Fair and Level Gaming for a Party Six Characters


Homebrew and House Rules

Grand Lodge

So, I have a game that I am currently running and I am looking for a medium to hard challenge for a group of six Characters that are all level 2 possibly level 3 by the time they get there. I know the main villain is going to be a Wizard ( Conjurer ) but I am unsure of what level I should put him at. From what I am understand the APL for the party would be 4 because of adding the 1 for six or more party members. I am looking for the wizard to be hard enough to give them trouble because he is one of the BBEG's for this part of the quest I have given them. Also I am thinking about adding several goblin minions as well as 2 bugbears for fun.
My Thoughts where as follows

Wizard Level 6
18 Goblins
2 Bugbears,

Do you all think that this too much for this party?
If so please give me your feed back so I can make it a fair and level playing field.

Shadow Lodge

In my opinion, this fight is fair if two conditions are meet.

1) The party actually hits level 3 before the fight.
2) The party knows not only that they'll be fighting a wizard tougher than themselves and his goblin minions. That way, they can prepare for the fight ahead of time (if they're smart enough to do so).

Without that, and maybe even with that, this fight would be to tough without some considerable luck.


I think it is fair. The best way for CR vs. APL to work is when you add creatures.

Keep in mind that the difficulty of this fight has a LOT to do with the wizards spells and how many he casts before it starts.

If the party has a couple of plate mail archers that can ignore minions and walk up to pump the wizard full of arrows, this is cake.

If the wizard cast bulls strength and haste on his bugbears before the party gets in, and then deeper slumber on the party once they scatter into melee so the goblins can slit their throats, that's another story.


it can be tough. the party should have a way to have tactical superiority from the begining, if not 18 arrows aimed to a single target could be death sentence.


This probably belongs in "advice" not "homebrew."

That said, think about your party first and foremost. What do they do well? What have they shown good ability to fight? This does more than just affect what you can expect them to overcome, it also affects how you arrange what you are going to use.

If your party is short on "battlefield control" then 18 of anything can make for a really bad fight. If you have a wizard, sorcerer and alchemist in the mix, then a phalanx of 18 goblins can be a nice hurdle. If those 18 goblins are all hiding behind trees, pillars, crenelated walls and things, then the party has no advantage still, and it means that the party is simply going to have to weather 18 attacks a round. At level 2 or 3, this means that at even 1d4 damage, 18 attacks is likely to kill someone before the fight is up.

If your party has a few good bruisers, then a smaller number (3-5) of toughs that don't deal great damage but look intimidating can do the trick just fine. Bugbears with armor and maces or morningstars can do this. The conjurer could summon an awesome damage dealer in the fight anyway, if the party doesn't pressure him well.

6th level wizard has access to 3rd level spells, which can somewhat hose the party if used cleverly. With so many minions, the BBEG is likely to get his desired complement off under normal circumstances, and since you are expecting him to die, there is no motivation to make him "hold back." One method might be to build in a way for them to surprise him- a back door or information on a time of day when he's vulnerable for a bit (negotiating with evil powers, bathing, gardening, whatever). His minions could warn him, so he's not caught fully with his pants down, but he's not in as good of a position as usual. The party will also feel awesome for having taken advantage of that.

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