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So in terms of scale how big is this outside area compared to a Hex?

Slaunyeh wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
I thought the /roll command played a clip of Rick Astley...
I doubt the game will be ready for release in 2007.


But aye - a simple "/roll #" should be a simple enough thing to implement. They're probably saving it for the 1,000,000 level unlockable on the KS though.

I've said before and will say again - I'd pay extra not to have instancing.

Bread has never been so fascinating.

EDIT: Does Tony's itself handle removal of ... stale bread? Or do they only hire external garbage men for that purpose?

Dakcenturi wrote:
The problem is, being that it is a sandbox, if they want to stick close to lore without breaking it noticeably they are limited to where they can expand. Some of the above mentioned would make sense and work but not everything, especially near the area.

I dunno that river's pretty wide. Besides with the training system it should be possible to make ships incredibly rare so they don't clutter up all of the water space. You can limit them to only owners of ports as well. They wouldn't be everywhere but with expansions it would be great to see port owners setting their sights on commerce with other ports (and as such pirates setting their sights on said ships).

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Valandur wrote:

I actually thought about this. If your health regenerated at a slower rate when active, then faster when you rested (but still slower then most MMOs) and when you eat/ drink it regenerated quickly. That might be more acceptable to some.

It's an option to consider.

I don't like the idea of forcing a buff/debuff mechanic on people if it would cause such a divide, but I think that it's resulting in a denial of the many merits of food as a resource and necessity (and the complexity it adds to the game.).

Jiminy wrote:
When at war, the option to burn crops, destroy food stores, disrupt supply lines suddenly becomes a very important thing.
Being wrote:
I'd rather hunt the rabbit, skin it, and roast the meat over a fire. Keep a handful of salt in your kit. Everyone should have basic cooking skills. Forage up some wild garlic or onion. Uncover some volunteer potatoes in an abanoned farmyard. Roasting our game on a spit over a fire would surely bring an inquisative bugbear or two who smelled the roasting pheasent.
GrumpyMel wrote:

- It provides another form of input to the WEIGHT/INVENTORY MGMT game. That's an important aspect of play and of planning expiditions. The Designers have already stated that everything in the game (except coin) will have WEIGHT and characters will be limited in how much they can carry. They've also stated that weapons, armor and spells will ALL have some consumable components in order for the character to use them at peak efficiency and those components will all figure into your carried weight. Food/Drink will just be another type of input into that system which has game-play consequence.

- It's a character development game-play decision because it makes training in Survival or Cooking or learning spells to create Food and Water have some signifigance as a character development decision. Because that character can actualy reduce thier own (and thier parties) encumberances by not needing to pack as much food and therefore allowing more room for other gear. So instead of a training decision always being an obvious +1 to bonk with sword or magic blast variety #22. It's an actual more interesting game-play decision as in what to train in.

- It provides an interesting/important reason for characters to go visit INNS or spend a little downtime in camps, which can lead to greater human interaction.

- It makes the location of Inns somewhat important from a logistics standpoint.

- It also brings into gameplay (in the Mass Battles/Strategic perspective) the importance of food in Logistics in running extended millitary campaigns for players, and of course interdiction to counter those logistics. Again that'll already exist due to Weapon/Armor & Spell consumables being part of the mechanics of play. Food just adds another variety of item into that mix.

Basically I'm now looking for ways that food would be acceptable.

Also one of the arguments against food is that other things can serve its purpose better. I disagree - ; stuff like sharpening stones or armour repair kits only apply to specific people that use that equipment. Food would apply to everyone. Utility spells like summoning a bottle of water would have impact. In addition just having something that provides the purpose doesn't mean variety doesn't improve it. In this form potions wouldn't make food a pointless item. That's like saying "They have Goblins, guess there's no point in putting in Skeletons."

Rant over ^^.

I'd like to request subtitles in the future xD

Seeing as the game is Sandbox, one would have to consider that in developing Expansions (thinking waaay ahead) Goblinworks won't be having to spend time putting together a host of new theme park content. I imagine this means if there's enough demand for it, they'd be able to upgrade gameplay with stuff akin to this.

Losing gear promotes a feeling of power coming with risk, and only wearing what you can afford to lose. Games are too hand-holdy these days. I'd be happy even with complete inventory loss (but perhaps not full inventory gain for the looter) but the threading should make it more acceptable to most.

Question though - will gold be carried? Can I kill someone and loot his gold (or a percentage of, perhaps?)

What if health didn't regenerate automatically - and food simply healed? I dislike the whole health automatically recovering system in MMOs, but I'm sure most don't (although it would be more akin to the PnP).

Similarly, health could be divided into different types (similar to EVE). Energy (Shield in EVE) and Body (Armour in EVE). The Energy would regenerate automatically... your body on the other hand needs rest (an Inn), healing (Skill or Magic) or food.

Just some ideas. Food itself as a necessary item is a good idea from the siege warfare, gathering, market demand and money sink points of view. You guys just don't like debuffs it seems. Would this be more appealing?

Money sinks are necessary in a game that intends to have a fully living economy anyway. I think GrumpyMel is right in everything he's said it adds to the game.

Food also makes survival more challenging. It can dictate how habitable certain hexes are by how much food is readily available. It makes transferring food to these locations an extra thing to do - quest, guild task or whatever. It can act as a defense mechanism in this way as well, as maintaining a siege for any longer than the hunger limit will become increasingly difficult. People want immersive and realistic warfare and hunger is a massive part of that.

Paizo should look into time travelling and hiring Bob Ross :) Can't find much (read Anything)

I would rather see a debuff from not eating than a buff from eating, as much as they equate to a similar state in the end. More elaborate dishes could then give buffs as well.

Bounties, War-contracts/assassinations(ie a Kingdom putting up payment to anyone not in the kingdom who kills someone from another at-war Kingdom)? Orders for rare ingredients, protection while travelling.

These should take the place of quests.

I like Andius's idea in the form of Valandur's idea. Allows for looting said locations from other players. Just exists to create more to do in the sandbox, more immersion and more detail in the world xD

Very good read and a great time for publicity what with a Kickstarter that needs finished ^^

I'd like to see crafting that makes use of all materials in the world at the high end. Similar to EVE - all materials remain relevant throughout the game, and away from games like WoW where copper ore is reserved purely for low levels for example. Seeing that copper put to use even for forging crafting tools, moulds etc. would be better than it being reserved simply for new players.

As for minigames, has anybody played Jacksmith by Armor Games? For those who don't have the time to give it a try - it's all about blacksmithing. You smelt the ore, pour it into the mould, hammer the iron, position the pieces, and ultimately see the results in use. Long term, something along these lines would be fantastic in my opinion with the quality of effort affecting the end stats.

PS. The game is slightly addictive and proof of crafting being a fun venture. Play at your own risk xD

I'm curious about the direction that this game is heading. I haven't kept up to date over the last few months but as I look around I see a lot of people discussing Kingdoms and Army Formations and NPCs doing all the work for you ( I like being the one gathering the ore, making the sword etc.)

Now I think these things can be great in ways and can really add to the game but my question is this: Are we not slightly forsaking the small group of Adventurers that Pathfinder is all about? The small groups of people reminiscent of PnP games and parties in other MMOs fighting battles on small scales, that is.

Maybe I've just came back looking at the wrong time and am only seeing things this way for a reason. If so, feel free to point me in the right direction as to where I can find out more. I'm just worried that it seems to me the game is becoming more of an RTS than an RPG.

TL:DR - I still want the small scale battles (as well as the large), just me and a Goblin, maybe a few friends and a few more Goblins. Will this still be a massive part of the game?

I would pay double the subscription fee for the game not to have instanced PvP.

Onishi wrote:
For starters I would say it it is safe to assume that HP etc... has to level outside of this archetype, as otherwise it is impossible to keep a 20/20 on the same playing field as a 20 (obviously doubling a characters hit dice, creates a huge power variance). I cannot say with any certainty of what these bonuses are, but I would assume that it is likely their version of class abilities.

I'd say HP etc. will be their own set of skills to train entirely

Blaeringr wrote:
A squad of 24 rangers with +5 Dragon bane bows! Pew pew pew!

On such a note - I don't think this kind of tactic should make it *easy* to kill Dragons. Rather, it should make it *possible*.

For a WoW comparison, Molten Core, back when you needed specific armour with fire resistance to be able to even last in the instance. The fire resistance didn't make it easier... it was impossible without it. I'd like to see a similar approach in aspects like this.

cannabination wrote:

Name: <Browncoats> (Ok, I'm not married to that, but it just makes so much sense)

Alignment Axis:
LG|NG|CG: (We're not going to disqualify you for being LG, but if you play it right it might be challenging to rise up in an organization who relies on seedy elements at times)
LN|TN|CN: (As above with LN, and CN would be expected to follow the tenents of the guild, if you're in, you need to be in)
LE|NE|CE: Sorry, don't trust you.

OOC Structure: This is a merchant guild run by a council comprised of the members in charge of the branches in the 6 largest cities we inhabit and the guild leader with the tie-breaker.

RP Level: Softcore, I expect. You'll be expected to adhere to the tenets of your character and not spout OOC in public, but I definitely won't expect everyone to want to speak in accents and use archaic language.

IC Structure: Corporate Republic(is that a thing?).

Purpose: Exploration, opportunity, and freedom.

Information: IC Summary.

First off, this isn't a guild like the others mentioned. We have no desire to have our own city, perhaps a stronghold, but would rather exist in the cities of other guilds. Our main goal is to facilitate the economy of every city we inhabit to the benefit of all(us a little more, but the basic theme is that we're benevolent... not trying to unbalance and exploit). Our secondary goals include all the tenets of Desna, so we uphold exploration, free will, and the assistance of distressed travelers. Our intention would be to be invited by guilds to bring our economic stimulus and stability to their areas by offering superior raw materials as well as crafted goods acquired through the skills of our members.

We will have places for virtually any skill set, as we will need crafters and gatherers of all types, people to explore and find new resources and contacts, people to transport and sell goods, and people to protect these shipments as well as the roads and people on them. The idea would be to hand out recurring quests(assuming that is possible) to...

Definitely interested in being a Browncoat

Nihimon wrote:

*clicks refresh*




*clicks refresh*

Imagining this to the sound of Here I Go Again On My Own by Whitesnake for some reason.

Nihimon wrote:
Zidash wrote:
Nihimon wrote:
I really like the idea of "local" voice chat too, where I can speak into my microphone, and everyone nearby can hear me. Hard to implement a Profanity Filter on that, though...

Sorry to blow this one out of the water but no. Mainly for immersion problems.

You're walking through the forest and come across a small inn sheltered in a forest clearing. You've just been hunting deer and hope the keeper here will pay a fine price for them. Outside, you pass a fair elf maiden and decide to stop to chat. With the crackling voice of a fifty year old chain smoker in some barely recognisable accent, you are told, "#@~& off."

Feel free to substitute the elf maiden with a on aged old wizard and the voice of the fifty year old chain smoker for a prepubescent squeak. Either way - bye bye immersion.

How is this significantly different from text-chat? Granted, it's insignificantly different in that you hear the voice and accent. Is that really significant? When a text-chat can just as easily say "Dude, you're like totally ghey, neo-maxi-zen-dweebie, get lost, Spongebob."

I remain unconvinced that either is fundamentally more or less conducive to immersion than the other.

You don't have to hear text for a start. This is advantageous in so many ways to people who need the volume down, who like to listen to music, or are on voice chat elsewhere.

If someone is saying all that in text, you can tell at a glance not to read it. You aren't forced to read it, and you can skip it and pay attention to the RP around it. If they spam, you can easily ignore them.

If someone is doing it in voice chat however you might not know they're talking bull immediately. They may be talking over other people, and multiple people will be talking at once as it is. Even between a group of people intending to RP talking over each other will be a problem due to latency. Seeing as it's voice chat you can't go back and re-read what was said if you didn't catch it.

KitNyx wrote:
...well, people do not have to use the voice chat.

By this do you men they can disable listening? But that gives many RPers a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario. They're missing out on an aspect of RP if they disable it, and they're listening to immersion breakers if they don't.

I can definitely see the use of voice modulators and/or voice clips pre-recorded from a viable source.

Modulators... If it was done well sure why not - but it won't be, accent will still play a massive part, and it's a lot of unnecessary computer resources on something that might have next to no volume because they're just barely close enough to hear at all.

Pre-recorded voice clips. Isn't this the bane of RP in MMOs? RPers complain about how these games are too limiting in what you can do. Giving anything more than a small selection of generic sayings (and considering the race/class/age combinations - it will be small) like this will just aggravate players more at the lack of variety. It's better to create your own immersion from text from the getgo than to have a lacking attempt at essentially theme park-esque clips.

If people want voice communication, keep it out of the in-game RP scenarios is all I'm saying. It's a useful external, tactical or conversational tool otherwise.

Nihimon wrote:
I really like the idea of "local" voice chat too, where I can speak into my microphone, and everyone nearby can hear me. Hard to implement a Profanity Filter on that, though...

Sorry to blow this one out of the water but no. Mainly for immersion problems.

You're walking through the forest and come across a small inn sheltered in a forest clearing. You've just been hunting deer and hope the keeper here will pay a fine price for them. Outside, you pass a fair elf maiden and decide to stop to chat. With the crackling voice of a fifty year old chain smoker in some barely recognisable accent, you are told, "#@~& off."

Feel free to substitute the elf maiden with a on aged old wizard and the voice of the fifty year old chain smoker for a prepubescent squeak. Either way - bye bye immersion.

How is this different than the Alliances in EVE?

KitNyx wrote:
Zidash wrote:
KitNyx wrote:
I would say the only evil here was the character who was willing to betray those who trusted him. Evil characters could make a good living doing the dirty work the good characters can't do.
The massive problem here is that many players may view this as griefing and as such it is possible for that entire side of being evil to be prevented in the game at the whim of Goblinworks.
I actually think this is the type of player content Goblinworks will be trying to encourage. Jim was able to recall this story because it was something that impacted him and for good or bad, it changed the story of the game for many people...and the devs did not have to spend any time creating it.

Aye, don't get me wrong - hopefully that's the case and I would love to see this type of player content encouraged. Personally I don't see a problem with it, but at the same time Ryan has said that he didn't intend to follow in CCPs footsteps in regards to viewing griefing as a feature. I'm in a state of cautiousness as to what is and isn't regarded as griefing by Goblinworks at the minute.

KitNyx wrote:
I would say the only evil here was the character who was willing to betray those who trusted him. Evil characters could make a good living doing the dirty work the good characters can't do.

The massive problem here is that many players may view this as griefing and as such it is possible for that entire side of being evil to be prevented in the game at the whim of Goblinworks.

One of the main problems with traps and in particular abilities that allow the user to scout out traps is that they're always in the same place in Theme Parks.

I remember specific rooms where traps were known to be in WoW and it was a simple matter of avoiding them. Detecting them was never useful, disabling was pointless.

With the potential for randomized dungeons (I imagine they will be modular sections put together at random based on what Ryan has said however he has in no way actually stated this and it's just an assumption) then that means that traps and looking out for them will always have the potential to be a fun element to every dungeon.

TerraNova wrote:
Many players want ridiculous sizes. Looking at popular MMOs, most have "group enemies" many times the typical player size for very practical reasons: Players feel more important, while at the same time, the enemy is not completely hidden by PCs, so it can still be seen, targeted, ...

As long as it specifically is only creatures that are supposed to be large.

World of Warcraft's human bosses twice the height of normal men is one of my greatest hates.

Don't give an alignment choice and there will never be a problem of acting out of alignment.

Simply let players do whatever it is they want in the sandbox scenario, other people can judge their alignment.

At the most, have an alignment stat that changes based on our actions so other players have a good idea of what each other are like.

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Screw realistic physics and being smart about what is or is not possible. It's simple -

Can we push/shove/knock and be pushed/shoved/knocked about?

Can massive things squish proportionately smaller things?

Nihimon wrote:
I would think the most telling statistic would be what percent of WoW users run on Macs.

Isn't WoW a completely different target audience especially since they've been giving everyone everything on a stick and they're going down the line of hand-holding?

I'd say EVE's Mac userbase is a much likelier measurement in regards to the mentality of the gamers it appeals to. Personally I think the Sci-fi versus Fantasy setting difference is less important than the essentially genre difference of "interactive world simulation" vs "BIG SPIKEY ARMOUR AND DRAGONS IN YOUR FACE BUT ITS OKAY YOU'RE ALWAYS SAFE." I could be wrong xD

Anyway if what I guess is right, then I'm sure no one knows those numbers better than Ryan.

We still use miles in Britain if it counts for anything :) Unfortunately the text in a game isn't really a character interacting feature but more for the players clarity. It's unlikely everyone will carry a world map around with them at all times, so I wouldn't get too fussed on which system they use to measure distances.

In saying that - I haven't played many games which even mention distance in such terms. Makes the world seem too small if a city that's supposed to be 3 miles away can be walked to in ten minutes... (even accounting for the everlasting running capabilities of most game characters)

Nihimon wrote:
I'm trying to think of which Apocalyptica songs I've heard are covers, and I can't think of any...

They're pretty much famous because of their covers of heavy metal into their symphonic style. They have an entire album of Metallica covers.

Valuable lesson learnt from the Sandbox Ecosystem diagram by the way -

The People Who Make have coins pointing at them from both directions.

That is all. xD

Great Blog post! A few things pop out though -

Ryan Dancey wrote:
These are the classic set-piece adventuring experiences of many tabletop games. Call them "dungeons" for the sake of discussion. You will find these areas using abilities; once located they'll spawn on the map and be findable by anyone who travels to the correct location. If they are cleared, or if no character interacts with them for a fixed amount of time, they'll be removed from the game world automatically.
Ryan Dancey wrote:
Most of the PvE content that you encounter will automatically be removed by the game after a certain period of time passes without any player interacting with it. In this way we can constantly present you with places to adventure that are fresh and ready for the PCs to venture forth and earn riches and glory.

Am I to believe that this means dungeons will be randomly generated in the interests of replayability?

Is this (along with the fact that you state Modules are likely instanced) also a confirmation that dungeons are not instanced or is an instance provided for anyone / any group who is capable of finding one before they despawn?

I quite like the idea of scouting out for dungeons - do the occasional one that I can alone but every so often finding one with incredibly powerful monsters and rushing back to town to find a group capable of taking it down.

As for the abilities used to find them - will this be similar to player input based tracking (such as the scanning in EVE) or will it just be an ability you click and it locates nearby ones on a map.

Ryan Dancey wrote:
Wandering monsters: These are creatures you may encounter as you explore the world. Typically, the further you are from civilization, the more dangerous the monstrous creatures you'll encounter. These creatures are spawned into the game randomly, and if left unmolested for a certain period of time, they'll automatically despawn.

This line kept popping up throughout your post - "The further you are from civilization..."

Now that sounds interesting. Will it adapt to account for player made civilization or will these distances be pre-defined zones of hexes based on the world at launch? (ie similar to WoW zones and their unchanging level regions of repetitiveness)

Will I maybe log out in a low-leveled monster zone and come back a month later to find that the nearby tower was destroyed and dragons now reign?

Also in the Sandbox Ecosystem graphic the 'People Who Make' have transport listed under them. Does this mean player based fast/ auto travel will be available?

Finally - You frequently compare hexes to EVE Solar Systems in the forums which brings up one concern for me. Is the world all one world ? Basically -

Will I be able to walk from one side of the world to the other without a loading screen or using fast travel of any kind if I so wished?

Will I be able to see a neighbouring castle from mine if I challenge my pc by setting the draw-distance high enough?

Sweet ^^

Arbalester wrote:
DarkLightHitomi wrote:
it would be interesting for armor to account for the different dmg types
For a weak example, but the only one I can think of, look at Runescape. There are three main ways to do melee damage: Slash, Stab, and Crush.

I'd like to see a rock, paper scissors element like this with armour that's good, average and bad against each attack type.

Rock, paper, scissors is always great. No one thing is the right answer. Situational is always win. (and by forcing players to specialize or be a jack of all trades, it means tactics play a bigger role as well in terms of simply pitting the right people against the right targets)

10PM here then... almost thursday xD

Nihimon wrote:
It's not up yet.... *sniff*

If what Caineach said is accurate there's another 6 hours to go ^^

Mark Kalmes wrote:
We're going to stay connected to the community the whole time. We're definitely not secretly doing anything.

Definitely preferable to secretly doing nothing ^^

Does anyone know a list of metals in the Pathfinder universe? Can't seem to find one. Hopefully they're all accounted for in the game.

Seriously guys stop bumping =) *purr*

Hudax wrote:
I wonder if there will be auto-attack in this game?

I hope in the name of [insert Pathfinder deity here, preferably a nasty one good at retribution upon those who annoy it] that there is not.

sunbeam wrote:
But things like Guild Wars or WOW don't really scratch my itch anymore. I want my wizard to really fly this time. Or get to use an actual flying carpet or wings of flying.

WoW had this...

Granted - it also had the problem of a tiny tiny world in which an overnight flight (Arathi to Wetlands) takes around 20 seconds.

Didn't help that the trees were probably fifty times the size of real trees making forests seem that wee bit (read stupidly) tiny.

On top of that things like Karazhan - big tower in the wilderness. Before flying? Great, yeah. Big tower in the desolate wilderness where sunlight is rare and rain is rarer. After flying? Stones throw from Zul'Gurub, rainforest troll city.

I don't want to see flying at release - makes the world too small - but if it's ever considered as a potential feature Goblinworks, start accounting for it now? =)

Ryan Dancey wrote:
... your character will revive at a specific location that you've helped predetermine. Determining this location is a process we call "soulbinding." You will be able to select the location that your character is soulbound to, but only certain locations have the requisite soulstone needed for the binding. The distance between the location of your dead husk and your soulbinding point will often prove meaningful.

Will these locations be possible to build? If so what is there to prevent the defender in a siege scenario having an essentially unlimited supply of troops having built one in their town - especially seeing as after dying once in a fight and losing your inventory you have nothing else to lose.

Is it desirable to even have a way of preventing this or would that be gameplay as intended?

Burdock wrote:
Just wondering if there is any info on where they are currently with the game. If they are using the Hero engine, have the started re-coding it for this world?

They are not using the Hero engine. Well they might - it hasn't been decided. Nor has any of their middleware at least to our knowledge. In summary - no code beyond prototypes if we're lucky I imagine.

As for an Indie company... they're looking for investors and have the support of Paizo thus far so unless they do some weird and wonderful marketing techniques I don't think we can call them one.

DarkLightHitomi wrote:
Well this fast travel system just killed the game for me(not entirly but close enough)

The fast travel system Pathfinder will be using wasn't actually disclosed. Just the information that it should never take longer than half an hour to get to a bank.

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