forces close enough to your ship to engage. You warp to zero to reach a station or jump gate and are out of harms way. Usually you're in the most danger while in PvE areas - harvesting or killing mobs. Typically you would not see any hostile players until you willfully go to a lower-security zone (chasing the risk/reward curve). Occasionally, in areas of low-security space where it is practical, a group of pirates may establish a "gate camp" and try to engage ships as they enter the system. Expierinced pilots know ways to escape these traps (sometimes).
Even in lower security areas pilots have defensive maneuvers they can take if they notice the arrival of hostile forces. In no-security space there are equipment options that can drop a pilot out of point-to-point travel, and that's usually a really bad day. On th other hand you shouldn't be there in th first place without an Alliance to back you up when you call for help.
In EVE there are no instances. Some locations are always visible to all players. Gates, stations, celestial objects. Some locations don't actually exist until they are visited - PvE areas mostly. To reach any destination, you "warp" to a defined spatial marker via a form of point to point travel. You can't warp to an arbitrary point in space - you must have a marked destination or be going to one of the "always visible" points. You get those markers either via quest-givers, or by "scanning them down", a process of trial & error detection. Good players with highly trained characters and top-grade equipment can often do this in less than a minute.
Once someone visits a location, the server establishes a "grid" on which objects interact. If a PvE area is cleared, completed, or abandoned for a long while, it is removed from the game.
Because there are no instances you can potentially "scan down" a PvE site in use by another player, and gank them, steal their loot, or negotiate a ransom.
Jump gates (for system to system travel) and stations have a navigation option which allows you to "Warp to Zero" - appearing on the grid close enough to immediately jump or dock without being interfered with. If you elect to let the autopilot do your navigating you'll emerge just far enough away that an alert pirate could engage you.
Typically, on exiting a jump from another system you'll find no hostile forces close enough to your ship to engage. You warp to zero to reach a station or jump gate and are out of harms way. Usually you're in the most danger while in PvE areas - harvesting or killing mobs. Typically you would not see any hostile players until you willfully go to a lower-security zone (chasing the risk/reward curve). Occasionally, in areas of low-security space where it is practical, a group of pirates may establish a "gate camp" and try to engage ships as they enter the system. Expierinced pilots know ways to escape these traps (sometimes).
Even in lower security areas pilots have defensive...
The form of fast travel you mention is the basic movement of EVE due to the scale and simply the form of gameplay. I'd compare it to simply using a horse in Pathfinder.
I'm talking about fast travel on the larger scale, in terms of jump gates to other systems in EVE or town to town in Pathfinder Online. As far as the gameplay goes in EVE this isn't so much fast travel as much as simply entering a different area. The autopilot still has to travel via warp (horse) from one side of the area to the other before getting to move to a different area. Doing it manually is faster and safer, and you have plenty of opportunity to be attacked or raided on the way if you rely on the autopilot. EVE's autopilot is the type of fast travel I can see being successful where fragile economies are concerned. Too much freedom to fast travel by safer or faster means will mean just one global economy ultimately due to the ease of making an item economically available from the second it's been harvested.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well, if they add fast travel ala-EVE, I see portals being added at the edge of each town/city or section of road that "warps" you to the next. This still requires you to navigate towns and intersections and pick the road you want to take to the next town...I only hope this is not added by extension to the P&P Golarion.
Unfortunately, what will happen is some population of PFO will take to playing the P&P version as well and they will expect that there should be one of these portals at such and such place...and they should work as they do in the MMO game.
EVE has the explanation of cheap FTL drives/matter-energy converters and AI mathematician/navigator/pilots. I realize my appeal to RP reasoning may not concern most people, but a fantasy world with these same mechanics is a bit too high-fantasy for my liking...in a P&P game. If the rest of the game is good, I can live with it in an MMO (I assume they will be voluntary).
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Goblin Squad Member
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I realize my appeal to RP reasoning may not concern most people, but a fantasy world with these same mechanics is a bit too high-fantasy for my liking...in a P&P game.
I actually find the appeal to RP reasoning extremely persuasive and compelling. This is actually why I prefer the "Open the map and click on it to go there" school of fast travel. To me, that kind of travel should be instant or nearly so in real-time, but should be treated as if an appropriate amount of in-game time has passed. Because that's exactly how it would happen at the tabletop. Of course, in an MMO, you can't really make everyone else skip forward two weeks while you journey across the plains, but you can consume two weeks worth of travelling rations, and you can roll a suitable number of random encounter checks. I would really hate to see portals all over the place.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I realize my appeal to RP reasoning may not concern most people, but a fantasy world with these same mechanics is a bit too high-fantasy for my liking...in a P&P game.I actually find the appeal to RP reasoning extremely persuasive and compelling. This is actually why I prefer the "Open the map and click on it to go there" school of fast travel. To me, that kind of travel should be instant or nearly so in real-time, but should be treated as if an appropriate amount of in-game time has passed. Because that's exactly how it would happen at the tabletop. Of course, in an MMO, you can't really make everyone else skip forward two weeks while you journey across the plains, but you can consume two weeks worth of travelling rations, and you can roll a suitable number of random encounter checks. I would really hate to see portals all over the place.
Here is my concern with your suggestion, if you instant travel to the next town and I decide to run...we both consume all the same materials...but you do it instantly and my run takes 25 minutes. In that time you could have organized a defense (say if I was the vanguard of an attack). Why should you have been able to skip ahead to warn the town when we are traveling at max speed via mount? I am all for this sort of instant travel if you get a map screen that shows your progress via a dotted line for the 25 minutes needed to make the journey...most people however would just decide to play the run.
On the other hand, you can ask why we as attackers would run and not teleport...but now we are just using star trek like warping to the battlefield...it defeats the purpose of setting up scouts around your holding set up specifically for speed and stealth if the attackers can just warp to the town walls.